MavsBoard

(10-23-2020, 06:20 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What was the story about eating salary to get a star.

Conley = Salary
Gobert = Star

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(10-23-2020, 06:29 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2020, 06:20 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What was the story about eating salary to get a star.

Conley = Salary
Gobert = Star

Is Utah really that desperate to get off of Conley's last year of 34M?  I guess if Gobert has indicated that he will not resign...

How much of the 60M incoming do you need to match?

Trade NBA says:  THJ, Maxi, Seth, Wright works (also works if you included Powell).  How many future first do we give up?

No way this happens.  haha

You are probably right, but to answer your question, we’d need $48mm in outgoing salary.  You’d be sending THJ, Wright, one of Maxi and Powell and S&T Lee to make up the rest.  Utah would save $12mm (which would take them from $117mm in committed salaries for 11 players to $105mm in committed salary for 13 players).

Edit:  Dallas would have to be careful how much salary is created by a Lee S&T as it would be possible to take them to the LT in a deal this big.  You might add Jackson at $5mm and bring back a lesser costing player to hold down Lee's number.

I can think of few worse fits for Dallas than Gobert. I suppose Drummond or Whiteside would induce slightly more vomit, but not much.

(10-23-2020, 07:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Utah would save $12mm (or would be able to use the MLE and avoid the tax).

No way that deal is close to realistic. Utah will not use Gobert just to dump Conley. They can save money by moving either of them separately, if they want. If I am them and doing this deal, I would be definitely demanding DFS, Brunson, Curry, Maxi and THJ plus both picks (and I still don't see a point of Utah doing it). Is Utah really still hoping to be a contender with this trade? I don't think our lot + MLE is nowhere near the "contender value" Gobert and Conley have. They get a huge hole on the center position. 

As it is, they have 117 of committed salary for 12 players, which leaves almost 15 million for Clarkson. Depends on how much he will cost, they can sign rookies and stay under tax. 

In any case, if I am Utah, I definitely try one more run with this lot. If trading Gobert is a must, I would explore trade for someone like Hayward + Williams+picks. Perhaps Chicago (OPJ+WCJ+#4). Perhaps Clippers and PG.

If I am Dallas, what would be the point of paying all our role players (I don't believe THJ+Maxi+salary fillers are going to do it) and picks for two expiring contracts? We can't upgrade them at TDL, because we will have absolutely nothing left to sweeten the deal. Next season is basically Gobert or GA. And if it is not GA, we are screwed. I don't want to pay max for Gobert. Even if he signs for less, he is not a great fit and we have nothing else but basically vet min to add to it (Conley can resign at reduced number). 

I'd say a hard no for something like that. I think trading for Oladipo would be much less risky and fill a bigger position of need.

I am ALL IN on Gobert if he is actually attainable. I was before he was drafted and STILL am now. 

If people think Kemba could have found a fit in DAL, then Gobert is infinitely easier. 

There is NO WAY he hurts the defense even if people think neither he nor KP can guard the perimeter (which I think is a vast over simplification). And he has been a consistent offensive positive in his career as well. 

I am confident that RC would figure out how to make it work in the playoffs. Gobert has never played with guys like Luka/KP.

Not worried. Get the TALENT and figure it out. 

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(10-23-2020, 08:31 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think trading for Oladipo would be much less risky and fill a bigger position of need.

I mean, sure, Gobert would be cool as a consolation prize if they can’t get Eric Dampier out of retirement.

I am thinking of a straight swap of KP for Gobert. Would.you do it? Bad fit if we end up getting GA. One advantage that others are not seeing if we get Rudy for spare parts is we can flip him for more assets if the fit isnt good

(10-23-2020, 08:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, sure, Gobert would be cool as a consolation prize if they can’t get Eric Dampier out of retirement.

(10-23-2020, 09:00 PM)swaggerbox Wrote: [ -> ]I am thinking of a straight swap of KP for Gobert. Would.you do it? Bad fit if we end up getting GA. One advantage that others are not seeing if we get Rudy for spare parts is we can flip him for more assets if the fit isnt good

How about Zydrunas Ilgauskas?

(10-23-2020, 09:00 PM)swaggerbox Wrote: [ -> ]I am thinking of a straight swap of @"KillerLeft" for Gobert.

 

FIFY 

(10-23-2020, 08:53 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I am ALL IN on Gobert

We have fundamentally different view on the game. Remember Utah-Dallas game. Dallas was killing Utah as long as Gobert was trying to guard KP on the perimeter. Once they switched him on DFS, so that he could just be in the paint, they were ok. Now Dallas would basically have two such players, that need to stay under the rim to be effective. The trade would basically leave Mavs without anything left. I really don't understand how you can emphasize what a flight risk Oladipo is, while you just assume equally expiring Gobert will be here to stay... The difference - in the first case Mavs will have good players left while in Gobert case, they will have Luka and KP and nothing else.

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(10-23-2020, 08:53 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Gobert has never played with guys like Luka/KP.

Well, neither did Oladipo.

As for Gobert defense - check how worse his defensive stats get in the playoffs

If it’s a KP for Gobert swap you want, I can almost guarantee Utah would take that without hesitation, despite KP’s injury. 

Gobert is the better defensive presence, obviously, but he is not a max player in the current game. Utah knows this, and what’s worse is that Gobert KNOWS Utah does want to max him. Go and follow his Twitter account if you don’t believe me. You’ll find some passive aggressive tweets about how undervalued size has become, all stemming from the negotiations for his next contract. I would imagine Utah feels like they’re between a rock and a hard place, knowing they shouldn’t pay him like that but scared to death that someone else might. He’s like two years away from being the next Whiteside.

Meanwhile, KP, not the defender Gobert is but definitely not useless on that end, is better by far at literally every other skill involved with the sport of basketball. He is a max player, and he’s locked into a contract for years. A Gobert for KP trade would elevate Utah tremendously while simultaneously removing any uncertainty they have about their future. I think people would be shocked what Donovan Mitchell could do with the space KP provides.  

I don’t think there’s any chance Dallas would even consider it.

(10-23-2020, 08:31 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-23-2020, 07:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Utah would save $12mm (or would be able to use the MLE and avoid the tax).

No way that deal is close to realistic. Utah will not use Gobert just to dump Conley.  

 
In any case, if I am Utah, I definitely try one more run with this lot. If trading Gobert is a must, I would explore trade for someone like Hayward + Williams+picks. Perhaps Chicago (OPJ+WCJ+#4). Perhaps Clippers and PG.

I don't think any of us think this is likely.  Same with everything else we talk about here.  I'm just trying to fill in puzzle pieces and see if they make any sense.  I'm a buyer if I'm Dallas.  But, the question you are raising is regarding Utah.

I take it you think Conley has positive value?  I don't see it.  One way or another, Gobert is gone in a year.  I have no idea how difficult this environment has been on small markets in general and Utah in particular.  Under normal circumstances Utah would certainly try to get value.  For all we know "value" might include saving a few million dollars.   Why else would Cuban cast out the lure if he didn't think there was a chance a fish would bite.

I do disagree with the kind of value you envision Gobert drawing.  There is no way Chicago gives up WCJ and #4 on the hope Gobert re-ups with them.  I think Boston is more likely to bet on their culture and Utah would more likely want to send Gobert there than LAC or Dallas.  But, I suspect the deal won't be overly rich.  Even with their winning culture, they won't have a guarantee without an extension.  

BTW, an extension is an interesting question...Gobert would be eligible for about $30mm.  If you are him, do you take the bird in the hand or hope you can find someone to give more in a year.  Where he stands on that question will go a long way in determining how much return Utah can get for him from any particular team.

(10-23-2020, 11:30 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]One way or another, Gobert is gone in a year.  I have no idea how difficult this environment has been on small markets in general and Utah in particular.  Under normal circumstances Utah would certainly try to get value.  For all we know "value" might include saving a few million dollars.

Gobert is a VERY interesting case with all the new dynamics at play.

I definitely doubt UTA sits on its hands and just lets him walk in a year.

(10-23-2020, 06:20 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What was the story about eating salary to get a star.

Conley = Salary
Gobert = Star

Just saying, IF the Jazz really want to get rid of those guys, and somehow for whatever reason send them Dallas's way for anyone short of KP and Luka, the Mavs could be walking into free agency the year of Giannis with the potential for multiple max contracts.

Lets say Utah really wants Maxi, Seth, Delon, and Jackson for Conley+Gobert. Next summer, the Mavs payroll will be 58 million. After the Mavs renounce Conley and Rudy, the Mavs could have close to 50 mil in capspace. That's enough for Giannis and another 20 mil player. 1 Powell trade the Mavs could offer 2 max contracts to any two of Giannis/Kawhi/Lebron/Rudy/Lowry/Hayward/PG. Luka+KP plus 2 superstars sounds good enough to me

Super interesting avenue to take. And I think Conley/Gobert solve plenty of the Mavs issues. But I think it's a pie in the sky fantasy. No way does Utah gift 2 impact players for spare parts, even if there is locker room issues.

(10-23-2020, 11:30 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]But, the question you are raising is regarding Utah.

I actually covered both sides. If the trade value is something like THJ+Powell+Lee SnT, sure I do it. I mean, this is a price to get rid of Powell contract only. I don't see any way Utah does it. I sincerely doubt 12 mil of savings beats dumping useful Conley for useless Lee. Unless Mitchell is refusing to come and play if Gobert is on the team, it makes no sense for Utah to take such a crappy deal even if Gobert is walking after the season. Their team was built to win now, I don't see why they disband it a season early and start over. As Dallas, Utah can also be looking to be a player in 2021 free agency, which will be more difficult with Powell contract on their books. With Gobert and Conley gone, they have max space. With Powell on the books, they don't.

If the price is like THJ+Curry+Maxi+DFS there is no way I do it if I am Dallas. 

(10-23-2020, 11:30 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Why else would Cuban cast out the lure if he didn't think there was a chance a fish would bite.

Who knows if this is the fish he was catching  

(10-23-2020, 11:30 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I take it you think Conley has positive value?

Nope, I don't. However, it has to be noted Conley was actually very good in the playoffs, which is what is important for them. Who knows what Utah could do if they'd have Bogdanovic. It is certainly cheaper (from team building point of view) for them to use something else than Gobert as a sweetener to get rid of his contract, if they want to. This is like Knicks using KP to dump their bad money. Would perhaps Milwaukee prefer him over Bledsoe? Philly would pay money to get rid of Horford. Sacramento might use a mentor next to Fox instead of Hield. Perhaps Chicago would look to save some 2021 cap (Sato+Young). How about vet for a vet like Griffin or Love? 

(10-23-2020, 11:30 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Gobert would be eligible for about $30mm.  If you are him, do you take the bird in the hand or hope you can find someone to give more in a year.  Where he stands on that question will go a long way in determining how much return Utah can get for him from any particular team.

This is exactly same question Dallas will have. Are you looking to pay for a one year rental? Than you don't care what he demands after the season, but you also don't pay a lot. I am ok with THJ, Powell and a pick for a rental, but I doubt Utah is, as covered in first part of my argument.  If you are looking for a long term cooperation, are you really prepared to pay full max to him in his age 30 season? I am not.

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As for KP-Gobert fit, I just don't see it. They would need to go against LeBron-Davis (unless you have KP running around Green or KCP). I don't think we would have any chance in this match up. Neither of them is good enough offensivelly to cover up for defensive mismatches. 

Than you have Clippers. If you have Gobert on Zubac, KP could have to choose to guard between Kawhi, PG, Williams and Bev. Best case, they don't go "small" ball and he is on Morris.

Gobert doesn't fit with KP and he certainly doesn't fit with dreams of Giannis. Him getting traded could only really benefit the Mavs if they got involved as a third team.

The only reason I can see substance to this Twitter following is that it coincides with the time that the owners/players seem to have made significant progress in establishing the parameters for next season. Both owners would be specificially interested in the luxury tax situation. So it could be that the two owners said: if this becomes official, then we do this deal.

As for the deal itself. I think it would indeed be Gobert and Conley. The Jazz probably made the decision to pay Clarkson/Mudiay, because the team played better without Conley for the most part. They are much more age-compatible with their star player, too. So why bother to drag it out another season and pay a truckload in salaries. Therefore a salary reduction must be in the cards for the Jazz.

The Jazz have genereally proven to be very proactive, when making decisions about players, so it´s very possible they have already decicded the fate of Gobert. Furthermore there is the possibility that the Gobert - Mitchell+teammates COVID incident is still lingering over the locker room. Maybe the Jazz owners held a private meeting saying: Okay you all shut up about this, play hard, and then we will find a solution in the summer that satisfies all parties involved.

From the Mavs POV, if you are moving all in for Gobert you might as well grab the PG the Mavs always fancied. Also you´ll probably be able to re-sign him for cheap as a veteran next summer.

Now we need a trade. Given that $60M are coming in (Gobert/Conley), it´s almost the whole team anyway. General thoughts:



DFS is not involved. He´s the only SF on our team. Utah has O´Neale, Bogdanovic and Ingles. So no need to press for him either.

Mavs also insist on keeping Curry+Kleber.

THJ has to be in this for the money and he won´t be re-directed either. He has proven fairly useful off the ball.

Justin Jackson will be in this to make the money work. Neither team cares. He´s expiring.

Maybe the Mavs will use their $6M and re-direct Jackson to a team with capspace. Got it. Jackson/Boban/$6M in cash to the Hornets.

Utah will be very thin in the front court, so they´ll probably not be as repulsed by the idea of keeping Powell as a veteran back-up PF/C. On the other hand Powell has the bad injury and his contract is a year longer than that of Wright. I´d say it´s 50/50 what the Jazz decide, but I already have a deal for Wright in mind, so they Powell.

That deal will ultimately cost the Mavs Brunson as a dealmaker. Brunson,Wright  will go to Detroit for Khyri Thomas.

So the full deal woud be

To Dallas

Gobert
Conley
Thomas

To Utah

THJ
Powell
#18 pick
future 1st round pick (top 6 protected)

To Charlotte

Jackson
Boban
$6M in cash

To Detroit

Brunson
Wright

If you moved that many chips into the middle, you can´t even stop there. You got to pay the full MLE. Probably has to be a perimeter defender, although you probably still need another shot-creator and shot-maker. You get Gallo you probably have to do it, otherwise Dunn makes a lot of sense.

New Mavs roster:

Doncic/Conley/JJB 
Curry/Lee/Thomas
DFS/Gallo/X
Porzingis/Kleber/MKG
Gobert/WCS/X

The positional/starting situation between Conley and Curry would be pretty fluid. Given how BIG the roster already is and how questionable the depth at guard (JJB/Lee/Thomas), you probably fill the two remaining roster spots with guards.

Oh and yeah you know how boring this off-season has become to make such a long-ass post based on a social media following.

(10-24-2020, 05:28 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]New Mavs roster:

Doncic/Conley/JJB 
Curry/Lee/Thomas
DFS/Gallo/X
Porzingis/Kleber/MKG
Gobert/WCS/X

WCS got traded I think.

(10-24-2020, 08:26 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-24-2020, 05:28 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]New Mavs roster:

Doncic/Conley/JJB 
Curry/Lee/Thomas
DFS/Gallo/X
Porzingis/Kleber/MKG
Gobert/WCS/X

WCS got traded I think.

Nah I kept WCS. I messed it up in the trade details, cause at first I had WCS going to the Hornets, because he´s younger and made more sense. Then I realized that means we´d have another stiff C in Boban, so I decided MJ is dumb and will do Boban instead.