I think THJ+Wright+pick (perhaps second rounders are enough) to offset Wright negative contract, or THJ+Kleber.
(11-17-2020, 04:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]If Hayward ends up a Mav via trade, then I think there's no way it's something like THJ/Wright. More like THJ/Curry or Kleber or DFS. That's where I start to get very leery.
Mavs would get fleeced, and have a worse team. Losing THJ + X is a lateral move as a best case scenario. I would argue the Mavs are worse off after such a deal.
All those non THJ guys are way too important. Trading nearly 2 starters for 1 isn't helping the Mavs next season.
(11-17-2020, 04:48 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:35 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:32 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Luka you just gotta trust the process. The 4th knee surgery for Porzingis will 100% work. 
You do realize, that no matter what you do, this narrative will stay. If KP will not be able to play, Mavs are more or less screwed as far as contending goes.
You also realize that in 12 months time, you´ll have a much clearer picture on KP´s health.
Did we finally stay healthy in 2020/2021, then you can proceed according to that. Did he not? Then you can go after a big in 2021 FA like Gobert still have a good foundation to build around.
You also still have, whoever you drafted at #18 and #31. I know, I know they are pre-judged crap to PICK for the Mavs, but excellent assets for other teams to TRADE FOR. One of the great logics of this board.
Waiting for the right moment can make a massive difference. Didn´t we just learn that with Powell?
Can´t believe how some are losing their mind 48 hours into the trade window and want to shove all your chips into the middle for Gordon Hayward.
This is reasonable. KP looks good all year we keep building. Another injury and we look to pivot(and still can). Same with Hardaway and Hayward and Oladipo. The last thing we need is another hurt player on a long term deal. We have no pressure yet. Never give $ to a player with injury history until you’re forced
Here's my prediction:
IF this happens (big IF), there will be people who love it and others who hate it, just like any other move.
But, my feeling is that those who hate it will hate it because of the CONTRACT Hayward gets MORE than they hate what the Mavs send to Boston in the trade.
Could be wrong.
(11-17-2020, 04:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]If Hayward ends up a Mav via trade, then I think there's no way it's something like THJ/Wright. More like THJ/Curry or Kleber or DFS. That's where I start to get very leery.
Bingo. We don't have the cap room to outright sign him so we'd need Boston to take back matching salaries. That gives them leverage. And since Boston has cap woes, don't plan on them accepting non-expiring negative assets.
(11-17-2020, 04:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]If Hayward ends up a Mav via trade, then I think there's no way it's something like THJ/Wright. More like THJ/Curry or Kleber or DFS. That's where I start to get very leery.
That's why I said THJ, Jackson, DFS for Hayward. I also suggested the Mavs should probably get one of those picks. I'd say we want pick 30. Or they could say we'll give you 31 for 25 or something like that.
Mavs then take those picks and move Dwight and Wright for someone else. Or they trade up into the lottery.
If Hayes were to slip to PHX at 10 I'd be calling them like crazy with the now 2 1st rounders.
Hayes plus Hayward could potentially be a massive upgrade on defensive this offseason with alot of offensive upside.
(11-17-2020, 04:57 PM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs would get fleeced, and have a worse team. Losing THJ + X is a lateral move as a best case scenario. I would argue the Mavs are worse off after such a deal.
All those non THJ guys are way too important. Trading nearly 2 starters for 1 isn't helping the Mavs next season.
THIS.
THJ+Wright <-------> Hayward (+#30 even because I don't think Wright is actually a negative asset)
This is all you do or YOU WALK. Hayward is NOT a 3rd star, he is a starter. You don't do anything if BOS demands more of your rotation players or draft picks other than THJ.
(11-17-2020, 04:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my prediction:
IF this happens (big IF), there will be people who love it and others who hate it, just like any other move.
But, my feeling is that those who hate it will hate it because of the CONTRACT Hayward gets MORE than they hate what the Mavs send to Boston in the trade.
Could be wrong.
My initial reaction will likely be, "At least they did something..." especially if they don't lose 18 in the process. In other words, I'm at least pushed a little toward contentment by thinking they did the thing you would hate the most... but I would hope to be proven wrong.
People have let their THJ hate way blind him to his worth. There is a reason why THJ didn't publiclly announce he's not opting in the very second he was able to do so like Otto Porter, Nic Batum, Andre Drummond, Demar Derozan did ... becuase those guys know there is absolutely no chance in hell they could ever get anything close to their current salary on the market. Tim Hardaway Jr. might. Probably not, but its close enough to consider. He's represented by Mark Bartelstein, not Uncle Bosephus. He's a legit asset and Boston would be lucky to get him straight up for GH if they think GH could walk to someone like Atlanta.
(11-17-2020, 04:58 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]The last thing we need is another hurt player on a long term deal.
I've consistently said for weeks that THIS is the downside to anything with Hayward. It's valid. But, since we have no control over the situation, there's no choice but to simply trust that the Mavs and their medical staff has done their homework and believes he can be healthy.
All of this is probably jumping the gun, because we're only guessing the Mavs are looking at this, but IF they do this, and IF he can stay healthy, I PROMISE you guys that he'll make a difference here on the court. Ok, promise might be too strong, but I'm very, very confident.
Remember when we thought Parsons was good? Hayward is somewhere between Parsons and Luka as a guy WHO CAN RUN THE OFFENSE. They'd have TWO legitimate point forwards on the court and the same time, and both of them could space for the other.
(11-17-2020, 04:59 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]If Hayward ends up a Mav via trade, then I think there's no way it's something like THJ/Wright. More like THJ/Curry or Kleber or DFS. That's where I start to get very leery.
Bingo. We don't have the cap room to outright sign him so we'd need Boston to take back matching salaries. That gives them leverage. And since Boston has cap woes, don't plan on them accepting non-expiring negative assets.
I don't think it's as bad as you say. I think the pieces Mavs would send out are in question but I don't think its going to require Curry or Kleber. To me DFS could be someone in the mix.
(11-17-2020, 04:59 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]If Hayward ends up a Mav via trade, then I think there's no way it's something like THJ/Wright. More like THJ/Curry or Kleber or DFS. That's where I start to get very leery.
Bingo. We don't have the cap room to outright sign him so we'd need Boston to take back matching salaries. That gives them leverage. And since Boston has cap woes, don't plan on them accepting non-expiring negative assets.
Or they lose Hayward for nothing...Boston is backed into a corner and is trying to get something and no one is willing to meet their price yet...
(11-17-2020, 04:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my prediction:
IF this happens (big IF), there will be people who love it and others who hate it, just like any other move.
But, my feeling is that those who hate it will hate it because of the CONTRACT Hayward gets MORE than they hate what the Mavs send to Boston in the trade.
Could be wrong.
I'm curious to hear what you would pay him contract wise.
I think the 4 for 80 deal that's been thrown around for several different guys would make sense. Do you extend him and then do a 3 for 60?
I'd do that. to me a good starter at 20 mill is completely fair pricing.
Donnie has a close relationship with Hayward's agent. Who knows if it helps the Mavs or Hayward get more money. maybe both.
(11-17-2020, 05:00 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:57 PM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs would get fleeced, and have a worse team. Losing THJ + X is a lateral move as a best case scenario. I would argue the Mavs are worse off after such a deal.
All those non THJ guys are way too important. Trading nearly 2 starters for 1 isn't helping the Mavs next season.
THIS.
THJ+Wright <-------> Hayward (+#30 even because I don't think Wright is actually a negative asset)
This is all you do or YOU WALK. Hayward is NOT a 3rd star, he is a starter. You don't do anything if BOS demands more of your rotation players or draft picks other than THJ.
OK, I think I'm convinced - no more than THJ/Wright/a future 2nd for Hayward, and that's on his player option year without an extension only. That's not happening (especially from the stance of Hayward and his agent and teams competing to see who can give them the best extension deal), which means I'm likely in the disgusted camp if we trade for Hayward.
(11-17-2020, 05:00 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]THIS.
THJ+Wright <-------> Hayward (+#30 even because I don't think Wright is actually a negative asset)
This is all you do or YOU WALK. Hayward is NOT a 3rd star, he is a starter. You don't do anything if BOS demands more of your rotation players or draft picks other than THJ.
I'm not even sure what you are arguing here. Boston is going to want value to facilitate the trade so asking for #30 back is bananas. I don't think most people are arguing to trade DFS, Maxi, Curry or our picks, but rather arguing that there will be a price to pay for Boston facilitating that trade and it's going to be one or two of those. I don't need to walk from the deal because I'm not going to have the conversation in the first place. Hayward's heath + age + the contract he'll demand is a hard pass.
(11-17-2020, 05:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:58 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]The last thing we need is another hurt player on a long term deal.
I've consistently said for weeks that THIS is the downside to anything with Hayward. It's valid. But, since we have no control over the situation, there's no choice but to simply trust that the Mavs and their medical staff has done their homework and believes he can be healthy.
All of this is probably jumping the gun, because we're only guessing the Mavs are looking at this, but IF they do this, and IF he can stay healthy, I PROMISE you guys that he'll make a difference here on the court. Ok, promise might be too strong, but I'm very, very confident.
Remember when we thought Parsons was good? Hayward is somewhere between Parsons and Luka as a guy WHO CAN RUN THE OFFENSE. They'd have TWO legitimate point forwards on the court and the same time, and both of them could space for the other.
Yeah I like Hayward fine. It comes down to pricing.
I feel like he probably hasn't been discussed all that much because the circumstances seemed to suggest there wasn't much of a chance of anything happening.
Hayward was also most likely to be included in a salary matching deal or he was going to opt out. Now it seems there is a work together mindset to get both the team and player what they want. That's radically different and changes the price.
(11-17-2020, 05:03 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-17-2020, 04:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my prediction:
IF this happens (big IF), there will be people who love it and others who hate it, just like any other move.
But, my feeling is that those who hate it will hate it because of the CONTRACT Hayward gets MORE than they hate what the Mavs send to Boston in the trade.
Could be wrong.
I'm curious to hear what you would pay him contract wise.
I think the 4 for 80 deal that's been thrown around for several different guys would make sense. Do you extend him and then do a 3 for 60?
I'd do that. to me a good starter at 20 mill is completely fair pricing.
If teams are competing for his services based on the best extension, I doubt that's happening.