MavsBoard

One player I forgot all about was Glenn Robinson III. I remember his name was mentioned as a potential trade target at the deadline before he ended up going to the Sixers. He has the Michigan connection with THJ/Burke and that's gotta be a recruiting advantage. He would also be another player whose father played in the NBA along with THJ/Seth/Brunson. I feel like the MBT loves players with those bloodlines.

Treating the roster going into the offseason as if it were an injury report:

ACTIVE: Luka, KP, Bobi, Maxi, Curry, and DFS.

PROBABLE: Powell (ugh!), Brunson 

QUESTIONABLE: THJ, Lee (because of the Mavs' reports), Burke (he and Brunson could be flip-flopped), WCS, 31st pick

DOUBTFUL: Jackson, MKG, 18th pick

OUT: Wright, JJB

DGAD: Reeves, Cleveland

Quick question. If Demarcus Cousins is willing to sign for the minimum or 1/2 MLE. Are the Mavs interested?

(09-05-2020, 04:30 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Quick question. If Demarcus Cousins is willing to sign for the minimum or half the MLE. Are the Mavs interested?

He'd be a more interesting and arguably better prospect than say WCS at the minimum. He won't play a lick of defense but he could provide to be a good offensive piece for the bench.

(09-05-2020, 04:50 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]He'd be a more interesting and arguably better prospect than say WCS at the minimum

People are REALLY selling WCS short. He showed the ability to rim run with Luka (93.5 percentile and 1.46 PPP as roll man with the Mavs) and be a switch defending big. I will be VERY disappointed if he doesn't come back for another shot.

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(09-05-2020, 03:54 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Trade targets:

Lonzo Ball / Jrue Holiday

I would definitely add these two to the trade target list of mine.

(09-05-2020, 05:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-05-2020, 04:50 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]He'd be a more interesting and arguably better prospect than say WCS at the minimum

People are REALLY selling WCS short. He showed the ability to rim run with Luka (93.5 percentile and 1.46 PPP as roll man with the Mavs) and be a switch defending big. I will be VERY disappointed if he doesn't come back for another shot.

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(09-05-2020, 03:54 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Trade targets:

Lonzo Ball / Jrue Holiday

I would definitely add these two to the trade target list of mine.

Yeah, I wouldn't be interested in Cousins at any price. What he does (DID, really) offensively isn't a fit here. And, even when he was healthy he didn't run the floor, didn't seem engaged, etc. 

I don't know that I'm ready to call WCS a perfect fit, but he sure is the TYPE of player the team wants. For one thing, he can run. Transition D is constantly overlooked by fans as a given, but it's actually the most important part of defense and the reality is that MOST bigs hold their teams back simply by getting smoked up and down the court (this is one of the reasons Boban doesn't play more).

As Kamm said, WCS is the type of 5 who can switch more often, so they'd be able to play less of this horrendous "drop coverage" that's making these big guys look like morons.

I trust Kamm's eyes for stats, but I don't know that we've seen yet that WCS has Powell level hands or IQ with rim-running. Can he learn the timing of when to come off the screen like Powell? Can he learn the nuances of creating just the right passing angles? Can he catch non-perfect passes and adjust to complete the play? Personally, I don't feel like I've seen enough yet to know, but I'm pretty excited to find out. I'm hopeful. 

And now we learn that he's been shooting threes all day everyday? Gee, I wonder who advised him to do that???

Basically, the guy is the type of center Carlisle covets to fit into the plan here, which is why it's ludicrous to suggest the player and coach already hate each other. In my opinion, they traded for him to get a head start on teaching him the system and to get him started with their excellent player development staff. What I see is a dude focused on the things he's been advised to improve in order to carve out a role here (or anywhere else playing modern basketball, for that matter). If he leaves, it will be because some other team offered him more money than the Mavericks can or are willing to offer, not because he hates Carlisle, and frankly, I don't think anyone will offer more than what he's got on that player option. I think next year is a golden opportunity for him to use this system to gain a better foothold in the league, and I bet he knows that. 

Oh, and Ball/Holiday is EXACTLY the type of piece this roster desperately needs. I can't see Ball being available, but I'd be surprised if Holiday wasn't available for the right price. I also feel like I'd much rather be here than in New Orleans, if I were he. His career is on a different timeline than that team. Throw in a ton of leaked Mavs interest from the past and I think you have a situation that's worth watching.

I'd like to add Jerami Grant to the wish list, please. Thanks.

(09-05-2020, 10:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to add Jerami Grant to the wish list, please. Thanks.

We had Jerami Grant week before you found the site.  He was generally well received though some perceive he might get more than the MLE.  Denver does have a glut at the position with Millsap (also FA) and the emergence of Porter.  

On a different topic, on the Bobby Karalla and Skin Podcast today Skin identified a playmaker who can play D and hit an open shot as the team’s biggest need.  This came out of a discussion of Burke.   He was basically saying we need a better version of Burke, especially in late game situations.  He said Brunson, who he likes,  doesn’t have the speed to be that.  

He identified Marcus Smart (more as an archetype than a realistic option).  But what was described certainly applies to Holiday too.  Chuck Cooperstein recently identified Holiday as someone the team should pursue.  Point being two guys who spend an awful lot of time with the team think a second creator is very needed.

(09-05-2020, 06:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And now we learn that he's been shooting threes all day everyday? Gee, I wonder who advised him to do that???

If you’re talking about that video tweet, those shots looked long range, but they were from just outside the paint. If there is something else, my bad, carry on.

I like the thought of WCS, but he didn’t play much of any role when he got here. If RC is gonna trust him on the floor more going forward, I’m all for him.

(09-05-2020, 11:14 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-05-2020, 06:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And now we learn that he's been shooting threes all day everyday? Gee, I wonder who advised him to do that???

If you’re talking about that video tweet, those shots looked long range, but they were from just outside the paint. If there is something else, my bad, carry on.

I like the thought of WCS, but he didn’t play much of any role when he got here. If RC is gonna trust him on the floor more going forward, I’m all for him.

Perhaps some of you all have observed that I've been a hardcore WCS apologist since he got here.

(09-05-2020, 11:14 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]If you’re talking about that video tweet, those shots looked long range, but they were from just outside the paint. If there is something else, my bad, carry on.

I like the thought of WCS, but he didn’t play much of any role when he got here. If RC is gonna trust him on the floor more going forward, I’m all for him.

Good catch on the one the Mavs tweeted. He's actually been posting his own videos since the bubble games started, and some of them have definitely been three point practice.

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(09-05-2020, 11:13 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-05-2020, 10:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to add Jerami Grant to the wish list, please. Thanks.

We had Jerami Grant week before you found the site.  He was generally well received though some perceive he might get more than the MLE.  Denver does have a glut at the position with Millsap (also FA) and the emergence of Porter.  

On a different topic, on the Bobby Karalla and Skin Podcast today Skin identified a playmaker who can play D and hit an open shot as the team’s biggest need.  This came out of a discussion of Burke.   He was basically saying we need a better version of Burke, especially in late game situations.  He said Brunson, who he likes,  doesn’t have the speed to be that.  

He identified Marcus Smart (more as an archetype than a realistic option).  But what was described certainly applies to Holiday too.  Chuck Cooperstein recently identified Holiday as someone the team should pursue.  Point being two guys who spend an awful lot of time with the team think a second creator is very needed.

Love Grant and Holiday. Those two dudes, combined, would fill the starting lineup out really nicely. Short of getting a 3rd star, I think that's about the best the team could do. I'm not saying it's possible to get both or even either, but those are two perfect fits for the team's holes, in my opinion.

(09-05-2020, 05:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]People are REALLY selling WCS short. He showed the ability to rim run with Luka (93.5 percentile and 1.46 PPP as roll man with the Mavs) and be a switch defending big. I will be VERY disappointed if he doesn't come back for another shot.

I don't think I'm selling him short. WCS was by every measure underwhelming in his short stint here. Sure, WCS is the archetype of a big the Mavs would like and is on paper a good fit, but it was obvious from the moment he started playing that the fit was awkward at best. He played in 13 of the 23 games he was available to play in. He didn't crack more than 10 minutes in 5 of those 13.

So is it really selling him short? Would he have not gotten more burn if was anything close to a positive impact player? It's not like the Mavs had a glut of bigs and didn't need him. The Mavs were motivated to replace Powell's role and trade for the guy, and he still didn't perform. 

And given the fact Powell is coming back and the emergence of Boban as a reliable offensive option off the bench, it makes WCS return even less needed.

(09-06-2020, 12:17 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-05-2020, 05:07 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]People are REALLY selling WCS short. He showed the ability to rim run with Luka (93.5 percentile and 1.46 PPP as roll man with the Mavs) and be a switch defending big. I will be VERY disappointed if he doesn't come back for another shot.

I don't think I'm selling him short. WCS was by every measure underwhelming in his short stint here. Sure, WCS is the archetype of a big the Mavs would like and is on paper a good fit, but it was obvious from the moment he started playing that the fit was awkward at best. He played in 13 of the 23 games he was available to play in. He didn't crack more than 10 minutes in 5 of those 13.

So is it really selling him short? Would he have not gotten more burn if was anything close to a positive impact player? It's not like the Mavs had a glut of bigs and didn't need him. The Mavs were motivated to replace Powell's role and trade for the guy, and he still didn't perform.

And given the fact Powell is coming back and the emergence of Boban as a reliable offensive option off the bench, it makes WCS return even less needed.

I watched the games in which he played (and yes, I know you did too). He did too perform.

WCS looked lost in his time here IMO. Doesn't really matter. I'd give his chances of being here next year less than 5%.

(09-06-2020, 01:31 AM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]I'd give his chances of being here next year less than 5%.

Well, it is totally his choice. But if I was him, I would reject that PO and sign somewhere for vet min, where I would get at least 20 mpg.

(09-06-2020, 01:02 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I watched the games in which he played (and yes, I know you did too). He did too perform.

Did we watch the same games...? I remember 1 standout game vaguely from WCS (just looked it up, it was against Charlotte where Luka didn't play and he put up a solid 15 and 10). 

Other than that he barely got on the floor for any significant amount of time. Carlisle routinely played him 5 minutes a game and yanked him because of his lack of impact. Then he went MIA dealing with a death in his family. And then opted out of the bubble. WCS played a total of 157 minutes for the Mavs. 

I get we all want a recreation of Tyson/Brandan Wright but WCS isn't it.

(09-06-2020, 02:27 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-06-2020, 01:02 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I watched the games in which he played (and yes, I know you did too). He did too perform.

Did we watch the same games...? I remember 1 standout game vaguely from WCS (just looked it up, it was against Charlotte where Luka didn't play and he put up a solid 15 and 10). 

Other than that he barely got on the floor for any significant amount of time. Carlisle routinely played him 5 minutes a game and yanked him because of his lack of impact. Then he went MIA dealing with a death in his family. And then opted out of the bubble. WCS played a total of 157 minutes for the Mavs. 

I get we all want a recreation of Tyson/Brandan Wright but WCS isn't it.

I think he´ll get another opportunity, if he wants it.

His first absence was due to the death of a family member. We don´t know how that person passed away, but if it was an illness, it surely would have impacted his performances in the weeks prior. Combined with the pregnancy of his wife/girlfriend, that must have been a hard time personally.

Furthermore lots of his on-court issue seemed related to his fitness imho. He always trailed plays and was breathing hard after a few minutes. That´s something you can fix.

Plus the raw plus/minus numbers weren´t so bad.

+5 / +8 / +1 / -5 / -1 / -3 / +25 / +2 / -16 / +5 / -3 / -7 / -2.  Admittedly lots of back-up and garbage minutes.

He ranked 20th in DRPM last season.

Given our limited financial resources this summer and the fact that we have three other centers are under contract, who will have minutes managed for various reasons, keeping WCS is probably the best option. Obviously the Mavs could draft a PF/C, but will Carlisle trust that player to defend the paint immediately?

I´d rather spend the money on somebody like Kris Dunn. Plus the Mavs need to be a bit smarter, when it comes to these contract dumping opportunities. Isaac Bonga ranks 6th in DRPM in the whole league at age 20, while the next best Wizard ranks 134th. The Lakers gave him away for free. He´d be a target for me next summer.

I am also pro-WCS being back. He might be able to get a similar deal somewhere else he likes better though. His salary is just barely over vet min.

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(09-05-2020, 11:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Love Grant and Holiday. Those two dudes, combined, would fill the starting lineup out really nicely. Short of getting a 3rd star, I think that's about the best the team could do. I'm not saying it's possible to get both or even either, but those are two perfect fits for the team's holes, in my opinion.

I like Jerami Grant a lot. The issue is that he's on a Nuggets team that presumably would like to keep him and can pay him. They also gave up a first round pick so I doubt they would let him walk. Further we know the Mavs brass will be all in on the Giannis sweepstakes and thus won't want to spend 2021 powder on a non-star.

I'm a fan of WCS's potential, but his option is for roughly $500K over what his minimum would be. My suspicion is that not opting in would result in a loss of that $500K. And, if he CAN get more than that, he should take it, and I sure hope he doesn't get more from the Mavericks, at least until he has proven himself for a year. 

This narrative about how "he doesn't like it here" is wildly speculative though, and doesn't seem to be rooted in reality. If he leaves, the most likely explanation will be that THEY don't like HIM as much as some other team does. He's not Lebron James, and he's far, far, far from being in a situation where he can pre-negotiate a minutes plan or take his pick from a scad of lucrative offers. Frankly, he's closer to playing in China than he is to that situation, and he knows that. Changing agents is in no way a definite indicator that he's opting out or wanting to change teams, obviously. Have we ever considered that his previous agent might have given up on the dude (because he has been underwhelming, so far) or stopped paying the proper attention to him (because he has been underwhelming, to this point) or expressed interest in a career path the client didn't like (ex: "you know, Willie, it's not really working out for you in the NBA, but I can get you a good deal in Turkey. I have connections there, and in my professional opinion, it's the best thing for your career.")? 

The above isn't aimed at anyone specific - I've just been reading so many examples of that kind of thinking with this dude, and I just don't get it. Even in situations where clashes are reported, they're often overblown, and in this situation, I don't recall reading anything that suggests the guy is unhappy here. Outside of fan boards, that is.

(09-06-2020, 08:40 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a fan of WCS's potentia

Simple thing with WCS and Mavs. Once Powell comes back he is fighting for a third string center role with Bobi. A fight he will most likely lose. Not really a place to show yourself and hope for a higher contract in 2021. More like a place after which the next stop will be China.

So I repeat - if I am him, I am looking for an option where I will have a chance to play 20 mpg (it will only happen in Dallas if KP and Powell are injured). And it is not about guaranteed minutes in contract. It is about a simple pecking order. For example, as it is now, Charlotte will have only one center under contract in 2021 (Zeller). Detroit also looks like a place with very weak center rotation. Lakers might need a cheap center if McGee or Howard leave. Phoenix might be an option if Baynes leaves. Washington is also weak at C. 

If he opts in, I would explore to trade him (we don't need another center with Powell back in rotation). Boston looks interesting - WCS for Poirier, Ojeyele and one of those picks for example. Or at least a pick swap like 18 for 14 or 31 for 26.