Weds - Mavs draft #18. Mavs do 31/Jax for Tucker?
Thurs - Mavs do THJ/Wright/DFS for Hayward
Later - Use MLE for DG after buyout?
(11-17-2020, 04:08 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]That's an extreme overpay. Hayward is basically only a solid starter right now. He's not a star. He's now 30. I'd rather trade for Tobias Harris on his awful salary then trade any decent asset we have for Hayward.
Everything so far has been an extreme overpay. I don't want Hayward simply for the fact that he and KP are just way too much of a injury liability.
I'm in Camp Buddy Love. He's way more potent than THJ on offense.
(11-17-2020, 04:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward averaged 1.7 points per game more than THJ last year and is 3 years older. He's a better defender for sure but THJ is the better shooter.
I think it's about as close to even value as you can get. And if you say you want THJ because of GH health concerns I can buy that 100%.
The reason I'd even be interested in Hayward is he gives you comparable offensive production to THJ, better defense and he plays wing. That means more time for Curry and Brunson at the guards. He fits a bit better.
This is where I’m at. I would like to think He’s providing something that’s THJ cant(wing defense) even though he’s older and more injury prone. Can he be a more efficient scorer in Dallas next to luka? Probably. And that could tip the scales.
hope they wouldn’t have to give up a ton more.
(11-17-2020, 04:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward averaged 1.7 points per game more than THJ last year and is 3 years older. He's a better defender for sure but THJ is the better shooter.
I think it's about as close to even value as you can get. And if you say you want THJ because of GH health concerns I can buy that 100%.
The reason I'd even be interested in Hayward is he gives you comparable offensive production to THJ, better defense and he plays wing. That means more time for Curry and Brunson at the guards. He fits a bit better.
I'm telling you now, once you mix in the idea that Hayward can RUN THE OFFENSE, the comparison ceases to be "equal."
And I DEFEND THJ all the time here.
(11-17-2020, 04:13 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The deal would be like THJ/DFS/Wright
THJ+Wright is enough. The only problem is that Wright is a negative contract here going their way. That is why I think a draft compensation will have to be included. Or better player.
(11-17-2020, 04:15 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Weds - Mavs draft #18. Mavs do 31/Jax for Tucker?
Thurs - Mavs do THJ/Wright/DFS for Hayward
Later - Use MLE for DG after buyout?
1) I think DFS included in the Hayward trade is completely unnecessary....
2) ....and the Mavs need DFS for the trade up to #10 to Hayes.
(11-17-2020, 04:11 PM)Drew Wrote: [ -> ]So would a THJ plus stuff for Heyward be a pretty even swap?
Will the Mavs be better? I Think THJ would help the Cs.
Having Luka and Hayward on the floor together is having two elite passers on the floor at once and makes the Mavs offense vastly more complex and harder to defend than what we saw last year. Especially late in game situations. He was a better offensive ball handler for Boston than Kemba was.
I'm a huge Hayward stan from his Utah days. I think his injury problems are a bit overblown because it's been some flukey injuries like broken hands and high ankle sprains, rather than injuries that are directly correlated to his broken ankle ... though a guy who can't stay on the court is always a concern. The big thing I disliked about Celtics Hayward to me was his confidence was bad, and there were some nights where he just doesn't have it or not seeing it and it's like you can't get him off the court fast enough. But that might also have to do with the fact Boston had so many wings it was hard for him to ever establish a defined role, and particularly after they brought in Kemba to dominate the ball.
(11-17-2020, 04:15 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:08 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]That's an extreme overpay. Hayward is basically only a solid starter right now. He's not a star. He's now 30. I'd rather trade for Tobias Harris on his awful salary then trade any decent asset we have for Hayward.
Everything so far has been an extreme overpay. I don't want Hayward simply for the fact that he and KP are just way too much of a injury liability.
I'm in Camp Buddy Love. He's way more potent than THJ on offense.
This is a bit different tho. Hayward isn't a massive upgrade over THJ. I think he's a quality starter and not much else.
Holiday is a 2 way difference maker. Covington is a defensive difference maker.
If Hayward is worth multiple picks, THJ is worth a pick and we should be selling for a future 1st ha. That'd free up flexibility for trades
In my prev scenario you draft 18 to replace DFS. Hayward is your upgrade over THJ. DG would immediate replacement for DFS if you could make that happen (buyout?). Tucker would be worth 31 and could be a good stand-in for KP while he's out but also play with KP potentially when he's back.
A few points regarding Hayward -
1) I do not see him as a "3rd star." Given the combination of his injury history/decline/etc., I see him as a very solid starter. If KP is an iron man from his return on out, then Hayward is an adequate 3rd-best player. If KP continues to miss 20% or more of each season's games (not counting the beginning of '20-21), then you're in trouble if Hayward's role is above that of being your 4th-best player.
2) Right now, the Mavs have four starter-quality players - Luka (franchise), KP (good enough skills-wise to be Robin, hopefully his health lets him do that), and THJ and DFS, who are each potential 5th-best starters on a contending team - DFS with an obviously-better contract and fit.
3) Before Hayward or any other moves, the Mavs' condition is that of needing to add a bare minimum of one starter for sure. They can use some of their bench guys in trade to do that. However, if THJ is outgoing this year, then they need to add two starters. If DFS is included in any deals, they need to add three starters. *No teambuilding that includes playing current bench guys as starters.*
4) My point is, if you sink assets and a hefty contract extension into GH, how are we getting our other starters? Especially if THJ is included in trading for him? My personal answer to that question is, if you're getting Hayward, you'd better have a pathway to getting an equally-good player to put alongside him, Luka, and KP by the beginning of the 2021-22 season as well.
I assume that a sign-and-trade acquisition of Hayward means that the Mavs can operate over the cap and use their full MLE. That would likely get them a decent additional starter, but not a guy as good as what I'm talking about.
Hayward for Hardaway and Powell(played there before and was good)
No picks involved. Fair to me. Both teams get better
(11-17-2020, 04:18 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:13 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The deal would be like THJ/DFS/Wright
THJ+Wright is enough. The only problem is that Wright is a negative contract here going their way. That is why I think a draft compensation will have to be included. Or better player.
Well, maybe the deadline extension is about identifying a suitor for Wright and finding something THEY have that could go to Boston. No way to know.
God, the NBA is crazy.
(11-17-2020, 04:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]if you sink assets and a hefty contract extension into GH
Realistically there will be no assets lost other than THJ in the scenario that I like and think is possible.
Makes no sense to give up both DFS and THJ for a one year rental of Hayward. Mavs would need to replace 60 minutes in their starting five. Hayward gets 30. Where do the Mavs find another starting wing for the remaining minutes?
(11-17-2020, 04:08 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:00 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 03:58 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]What's a package that would make sense for Hayward? That would definitely be a big splash move for the Mavs.
They'd probably want him but I have a hard time giving up Maxi right now with our severe lack of depth.
18+31+DFS+Curry+filler
That's an extreme overpay. Hayward is basically only a solid starter right now. He's not a star. He's now 30. I'd rather trade for Tobias Harris on his awful salary then trade any decent asset we have for Hayward.
That's a bold statement, my friend.
(11-17-2020, 04:16 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward averaged 1.7 points per game more than THJ last year and is 3 years older. He's a better defender for sure but THJ is the better shooter.
I think it's about as close to even value as you can get. And if you say you want THJ because of GH health concerns I can buy that 100%.
The reason I'd even be interested in Hayward is he gives you comparable offensive production to THJ, better defense and he plays wing. That means more time for Curry and Brunson at the guards. He fits a bit better.
I'm telling you now, once you mix in the idea that Hayward can RUN THE OFFENSE, the comparison ceases to be "equal."
And I DEFEND THJ all the time here.
And what Hayward brings with his defense and playmaking which we do need... THJ brings the shooting advantage over him. THJ made about 2.5 times the amount of 3s GH made last year.
I think the swap makes perfect sense for both sides. Arguably Boston needs less playmaking and more shooting. And Dallas needs more playmaking and less shooting.
The only reason this is being discussed now is that if you read the tea leaves it would suggest GH is trying to maneuver his way somewhere. He may not even know where either. I do buy he wants out.
(11-17-2020, 04:18 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:13 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The deal would be like THJ/DFS/Wright
THJ+Wright is enough. The only problem is that Wright is a negative contract here going their way. That is why I think a draft compensation will have to be included. Or better player.
So ya I think if you do THJ/Wright you might need to do a future first or something. Otherwise DFS might need to be included as an asset for the Celts. Celts could try to play hardball but even THJ/Wright is better than letting Hayward walk for nothing.
There isn't any deal that we win, unless they take Wright or maybe even Powell. Losing THJ + 1 of DFS, Kleber or Curry. I think Hayward is fine, but not with losing 1 starter + another starter or important part of our rotation. I might throw in #31, but thats about it. Do we really get better by losing our best defender on a good deal + THJ for Hayward?
BOS is desperate and they will lose him for nothing. Either to ATL or next year in free agency without getting a single asset. I don't see the overall point in trading for Hayward as a rental tbh. You can still get him in free agency next year.
THJ/Wright/#31 is my offer (maybe #18). I wouldn't want to lose DFS who was basically our 3rd best player in the playoffs in any deal. Neither our best shooter in Curry. Nor Kleber.