(11-05-2020, 01:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2020, 01:24 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2020, 11:27 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I just want to express my dismay 1) at the amount of Jrue sour grapesing going on here (yeah, we're not getting him, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a fantastic fit), and 2) the idea of us getting Gobert. Unless the Pels also want to give us their pick, Ingram snt, and either Jrue or Ball for KP. And I'd probably need more than that.
I'm might be missing something pal, which statements constitute sour grapes? Is it the "we're not getting him"? Just curious.
Regarding Jrue and Gobert, both, what I think is happening is that day-of posters drove the opinion in one direction, and made it appear that there was a statistical concencus on the forum. Some even "called" the forum opinion outcome because of this. But then mail-in posts arrived and got counted later than the day-of posts, which has made the forum opinion race tighten. Some posters cried fraud at this tightening of the forum opinion race, but really it's just the natural consequence of batches of posts arriving and being counted later.
#AllOpinionsCounted
No, it wasn't the "we're not getting him" issue, it was the denunciation of his value as a player, which was pretty absurd, tbqh.
This seems directed at me since I'm the only one seemingly questioning Jrue's value. It's quite the opposite of sour grapes because we can't get him. I'm suggesting the perceived value here is not accurate and I laid out my entire thought process as to why. FWIW I've been saying this offline to a friend I talk Mavs with everyday. I have months of receipts if I need to prove it. I've been confident for a long time now that Pelicans are going to explore a Jrue trade and I've said the market is going to be less than you'd think. I mean its not even that strong of a call he would be on the market. It's been speculated for the last year.
The thesis is simple. Mavs will be in the market with 4 or 5 teams and if others teams don't offer their best deals (and I don't believe they will) Mavs offer will be in the same range as everyone else. That is if they are willing to make that offer. And that's a huge IF IMO. I'm probably about 40% against the idea of trading for Jrue without a new contract because it exhausts all of your assets for the next few years. It's incredibly risky and you could wind up with a disaster of a trade. So often trades 2 years later look really really bad for one side. I worry this could be one of them. Same for Dipo btw.
Dipo FWIW has 2x as many all star appearances, the same NBA all defensive 1st team, and has made an All NBA first team. And similar 3pt percentage. Obviously the injury brings his value down. But Dipo pre injury was a better NBA player than Jrue. If teams are going to gamble a bit on trading for Jrue. I could also see someone scoffing at the high demand for Jrue and making a play at Dipo instead. Again expiring contract. It may take a max to keep him as well. It may not. Again there is risk.
(11-05-2020, 01:40 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Gobert/WCS/KP are the 1st, 20th and 29th best PLAYERS in the league in D-RPM. Yes, someone would have to cover the perimeter...especially on switches. But, there would be a highly rated shot blocker behind them at all times. I’m not sure we’ve seen that tried as there hasn’t ever been anything like KP and Gobert on the same team. That means the big on the perimeter doesn’t have to chase back to the basket. They can play fairly aggressive drop coverage and simply worry about 3 pointers as any player who goes around them will have a top shot blocker waiting for them.
We were killing it with Powell last year before KP came back into his own. Gobert is a substantial improvement over Powell. I think it would work, but we are probably only talking about 12 minutes a game. The other 32 minutes we could conceivably have one or the other star big on the floor alone
As I have stated before, I am 100% IN if Gobert is available.
If the Mavs think they can make Kemba + Luka work side by side, then by golly working KP + Gobert side by side should be doable as well.
Take the star, take the talent, let RC use it to shift the direction that the league is going so everyone suddenly wants their own KP/Gobert tandem.
#TrustRC
#TrustTheTalentWillFigureItOut
#TalentWins
(11-05-2020, 02:18 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2020, 01:40 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Gobert/WCS/KP are the 1st, 20th and 29th best PLAYERS in the league in D-RPM. Yes, someone would have to cover the perimeter...especially on switches. But, there would be a highly rated shot blocker behind them at all times. I’m not sure we’ve seen that tried as there hasn’t ever been anything like KP and Gobert on the same team. That means the big on the perimeter doesn’t have to chase back to the basket. They can play fairly aggressive drop coverage and simply worry about 3 pointers as any player who goes around them will have a top shot blocker waiting for them.
We were killing it with Powell last year before KP came back into his own. Gobert is a substantial improvement over Powell. I think it would work, but we are probably only talking about 12 minutes a game. The other 32 minutes we could conceivably have one or the other star big on the floor alone
As I have stated before, I am 100% IN if Gobert is available.
If the Mavs think they can make Kemba + Luka work side by side, then by golly working KP + Gobert side by side should be doable as well.
Take the star, take the talent, let RC use it to shift the direction that the league is going so everyone suddenly wants their own KP/Gobert tandem.
#TrustRC
#TrustTheTalentWillFigureItOut
#TalentWins
That should help KP with foul trouble as well.
You could give more rest games for KP with Gobert around. I like it.
(11-05-2020, 01:24 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2020, 11:27 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I just want to express my dismay 1) at the amount of Jrue sour grapesing going on here (yeah, we're not getting him, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't be a fantastic fit), and 2) the idea of us getting Gobert. Unless the Pels also want to give us their pick, Ingram snt, and either Jrue or Ball for KP. And I'd probably need more than that.
I'm might be missing something pal, which statements constitute sour grapes? Is it the "we're not getting him"? Just curious.
Regarding Jrue and Gobert, both, what I think is happening is that day-of posters drove the opinion in one direction, and made it appear that there was a statistical concencus on the forum. Some even "called" the forum opinion outcome because of this. But then mail-in posts arrived and got counted later than the day-of posts, which has made the forum opinion race tighten. Some posters cried fraud at this tightening of the forum opinion race, but really it's just the natural consequence of batches of posts arriving and being counted later.
#AllOpinionsCounted
Lawsuit filed for dead opinions counting.
Two questions I am asking myself after this Lowe piece:
1. What would Mavs do if GA extends with Milwaukee? Is it possible they already know he is extending?
2. What will OKC do if there are no suitors for CP3? It looks like Milwaukee and Philly are out on CP3 and he doesn't really want to go to New York. Would OKC still tear it down if he remains there? Please mind - OKC is the only team still without the coach
(11-05-2020, 03:13 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Two questions I am asking myself after this Lowe piece:
1. What would Mavs do if GA extends with Milwaukee? Is it possible they already know he is extending?
2. What will OKC do if there are no suitors for CP3? It looks like Milwaukee and Philly are out on CP3 and he doesn't really want to go to New York. Would OKC still tear it down if he remains there? Please mind - OKC is the only team still without the coach
Re: OKC - would almost certainly remove Gallo from the board. Might as well keep him if they're still going to try to compete a bit. And if they are willing to trade Schroder in that event, that ought to increase teams' wariness of him even more.
Honestly, I'd love for Giannis to sign the extension now. It keeps a great player in the East for once, supports one of the smaller markets, and allows teams like Dallas to focus more on the here and now.
(11-05-2020, 04:00 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I'd love for Giannis to sign the extension now. It keeps a great player in the East for once, supports one of the smaller markets, and allows teams like Dallas to focus more on the here and now.
Who is the next year’s name we need to save money for in that case, I want to jump on that bandwagon now!! (Please be aware of the heavy sarcasm)
(11-05-2020, 04:00 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I'd love for Giannis to sign the extension now. It keeps a great player in the East for once, supports one of the smaller markets, and allows teams like Dallas to focus more on the here and now.
Sign the extension now is the preferred route unless he's signing with the Mavs next summer.
Mavs probably have a decent read on the situation tho thru the agent backchannels. He shares an agent with Seth, the agency also has Wes as a client.
I would be shocked if Giannis foregoes the supermax at this point. The financial uncertainty of the league makes it too big of a risk.
I think Giannis not taking the max would be extremely telling about how strongly he is considering leaving.
(11-05-2020, 04:00 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I'd love for Giannis to sign the extension now. It keeps a great player in the East for once, supports one of the smaller markets, and allows teams like Dallas to focus more on the here and now.
Boooo!
Why do you have to wreck my dreams.
(11-05-2020, 04:16 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Giannis not taking the max would be extremely telling about how strongly he is considering leaving.
I think if he doesn't sign it, then his plan IS to leave (though success next season could change his mind of course).
Randomness:
Re: Denver needing more fire power. That's why they aren't going to trade MPJ. He's the offensive punch they need, he just needs to become consistent which should come with experience.
Re: Dan's idea for Harris for Powell/Wright, I just think you'll need to spend assets in the future when you want to get off his contract so you need t ask for future picks back as part of the deal. And if we are talking about taking on bad contracts, why not go after Paul instead?
Re: Gobert. I wouldn't mind the experiment and I think he'd be someone you could move fairly easily if the experiment fails.
I just took a nap for like 90 minutes (got up really early this morning). During that time, it seems like many of you have been struck with the terrible opinion stick. It's overwhelming, and I'm not sure I know where to start.
No, I'm sorry, Gobert and KP aren't a fit on defense. I don't care how many times you type it, they won't be able to play together. Most teams (I'll stop short of saying all, but it's probably all) have at their disposal a way of playing intended to attack EITHER of them, and we see lower paid centers getting played off of the floor constantly. Having BOTH of them out there would bring your defense down to keystone cop status. On offense they'd fit with Gobert in the Powell role, but I don't know that it's BETTER. I think it's a little worse, actually, and having TWO of your three max players not be able to handle the ball is quite possibly the worst way I can think of to make a top heavy roster. Zach Lowe already pointed out how stupid it would be financially, and since you didn't listen to him, I doubt you'll care what I think, but there it is. This path would be DUMB. I would hate it so, so much.
The only thing I'd hate worse than that: Tobias Harris. I can't believe we're still talking about that. I can't even, right now.
For those of you hoping Giannis comes off the board next week: you might get your wish, and when you do, I hope all you Mavs-haters are happy. I, personally, will be a bit disappointed, because I want the Mavs to win championships. But, not overly so, and no, that news wouldn't make me give up my "wait for something better" approach. The 2021 thing has never been about Giannis to me. I've said it over and over. I do NOT want to see team building that in any way resembles the terrible team building of the Nash/Dirk era. Until Luka signs his rookie max extension, the Mavs have to opportunity to say no to some of these desperate, awful ideas. I would continue to operate as if a Giannis-level (or slightly under) opportunity is just on the horizon.
(11-05-2020, 04:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Harris for Powell/Wright, I just think you'll need to spend assets in the future when you want to get off his contract so you need t ask for future picks back as part of the deal.
I would want at least Korkmaz or #21 or future 1st if I am taking on Harris. Need a young asset to go along with his crazy salary.
(11-05-2020, 04:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Gobert. I wouldn't mind the experiment and I think he'd be someone you could move fairly easily if the experiment fails.
Exactly. There is almost no downside to acquiring this talented asset, especially if Utah is forced to sell cheap because he can just walk soon.
(11-05-2020, 04:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-05-2020, 04:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Harris for Powell/Wright, I just think you'll need to spend assets in the future when you want to get off his contract so you need t ask for future picks back as part of the deal.
I would want at least Korkmaz or #21 or future 1st if I am taking on Harris. Need a young asset to go along with his crazy salary.
I'd not want their first this year and probably something a few years down the line as I'll need that asset to help dump his contract and there is the off chance the pick could be higher due to the team imploding.
Let's dream about Booker: THJ+Curry+Maxi+18+31+2025 1st + 2027 1st + 1st round pick swaps for Booker/Rubio.
(11-05-2020, 04:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I just took a nap for like 90 minutes (got up really early this morning). During that time, it seems like many of you have been struck with the terrible opinion stick. It's overwhelming, and I'm not sure I know where to start.
No, I'm sorry, Gobert and KP aren't a fit on defense. I don't care how many times you type it, they won't be able to play together. Most teams (I'll stop short of saying all, but it's probably all) have at their disposal a way of playing intended to attack EITHER of them, and we see lower paid centers getting played off of the floor constantly. Having BOTH of them out there would bring your defense down to keystone cop status. On offense they'd fit with Gobert in the Powell role, but I don't know that it's BETTER. I think it's a little worse, actually, and having TWO of your three max players not be able to handle the ball is quite possibly the worst way I can think of to make a top heavy roster. Zach Lowe already pointed out how stupid it would be financially, and since you didn't listen to him, I doubt you'll care what I think, but there it is. This path would be DUMB. I would hate it so, so much.
The only thing I'd hate worse than that: Tobias Harris. I can't believe we're still talking about that. I can't even, right now.
For those of you hoping Giannis comes off the board next week: you might get your wish, and when you do, I hope all you Mavs-haters are happy. I, personally, will be a bit disappointed, because I want the Mavs to win championships. But, not overly so, and no, that news wouldn't make me give up my "wait for something better" approach. The 2021 thing has never been about Giannis to me. I've said it over and over. I do NOT want to see team building that in any way resembles the terrible team building of the Nash/Dirk era. Until Luka signs his rookie max extension, the Mavs have to opportunity to say no to some of these desperate, awful ideas. I would continue to operate as if a Giannis-level (or slightly under) opportunity is just on the horizon.
The Mavs main issue is closing games and Gobert does not make it better...probably worse IMO...
The Mavs need to get a 3rd star, dynamic scorer, or better closing players if the first 2 options aren't attainable...We were elite for 3 1/2 quarters just need to get better at closing to truly contend...