@"Kammrath" Your gif game is even better than your stats game. I need to get on your level.
(09-22-2020, 03:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think the Curry and Boban deals were great. Wright was unfortunate, but I understand what they were trying to do.
I don't even remember anything about Warren - can you catch me up?
I didn't understand the Kemba thing at the time, but I'm absolutely on board, in hindsight.
Ditto for Miami and Dragic. I think he would've helped them.
Kamm will probably smack in the face for this one, but I hate Danny Green. I don't think he's got anything left. Did they REALLY try to get him AGAIN at the TDL? I must've missed that.
As I said, I wasn't passing judgement what went well and what didn't. I just listed what they executed and what they tried but didn't.
Warren - it was said that Mavs were also negotiating but Phoenix chose Indy offer. Phoenix wanted cap space and Indy provided, Mavs were offering salary back (I think Lee)
I'm currently listening to Duncan and Hollinger drool over the prospect of Derrick Jones Jr in Dallas.
Thoughts?
(09-22-2020, 03:30 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 03:18 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 02:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]IF the Mavs don't think any available targets are WORTH the MLE, then I'd be ok with them not using it. I'd much prefer that right now over a bunch of dumb spending.
Sure thing. But the question is - does this make our FO look good or bad? Good because they (mostly) didn't sign bad contracts? Or bad because they don't find the good deals, which is what happened in the 2019 offseason and 2020 TDL. But since we have already been there, let me rather ask you this way:
Is 2020 offseason with Mavs not signing any contracts of significance a good or bad offseason?
I get the point you're making, and agree with it. But...what if they identify the smart signings, but those guys would prefer other situations?
Here's my off-season ranking:
1) Contracts of significance given to players who deserve them, significantly improving the team. (praise heaped by me)
2) some small, smart moves, but nothing of significance (still pretty happy, because the chess match isn't over yet)
3) almost no roster movement outside of the obvious (I'm not thrilled, but reserve judgement, because they might have good reasons)
4) Full MLE to Milsap and a trade for Tobias Harris (these are just bad examples, but at this point I'm part of the mob that's burning down the AAC).
I get what you're saying, though. Making trades, drafting players and signing players is kind of like taking shots in the last five minutes of the game. Every team has to do it, and you have no choice but to judge them on whether those shots go in. I just think that in this rare set of circumstances, the Mavs have one year, maaaaaybe two, where they'll improve by doing very little. You try to accelerate things, of course, but not at the risk of ruining this. It's just my opinion.
(09-22-2020, 03:22 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]KP can score around the rim in transition and pick and roll in a way dirk never could. He will never be the shooter or presence of dirk. KP is a much better paint defender than dirk and dominated. His big blocks for sure create offense and move team momentum. Again the question until he proves us wrong is health not ability. No player his size has ever played 1000 games
Yeah, again, I don't disagree with any of that. Well, not much of it, anyway. I actually would argue that he's on his way to being every bit the shooter Dirk was, that he's LESS deadly in transition, and that Dirk was one of the best pick and roll screener scorers of all time (this includes the pick and pop, btw).
But that isn't what I asked you.
I'm saying in the last 5 minutes of a tight game, against a great team, do you see KP being the type of player who can initiate offense for himself and others? Can he CREATE offense?
When Dirk added that high post iso skillset to his game, he went to another level. I just don't see something like that with KP. Maybe he can develop something over the next couple of years.
I guess i just don’t think KP will be asked to do much creating last 5 min. I want the ball in Luka’s hands the whole time. KP just being able to space the floor and shoot 3s is enough for me. What he contributes defensively is Chandler-like and where his focus should be last 5 min
(09-22-2020, 04:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm currently listening to Duncan and Hollinger drool over the prospect of Derrick Jones Jr in Dallas.
He is younger and more athletic version of last season DFS. Top defender (better than DFS) without the outside shot. Still young though. Too small/weak to guard Kawhis and LeBrons of the world.
(09-22-2020, 04:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Your gif game is even better than your stats game. I need to get on your level.
Ha, thanks.
But back to THJ. When I was expressing my angst about him earlier, I forgot to mention the playoffs. Note, it is DANGEROUS to draw many conclusions from a 6 game sample (and that is what the playoffs were for the Mavs), but THJ's shooting dropped 4% from three to 35% and his on/off just plummeted. It is the same thing that happened in 18-19 in his first stint with the Mavs. It feels like THJ has to shoot like 40% from three to break even as a player. It terrifies me to bet on that.
(09-22-2020, 04:06 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 04:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm currently listening to Duncan and Hollinger drool over the prospect of Derrick Jones Jr in Dallas.
He is younger and more athletic version of last season DFS. Top defender (better than DFS) without the outside shot. Still young though. Too small/weak to guard Kawhis and LeBrons of the world.
Interesting. They're saying he doesn't shoot well enough, but that in Dallas he could be effectively used as the roll man, like Powell.
(09-22-2020, 04:07 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]but that in Dallas he could be effectively used as the roll man, like Powell.
Well, I have a hard time seeing that. I mean, he is extremely athletic (winner of dunking contest is one of his accolades), but he is still just 6-6 and I think size matters for rim rolling guys. Small off ball fouls that refs often don't see or whistle might take away his jump in traffic.
(09-22-2020, 04:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Derrick Jones Jr in Dallas
I like him as a project but he better be CHEAP. He is getting played off the floor in the playoffs and was the worst DRating on MIA this season of the regulars. He was -3.5 defensively. AND he cannot shoot the three.
I think he has potential, but he does not fix anything in the short term. I would rather have Frank.
(09-22-2020, 03:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't even remember anything about Warren - can you catch me up?
PHX essentially gave Warren up for relatively nothing. They traded him to Indiana for the 32nd pick in the draft and cash considerations. That was it.
Many were wondering why the Mavs didn't take a flyer on a big scoring wing with some defensive qualities, even if he wasn't the best locker room presence in PHX and didn't have a 3pt shot.
Price was super low. But I feel what get's lost in translation is that the Mavs would've had to have beaten the IND deal. While it wouldn't have been difficult, the Mavs had spent a lot of their trade capital on KP. They had the 37th pick in the draft, 5 spots lower than IND. They would've had to have sent either a future pick (something we're quite light on), or a young player on the roster. Both routes would've have been a hard committal to Warren (with his 4 year 47 mil contract) and would have ruined their FA plans.
Hindsight is 20/20. If the Mavs had known that Boston would let go of Al Horford and magically become suitors in the Kemba race, and that Green would've strung us along, they probably would've made the trade happen. But of course the Mavs didn't know that. They couldn't have. And they felt going in that Kemba was a good chance and didn't want to give it up for TJ Warren.
(09-22-2020, 04:05 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I guess i just don’t think KP will be asked to do much creating last 5 min. I want the ball in Luka’s hands the whole time.
Yeah, I want that, too, but as we've seen, a good team can figure out how to get the ball out of Luka's hands when they have to. Doesn't matter how good Luka and Harden are, if nobody else on the team is competent to drive the boat when they need to.
This whole conversation is based on my feeling that multiple playmakers down the stretch against a great defense is becoming necessary. All of the remaining playoff teams have that.
It's ok if you disagree, but please understand that it's not coming from a place of me being unhappy with what they're doing that is already successful. I am not dogging KP, for example.
(09-22-2020, 04:11 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]They traded him to Indiana for the 32nd pick in the draft
Nope, they actually added the 32 pick. They paid to Indy to take him
(09-22-2020, 04:12 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 04:11 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]They traded him to Indiana for the 32nd pick in the draft
Nope, they actually added the 32 pick. They paid to Indy to take him
Holy shit I just looked that up and its true.
That trade was even worse then I remembered. Just wooooooooooooooow.
However, my main point still stands as to why the Mavs didn't trade for him. His 11m salary would've stopped the Kemba train, and the Mavs didn't want to close that door. His salary also extends beyond 2021 which would've been another 10 mil the Mavs would have to shed for the Giannis dream. Obviously if the Mavs knew Powell would tear his achillies, I'm pretty sure they'd swap his salary with Warren happily.
(09-22-2020, 04:15 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That trade was even worse then I remembered. Just wooooooooooooooow.
And the only problem I have is - if you skip a deal like that, than failing to actually execute Kemba (which is why they were actually saving the cap space), is a double disaster.
(09-22-2020, 04:17 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 04:15 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That trade was even worse then I remembered. Just wooooooooooooooow.
And the only problem I have is - if you skip a deal like that, than failing to actually execute Kemba (which is why they were actually saving the cap space), is a double disaster.
Which is true. I do think Kemba to Dallas was a done deal considering all the posturing by Kemba and the pieces written by the Hornets beat guy. It was only until Boston showed up in the 12th hour and offered Kemba a similar level of competitiveness with a more established team did that plan die. But shit happens. I never would've thought Boston would've given up on Al Horford so easily.
(09-22-2020, 04:19 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]It was only until Boston showed up in the 12th hour and offered Kemba a similar level of competitiveness with a more established team did that plan die. But shit happens. I never would've thought Boston would've given up on Al Horford so easily.
Which is yet another proof how plan powder is just not working for most of the time. Boston didn't have cap space and no one thought they would be a player. Did Mavs really had no other way to add Kemba (like dumping Lee with picks for nothing) after they signed Warren. I don't remember the numbers anymore, but Lee had a similar contract as Warren. Boston actually didn't even need to have the cap space, because they executed the SnT.
This Warren deal is a good example why I don't think plan have it both ways is realistic. This kind of opportunity appears from nowhere and you have to act to take it. Just like KP trade appeared. You either say yes or no. If you say no, your strategy is plan powder. But than you have to deliver the plan powder result! It can't be - oh, someone else jumped in and ruined my plan...
If another deal remotely close to the KP deal pops up, you kiss 2021 room goodbye and pull the trigger.
I don't think anyone sane would argue against that.
I guess it's just a matter of where we all draw that defining line.
(09-22-2020, 04:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I guess it's just a matter of where we all draw that defining line.
Since you dropped a similar life wisdom line to me just a couple of minutes ago: the grey zone in life is usually not a line. It is an area
(09-22-2020, 04:34 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 04:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I guess it's just a matter of where we all draw that defining line.
Since you dropped a similar life wisdom line to me just a couple of minutes ago: the grey zone in life is usually not a line. It is an area
Right, right. But what I'm saying is that there's a point at which the potential value of a player added is not worth totally giving up future flexibility, and I think that point is different for every one of us. That's the variable.
Just a random note:
This thread started 23 days ago and has 1000 comments (51 pages worth). Holy cow.