(11-07-2020, 12:09 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2020, 10:27 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2020, 10:12 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2020, 09:11 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Assuming it is true, that part about CP3 can make you think. Not the part about Dallas having interest in him but the part about him having zero interest in us. While we hype ourselves how close to contending are we, an all nba player doesn't like his ring chances if he comes to Dallas.
Can I unlike this? (Because it is spot on and I don't like that.)
I'm pretty sure we are not a first grade contender as we are constructed today.
But with CP3 fitting in and being his last season self and a good MLE-signing we would be.
There are many reasons for him not to join us. It's not just his chances of a ring.
That's why we have to find the guy who wants to be here.
So, the good news is that our generational talent is 21 years old.
The bad news is that our generational talent is 21 years old.
Everyone should go look at guys like Lebron, MJ, Kobe, etc, and see how long it took them to A) make the playoffs. B) win the championship. It's going to take longer than some think. The Mavs will very likely not be true contenders before Luka signs his extension. That's just how it is, my dudes.
What I find concerning about the CP3 thing, if true, is that it would mean the Mavs really want to find a shortcut. What could a 38 year old possibly have in common with a 21 year old, and why would you want a guy who NEEDS the ball to play with a guy who NEEDS the ball? I've been all about a secondary playmaker, but I'm starting to wonder if the Mavs literally want a POINT GUARD. I, personally, love Luka playing the PG position.
Assume the Thunder are happy with Brunson + #18 + #31 + future 1st + Wright + Powell + THJ.
You could open a short window and then still have max cap space to open a new window before you have to max Luka in 2022.
That likely means two year MLE for Gallinari. Minimum for Melo. Likely have Lee, Burke, JJB and MKG back....
That´s your two year team...
CP3/Burke/JJB
Doncic/Curry/Lee
DFS/Melo/Jackson
Gallinari/Kleber/MKG
Porzingis/WCS/Boban
Then in the summer of 2022 you only have
Porzingis 34
Luka caphold 25
Kleber 9 (fully non-guaranteed)
Curry 8.5 (expiring)
You know what I´m starting to think Giannis should sign that 1+1 with Milwaukee next summer, then he call pull a KD after we beat him in the 2021/2022 NBA finals. 
All jokes aside this almost makes scary sense with the usual MBT thinking, full win NOW mode, no care for young assets, bring back every single veteran on the roster, but still maintain flexibility for 2022.
Just a question whether you can get over the first hurdle of the Thunder agreeing to a trade.
You would have to take this, if it is possible.
(11-07-2020, 11:56 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]The reason I like to think about the legit-ness of a source is because I enjoy trying to figure out what the Mavs are thinking.
So much this.
People are not taking this guys ideas as a fan spit-balling. He is claiming to be an insider with real info and insight.
For instance why this matters:
Now we have people on this forum questioning whether the Mavs are close to contending or if anyone wants to play with Luka because this anonymous guy on a internet forum like us says that the Mavs are desperate and want CP3 but CP3 wouldn't go to the Mavs.
My take on CP3 and the Mavs:
I don't think the Mavs would want CP3 and his locker room alpha anywhere near a developing Luka. That feels like the by far more likely scenario.
Would CP3 make the Mavs better? I believe so. Are the Mavs contenders with or without him?? In either case, I don't believe so. That doesn't mean we aren't up-and-comers. League competition will be stronger next year with GSW and the Nets. If CP3 doesn't want to be here, that's understandable and completely fine. He has MAYBE a few good years left and he probably wants a surer bet than the Mavs if he is ring chasing.
As far as the insider goes, I have zero faith that he has any insider knowledge but that's also fine. His dumps are another point of conversation.
(11-07-2020, 02:17 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]His dumps are another point of conversation.
Totally cool with this and I am not suggesting his words shouldn't be shared. But I do think it is important that people see them as ideas and NOT as data points or facts as we try to discern what the Mavs might be up to.
(11-07-2020, 02:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2020, 11:56 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]The reason I like to think about the legit-ness of a source is because I enjoy trying to figure out what the Mavs are thinking.
So much this.
People are not taking this guys ideas as a fan spit-balling. He is claiming to be an insider with real info and insight.
For instance why this matters:
Now we have people on this forum questioning whether the Mavs are close to contending or if anyone wants to play with Luka because this anonymous guy on a internet forum like us says that the Mavs are desperate and want CP3 but CP3 wouldn't go to the Mavs.
My take on CP3 and the Mavs:
I don't think the Mavs would want CP3 and his locker room alpha anywhere near a developing Luka. That feels like the by far more likely scenario.
CPME knows Luka should control the ball. I don't think that is a slight to Luka if he didn't want to come here. I 2nd your statement.
(11-07-2020, 02:04 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Now we have people on this forum questioning whether the Mavs are close to contending or if anyone wants to play with Luka because this anonymous guy on a internet forum like us says that the Mavs are desperate and want CP3 but CP3 wouldn't go to the Mavs.
It was me who opened that discussion and it was just that - something to talk about. I clearly said it is just that. You can agree or disagree with it. Why would you think it would be wrong to discuss the take he had about CP3 not wanting to go to Mavs? Totally same hypothetical discussion we have here all the time.
[quote pid='41612' dateline='1604775845']
People are not taking this guys ideas as a fan spit-balling. He is claiming to be an insider with real info and insight.
[/quote]
This is just my opinion, I am not preventing anyone from anything. I think it is impossible to find out if he is legit or not, because he is posting what is (supposedly) being discussed. As none of us have any insight what is really being discussed, we also don't have any way to prove if he is connected or just making stuff up. Therefore it will always be just one subjective opinion against another. Killer thinks he is connected, you think he is full of shit. I explained in my discussion with Fifteenth why I think it is impossible to deduct what Mavs think from his writings - him being legit or not has no impact on this. If he is not legit, his writings still are nice ideas to discuss - stuff we are discussing about anyway and sometimes something new is brought up. If he is legit and even if everything he says is true, he still doesn't provide enough and just parts of conversations that anyone would be able to deduct what Mavs REALLY think.
(11-07-2020, 02:31 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]But I do think it is important that people see them as ideas and NOT as data points or facts as we try to discern what the Mavs might be up to.
Totally agree with this. Personally I never said I believe (or not) what he is saying.
(11-07-2020, 02:39 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]CPME knows Luka should control the ball. I don't think that is a slight to Luka if he didn't want to come here. I 2nd your statement.
I don't think we should or could trade for CP3 this offseason, because he is too expensive. But I think this take is just wrong. CP3 was not primary ball handler in Houston and he wasn't "controlling" the ball in OKC. He at least equally shared the task with Schroeder, who actually had much higher usage rate, and SGA. In theory I think it would be great if Luka could share a bit of his offensive burden and I think Mavs need this unless we are trying to become "Harden era Houston" 2.0. CP3 was not the problem in Houston. It was Harden who couldn't accept totally justified critique that he should share the ball a bit more. So it is Harden with the "ME" problem, not CP3, imho. Another example were Clippers, where I again totally understand his critiques against unserious teammates like DeAndre and to an extent Griffin.
I see him as extremely competitive player with high basketball IQ and I think Luka would work with him greatly. Luka is smart, competitive and (I think and hope) he is not selfish as Harden. That's why he wouldn't have any problem with CP3 and he would be able to learn a lot from him like the OKC guys had. But to conclude again - I think there is zero possibility CP3 comes to Dallas and I wouldn't trade our assets for him, as it would take too many.
Philosophy wise, what I would really love to see is Luka stop dribbling up from one end to another every time. I think this energy he spends into this is not equalling the level of his talent. He should get the ball in the final third on almost every play and run the show, it is here his talent can be used the most, and his energy. This strategy would also neglect any ability of the defense to double team him high up, mid court or even on our side.
Is there a keyword for this type of PG that helps the primary one? One that dribbles up the court and then in the final third or around the arc, first then passes it over to your primary creator on offense that will start run the plays? This is what I would love to see from our new SG for instance. And in case the defenses double Luka to prevent him getting the basketball in the final third, this SG should have enough playmaking skills to take advantage of this. Here is where I think Bane would be enough. He has more creativity and playmaking and ability to penetrate than THJ to take advantage of this. In addition, I would really like to see from any new potential SG we could get to have some of these skills, but the key would be defense and 3 point shooting.
(11-07-2020, 04:55 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/maver...hird-star/
Quote:Townsend's report included another important nugget: the Mavericks want to move into the lottery. They have the ammunition to do so. They're close enough as it is at No. 18. Golden State's second-round pick is arguably more valuable than a late first-round pick, as it is not subject to the rookie scale. If absolutely necessary, they do have tradeable future first-round pick in the bank: their 2027 selection, which is the only choice available thanks to the Stepien Rule's interpretation of the protections on that 2023 pick. Throw in a player or two and the Mavericks should have some options here. The question is how high they can go.
No. 8 is probably the ceiling, if the Knicks are still even willing to deal with them after the backlash from the Porzingis trade. The New York Post's Marc Berman has reported that they are open to moving down. They'd probably love to get their hands on Curry as well, given the lack of shooting around RJ Barrett and Mitchell Robinson. That is unlikely, but a picks-based trade is plausible here, especially if Dallas is willing to remove the protections on the 2023 pick they already owe New York.
Phoenix at No. 10 is rumored to be preserving cap space. A trade down might make sense, especially if they're targeting one of the many 3-and-D players in this class.
Sacramento has lost so much draft capital in recent years that moving down from No. 12 to recoup some of it makes some sense for new GM Monte McNair.
Who would Dallas target in the lottery? Their roster construction would point to another 3-and-D wing. Both Florida State wings, Devin Vassell and Patrick Williams, fit the bill, and they, along with Isaac Okoro, are the players in that group that Dallas would probably need to move up for. Players like Aaron Nesmith, Desmond Bane, Josh Green and Saddiq Bey all make sense, but the Mavericks could probably get one of them at No. 18.
The wildcard names to watch here would be the big men. Damian Lillard exposed Porzingis' weaknesses on the perimeter so thoroughly in the bubble that a look at Onyeka Okongwu might be warranted. Obi Toppin would be not only a replacement for Powell, but an all-around offensive upgrade. But both come with weaknesses Dallas probably isn't interested in covering up, and both would become redundant on a Giannis team. Expect them to settle for one of the 3-and-D wings wherever they land based purely on need. Their trade options are significantly more complicated.
So that "Supes" guy on the Hawks website is claiming that Hayward is a two horse race between ATL and BOS. If true, this means the DAL connection was smoke to put pressure on one of those two parties.
Quote:There is no other team in the picture other than Boston. The price point [for Hayward] is too high for everyone it seems outside of us which makes sense if you are going to overpay someone in FA.
Mavs are like GSW. They are dropping smoke all around. One day it is trade up, next day it is trade for a star or almost a star. I find both options good. The question is, what if none of those two will be available? Draft the picks and run it again or look for "mediocre" upgrade by attaching picks to Wright, Powell and similar for a better fit. So trades for guys like Richardson, Schroeder and similar. I think I know Kamms answer
Personally I would go vet upgrade way, if available.
Removing protection from 2023 pick is an interesting idea. Besides adding value it would also "free" 2025 pick to be traded.
(11-07-2020, 04:55 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/maver...hird-star/
Thanks for sharing this.
One of the more interesting points they make is that a trade with NY for #8 could involve something that uniquely helps both teams -- the future protections on the pick Dallas already owes them. Not only could that have some value to NY, but it also frees up Dallas to trade their own future picks more easily without the Stepien rule getting in the way. So a base offer of 18, 31, and removing protections on the future 1 (likely with some other player included) to move up to 8 might be a really interesting move.
(11-07-2020, 05:24 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think I know Kamms answer
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/nbX5NnozM2C97haytR/giphy.gif)
(11-07-2020, 05:27 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]So a base offer of 18, 31, and removing protections on the future 1 (likely with some other player included) to move up to 8 might be a really interesting move.
If Killian Hayes is there at #8 I am ALL IN!
Quote:As badly as the Mavericks might want another star, it's worth pointing out that, for now, they probably don't need one. They just had the greatest offensive season in NBA history. The marginal value of another elite scorer is pretty limited. Typically, that value would come through staggering. Normal teams need more production when their best player goes to the bench. Dallas doesn't. The Mavs outscored opponents by 4.1 points per 100 possessions when Doncic went to the bench. They should absolutely plan to add a third star eventually. Three stars are better than two. But why pay assets for an underwhelming star now when you can just sign a better one outright in a year? .... Dallas doesn't need to jump the gun.
It needs defenders that won't get in the way of their historic offense. Such players are significantly more attainable without getting in the way of anything else the Mavericks might do.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Pretty much what I've perceived in Team Play. Injuries derail many of the 2019-2020 potential (DP pop achilles, Curry getting sore leg, Lukas scary-roll-ankle in Miami game) that we would of saw a different ending to this season. Still the team produce so much, even without Doncic. The third star will be there eventually in 2021, but its most important need is defenders, that won't take away the offense that it produce last year.
(11-07-2020, 05:33 PM)FunkBoreland Wrote: [ -> ]Pretty much what I've perceived in Team Play.
Yep I loved that part as well. I thought this author made a lot of sense in his analysis of the Mavs.
(11-07-2020, 05:24 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]They are dropping smoke all around. One day it is trade up, next day it is trade for a star or almost a star.
If dropping smoke is what he (Donnie) did with when he ask for THJ, then his repeating the same for this offseason. And if has to run it back again with just the draft picks and the same players from last year, I'm sure his going to drop smoke looking for a trade midseason.
BTW, whats to happen with Justin Jackson?!?!
@Kammrath or he just read this forum
there is a lot of good points made here.
(11-07-2020, 05:27 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]One of the more interesting points they make is that a trade with NY for #8 could involve something that uniquely helps both teams -- the future protections on the pick Dallas already owes them. Not only could that have some value to NY, but it also frees up Dallas to trade their own future picks more easily without the Stepien rule getting in the way.
There is perhaps another way to "free" that 2025 pick. Trade down with OKC, which only pick this year is #25 yet they have a gazillion of picks in next seasons with probably more coming.
My idea is: #18 for #25 and OKC worst 2023 FRP (I think they have plenty).
(11-07-2020, 05:41 PM)FunkBoreland Wrote: [ -> ]BTW, whats to happen with Justin Jackson?!?!
Salary filler in a trade imho. If no trade happens, they will keep him and perhaps cut him after TDL (unless he shows considerable improvement, of course).
(11-07-2020, 05:41 PM)FunkBoreland Wrote: [ -> ]@Kammrath or he just read this forum there is a lot of good points made here.
More sports writers would have better things to say if they did.
My thoughts on some players mentioned in previous posts.
Melo: He does not want to come off the bench. He is black hole on offense and does nothing for me on defense. So a HARD NO.
Gallinari: He would be a nice addition, but he does not put us over the top. I say pass unless we can get him on the cheap (read vet min or at the most MLE).
Dragic: I would love to have Dragic and I think he would have signed for the MLE to play with Luka if Miami would have won the championship. Now I am pretty sure he will stay with the Heat to try to win a championship.
Bertrans: You cannot not have too much shooting, especially when you have Luka. Bertrans for the MLE is a pipe-dream as the Wiz will probably pay him around $15M a year.