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(09-10-2020, 11:16 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]ilwaukee doesn't really have a way to trade for CP3 without sending off Middleton bc CP3's contract is so massive.

Of course they can. Bledsoe (16,875), Hill (9,5), Ilyasova (7), Lopez (5) and Wilson (5) are more than enough contracts to make it work.

(09-10-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]If you can show me a legal trade that does some kind of 3-way CP3 deal

Bledsoe from OKC to Dallas can be part of a three team trade or separate trade. Doesn't matter and it is not difficult.

(09-10-2020, 11:14 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]But what do you give up for him? Since we talk about value contract strategy, you´d have to send out at least one of the negative smaller long-term deal and an expiring. So if they´d be willing to do Wright (or Powell) + Jackson for Bledsoe, I´d be on board with that.

Milwaukee is looking to improve, not to get worse...

So are the Mavs. Big Grin

You add Bledsoe on top of Powell+Wright, the best you can pray for is to add the monster contract of Blake or Wall. At that point FA is dead. It cost the Warriors two firsts and three seconds to clear $24M in room for Igoudala. Add Bledsoe and we are talking $38M to clean for 2021.

(09-10-2020, 11:08 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 12:06 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I believe the Mavs could be closer to reasonable contention simply by trading their trade pieces (absolutely including THJ) for two average (but defensively capable) NBA starters who expire in 2021 because that would be better than what they have.

Sure, IF the "starters" are the right players, and not just more things for people like you to complain about next season. The former would be great, but the absence of the latter should be the goal. Every move should be an improvement from here on out, and whether you're right or wrong about what some players bring to the team, that's no guarantee that what's available to them through trade will be better. There's a (reasonably good, now that they're a playoff team) chance it will be worse.

IF they can pounce on something that actually gets them to a championship contending level (or at least help, not hinder their growth towards that) then they absolutely should! But, IF those moves aren't there and they make moves just to make moves, they could easily make themselves worse, in the scheme of things. This mentality is how bad moves happen.

My point is that it seems logical, since they have no picks to trade and really only role players to deal, that what's available to them through trade is likely to be less enticing than what's available through Free Agency. This might not be the case, but until you have your team, it would be super dumb to close any doors to the point where they can't be re-opened.

Frankly, I'm glad some of you guys aren't in charge of the team. In summation, different is not synonymous with better.

I think that just saying "make a deal to make a deal" is a relative saying. Some people might look at a deal and think it's the right direction while others believe it to be a deal to make a deal. I believe getting defense on this team at a cost to the offense is a step in the right direction because when the last 2 minutes of a game comes, you have more than one side of the court to make a difference in the outcome of the game. Then it all depends on the degrees with which you're losing offense (if at all) compared to the degree of defense you're adding.

(09-10-2020, 11:16 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]ilwaukee doesn't really have a way to trade for CP3 without sending off Middleton bc CP3's contract is so massive.

Of course they can. Bledsoe (16,875), Hill (9,5), Ilyasova (7), Lopez (5) and Wilson (5) are more than enough contracts to make it work.

Seeing some trade options here: https://www.nbaanalysis.net/2020/09/09/b...milwaukee/

I forgot they had both Lopez brothers and so Robin's 5 mil does help you there. I don't think they would give up Middleton in any scenario but I would hope the Mavs would get in on a 3 way deal if Bucks move him but I doubt that happens.

This trade seems like the most feasible if OKC is truly in rebuild mode:

The Bucks Get: Chris Paul
The Thunder Get: Eric Bledsoe, George Hill, Robin Lopez, D.J. Wilson, A Future Draft Pick

In this scenario OKC still gets good players, altho some might find their way on a 3rd team. The big thing here is that OKC unloads CP3's massive contract and actually getting a draft pick. I haven't watched much of DJ Wilson so I don't know if he is considered an asset or not.

I could see this happening and they might even be able to squeeze out a better asset from the desperate Bucks.

For the Mavs if you could get Bledsoe for Wright + Jackson in a 3 or 4 way move that would be something to consider at least. The issue of course is that Bledsoe eats up quite a bit of 2021 cap space.

(09-10-2020, 11:29 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]What would you do if you were the Mavs' GM?

I've written this on multiple occasions. I would identify what I thought the team was missing to get to the next level (we've all done this already, but we don't all agree, shocking). I would diligently search for available players who I was POSITIVE fill those needs, and once identified, I would try to acquire them by any means possible. My thought is that the summer of 2021 is probably the best opportunity to do that, since there's a clear path to creating space and loads of players available, but I in no way would go into hibernation mode and wait for that. I'd work hard in the meantime, for sure.

But, what I wouldn't do is acquire players who I'm HOPING MIGHT be better than what I have, because what I have is better (way, way better) than what I thought I had. For example, I'm seeing trade ideas for Eric Bledsoe, and maybe I'm misunderstanding the role intended for him by the poster, but replacing THJ in our lineup with Eric Bledsoe would be a huge, huge mistake. Yes, fans who watch Hardaway every night see the flaws in his game, but they also become desensitized to the positives he brings. I think he's literally 5x the player Bledsoe is right now. That's just one example. The fan board MO seems to be "I've heard of that guy, GET HIM!" This way of thinking is not at all how the pros do it.

The toughest pieces to acquire are here already, and again, this team, right now, for a limited time, is in a position where they can improve (maybe significantly) through simple continuity and allowing the lessons learned this year to sink in and affect next year's play. Rocking the boat in ways that are unsuccessful doesn't stop at failing to improve the team, it often makes the team worse. For example, if Delon Wright had been a more high profile player (or a just a bad person) he would have constantly had microphones in his face this season about why it wasn't working out for him here, why he wasn't playing, etc. 1-2 of that type of roster error can easily set this whole endeavor back considerably.

It's so easy to lose focus on this, but this team COMPETES. Based on what we've seen in the bubble, that's far from a given in the league right now, even for the "good" teams. They LIKE each other, and they believe in Luka. This isn't the end-all-be-all goal when building the roster, but it's sooooo much more important (and difficult to achieve) than I think we know. Yes, you go for it - the roster isn't there yet. But, if it's me, I'm not trying to take risks until I'm sure about what I have. I honestly believe the team I have is better than UTAH, OKC, Denver and maybe even Houston. And again (I have a feeling this is the point of divergence) I see a team that's still improving from within.

I hate naming specifics, because we really have no idea who's available, and for what, but if your "two starters" were Jerami Grant and Jrue Holiday, I'd happily pull the trigger. I doubt that exact combo of players is available, but those are two types I feel like the team needs. But, what if by simply waiting through a likely shortened season that could potentially still be dealing with pandemic issues, and one that even you, yourself have admitted there's very little chance our Mavs can truly compete with the LA teams, they can get to a situation wherein they're presented with options far superior to any that appear over the next 6 months?

What if they can get something of equal value on the court in a year, while re-signing some of these guys you want to trade to come off the bench? The permutations are endless, and any door you walk through closes others. Much better to stay still until you're sure you're choosing the right door. If they're presented with a door they feel compelled to walk through, then F yes, they should run through it. When you post, I get a vibe that communicates "anything is better than this" and that is far, far from true. There are scads of teams in this league who wish their problems were THJ/Seth flavored instead of the doo-doo popsicles they're having to force down.

All I'm saying is that my standard for player movement right now is miles above "different." If you, as a fan, put yourself in a mindset where you'll be disappointed if/when a certain amount of moves aren't made, then in my opinion you're cheating yourself out of a big part of the enjoyment that comes from follwing a team that doesn't suck.

Think of it this way, as I believe most of us would agree with this:

When the Mavs targeted Kemba Walker last off season I scratched my head, and I actually remember being slightly relieved when he didn't come here. But now, after watching the team play a playoff series, I absolutely understand why they had that guy targeted, and I absolutely agree that what he offers on the court is one of the things this team needs. So, in a way, even though they didn't get him, they scored points with me for that.

Further, if I'm Kemba LAST summer, I choose Boston 10/10 times. If that same situation played out THIS off-season, I think he gives the Mavs a harder look. Not sure he doesn't still settle on the thought that Boston is a better team and situation for him, but every player in the league just watched the Mavs give the Clippers much more fight than LA was hoping for, so the seed has been planted. In other words, what WE think of this team and what THE WORLD thinks of this team are starting to trend towards similarity. This is a good thing.

Great post, KL. Thank you for taking the time.

Grant and Holiday wouldn't be change for change sake, it would be a grand slam, and there's probably no way to make it happen.

I'm with IGT's post above that the Mavs simply need more defense in the starting lineup - specifically, more than they had when THJ and either Powell or Curry were starting.

I'm doubling down on the "get something other than THJ" position. If you're just going to let him walk in '21 anyway, I would speculate that 2020-21 is actually the one year you can least afford to have him here. Many people pointed out how locked in and significantly improved Luka was on defense in the latter half of the Clipps series. Given how rapidly the man levels up (I swear his career arc is like a video game sometimes), I wouldn't be surprised if he's a plus defender by 2021-22. But then it's this year that THJ as a starter would hurt next to Luka.

(09-10-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Milwaukee doesn't really have a way to trade for CP3 without sending off Middleton bc CP3's contract is so massive. I imagine Milwaukee would rather have expiring THJ over Bledsoe. They struggled shooting in the playoffs. I don't think Mavs would value Bledsoe enough over THJ who is obviously a good fit here and is on an expiring contract.

If you can show me a legal trade that does some kind of 3-way CP3 deal it would be interesting but the salary matching would be very difficult as far as I can tell. That being said I think Houston had a crazy trade last year with a ton of moving parts.

I managed to create a massive 3-team 11 player trade between the Bucks, Mavs, and OKC that works financially.

I don't know how well you can see that image. But essentially here's the trade in text form

DAL Receives: Middleton and Adams.

Bucks Receive: CP3, THJ, and Powell

OKC Receives: Ersan Ilyasova, Bledsoe, Wright, Justin Jackson, and Courtney Lee SnT, plus whatever picks to make it work.

So this software was a little wonky. It counted all the free agent cap holds of both teams and didn't give a way to renounce them to free up the cap space. So in order to make the trade legal, I had to force Connaughton to the Mavs even though he's a free agent to free up 155K in space. I chose him randomly, any cap hold on the Bucks would accomplish this. Also since the Mavs couldn't renounce Lee's hold, he had to be SnT to make the money work. 6M the first year, then 2 years min.

Overall I think this trade would work without including Lee and a random Buck player, as long as their holds were renounced for.

So the cut down version would be Adams+Middleton to the Mavs. CP3+THJ+Powell to the Bucks.. Ersan+Bledsoe+Wright+Jackson to the Thunder. Plus whatever draft compensation the Thunder would want. Given that the Mavs are taking Adams contract from OKC plus they're getting out from CP3, I think it would be relatively light. Bucks might want more value, but since it's basically swapping out CP3 for Middleton while getting another starting 2 in the process, AND retaining most of their team, I think they'd be for it.

(09-10-2020, 12:49 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Great post, KL. Thank you for taking the time.

Grant and Holiday wouldn't be change for change sake, it would be a grand slam, and there's probably no way to make it happen.

I'm with IGT's post above that the Mavs simply need more defense in the starting lineup - specifically, more than they had when THJ and either Powell or Curry were starting.

I'm doubling down on the "get something other than THJ" position. If you're just going to let him walk in '21 anyway, I would speculate that 2020-21 is actually the one year you can least afford to have him here. Many people pointed out how locked in and significantly improved Luka was on defense in the latter half of the Clipps series. Given how rapidly the man levels up (I swear his career arc is like a video game sometimes), I wouldn't be surprised if he's a plus defender by 2021-22. But then it's this year that THJ as a starter would hurt next to Luka.

Oh, I think they actually like THJ, and I understand why. Now, that doesn't mean they disagree with you that he's overmatched in his current role, but then again, they might.

He's going to want to play here when his contract expires - this has been a much more positive experience for him than NY. It will be up to the Mavs to decide whether that happens. If they want him, I'd bet good money that he'll get a more reasonable contract than the one NY gave him. They paid him on the potential they saw for him to grow into being a star player, and we can ALL agree that that ship has sailed. I doubt any GM or even his management team is holding onto that thought. I think it's possible he ends up back here on a shockingly team friendly deal, specifically because of the great trajectory that Luka's Mavs era is solidly traveling.

He DID contribute this year. A lot. He DOES fit in with the culture and locker room. All I'm saying is that you don't throw that in the trash.

But, just to give you an idea of where I am, IF trading THJ gets you a Middleton/Grant type of player who is ready to effectively take on a starting role for a contender in an area of need, AND you're confident you have a plan to plug in the hole created by his absence (maybe Curry, who could work next to Luka, given the right mix) then...sure. I'd put Curry up in a similar deal and be fine with THJ starting one more year. I just have a hard time believing that the kind of deal I'm envisioning is readily available this off-season. But, who knows? You definitely try.

(09-10-2020, 01:04 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 11:05 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Milwaukee doesn't really have a way to trade for CP3 without sending off Middleton bc CP3's contract is so massive. I imagine Milwaukee would rather have expiring THJ over Bledsoe. They struggled shooting in the playoffs. I don't think Mavs would value Bledsoe enough over THJ who is obviously a good fit here and is on an expiring contract.

If you can show me a legal trade that does some kind of 3-way CP3 deal it would be interesting but the salary matching would be very difficult as far as I can tell. That being said I think Houston had a crazy trade last year with a ton of moving parts.

I managed to create a massive 3-team 11 player trade between the Bucks, Mavs, and OKC that works financially.

I don't know how well you can see that image. But essentially here's the trade in text form

DAL Receives: Middleton and Adams.

Bucks Receive: CP3, THJ, and Powell

OKC Receives: Ersan Ilyasova, Bledsoe, Wright, Justin Jackson, and Courtney Lee SnT, plus whatever picks to make it work.

So this software was a little wonky. It counted all the free agent cap holds of both teams and didn't give a way to renounce them to free up the cap space. So in order to make the trade legal, I had to force Connaughton to the Mavs even though he's a free agent to free up 155K in space. I chose him randomly, any cap hold on the Bucks would accomplish this. Also since the Mavs couldn't renounce Lee's hold, he had to be SnT to make the money work. 6M the first year, then 2 years min.

Overall I think this trade would work without including Lee and a random Buck player, as long as their holds were renounced for.

So the cut down version would be Adams+Middleton to the Mavs. CP3+THJ+Powell to the Bucks.. Ersan+Bledsoe+Wright+Jackson to the Thunder. Plus whatever draft compensation the Thunder would want. Given that the Mavs are taking Adams contract from OKC plus they're getting out from CP3, I think it would be relatively light. Bucks might want more value, but since it's basically swapping out CP3 for Middleton while getting another starting 2 in the process, AND retaining most of their team, I think they'd be for it.

Ok, so this is a great example. This trade probably won't happen, but if I'm the Mavs I do this in a heartbeat. However, I have a feeling it's for different reasons.

Middleton would be a HUGE score, as he's a two-way player who, like Grant, would look great right between DFS and KP in the starting lineup. Totally worth taking on his guaranteed money, imo.

I do NOT think Adams helps this team, like, at all. To get Middleton, I take that one-year deal, but I think there are people here who would constantly bitch about him not playing, and I would 100% understand that choice. That dude is not a winning player in today's game. If that contract has even one more year on it, I don't even consider it. Powell is a much, much better player than Adams. I know many won't agree, but I suspect that the majority of those people's understanding of pro basketball is stuck in 2011.

If you could do this and keep WCS, I think you might have something. That's still a risk with Powell/WCS and Curry (your new starting off guard)/THJ, but I'm so sure about Middleton's fit here that I'd do it.

I agree Adams doesn't make any sense. People who keep wanting to add a center to this team aren't paying attention. KP is now the starting center, that is the best role for him and goes with the way Rick wants to play.

I would love a deal that got Middleton to Dallas but I don't think Bucks want to ship him off. I believe per Stein they would like CP3 but I think they can give up mostly spare parts for CP3 as they might be the only team in the league that would be willing to take his contract. Why ship out Middleton who is your team's 2nd best player for CP3 if you can get him for misc contracts and a future pick or two?

Sato is a good player ... but he doesn't move the needle at all, to compromise fa21 (Vanvleet does) ... he can get 1 year from A. Bradley ... if we don't catch Giannis .. Jrue / Oladipo / Schroeder / Richardson / N. Powell / Hayward / Porter / Winslow / Govert / Adams / Oubre / Drumond / Derozan ... will be there ... it seems realistic to get 2 types of these (if we have max space)
Luka
oladipo or jrue
Hayward or Porter
Dfs / Maxi
Kp
this team can win a ring

Guys put your feet on the ground..no way the Mavs get Middleton for Thj .. !!!!!. Middleton is an allstar ...

(09-10-2020, 01:34 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Sato is a good player ... but he doesn't move the needle at all, to compromise fa21 (Vanvleet does) ... he can get 1 year from A. Bradley ... if we don't catch Giannis .. Jrue / Oladipo / Schroeder / Richardson / N. Powell / Hayward / Porter / Winslow / Govert / Adams / Oubre / Drumond / Derozan ... will be there ... it seems realistic to get 2 types of these (if we have max space)
Luka
oladipo or jrue
Hayward or Porter
Dfs / Maxi
Kp
this team can win a ring

Guys put your feet on the ground..no way the Mavs get Middleton for Thj .. !!!!!. Middleton is an allstar ...

Totally agree, the Middleton thing isn't happening - just saying I would do it if available, and if it were, I wouldn't let 2021 cap space stop me.

I'm not sure I agree with everything you wrote above, but I definitely agree with your general outlook and mental approach. Good stuff.

(09-10-2020, 01:30 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

Disculpe amigo, pero no se saldrá del contrato de Powell. y un tipo pagado de más y promedio (thj) y obtener un Allstar .. Sí, sería maravilloso ... pero solo tendría 28 equipos superando su oferta ...

(09-10-2020, 01:34 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Sato is a good player ... but he doesn't move the needle at all

I really disagree with this.

Both Tomas and OPJ move the needle for the Mavs because they are flexible wing defenders (OPJ guarding 3s and 4s and Tomas guarding 1-3). This is what the Mavs NEED to get over the hump. The needle moves by adding DEFENDERS. This was the best offense in league history, the needle doesn't move by trying to push that even further.

Dallas could send Thj to Hawks space (if they're interested) with maybe some incentive .. and go after Vanvleet .. maybe a Grant St (3 × 16). sending Thj + # 31. If Denver doesn't want to overeat you

Maybe I didn't see Sato enough ... but I admit I wasn't impressed by his defense at all ... yes, I love Porter, his fit would be ideal, .. but I guess we'll agree ... that the guy has to prove he can stay healthy

(09-10-2020, 01:43 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 01:34 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Sato is a good player ... but he doesn't move the needle at all

I really disagree with this.

Both Tomas and OPJ move the needle for the Mavs because they are flexible wing defenders (OPJ guarding 3s and 4s and Tomas guarding 1-3). This is what the Mavs NEED to get over the hump. The needle moves by adding DEFENDERS. This was the best offense in league history, the needle doesn't move by trying to push that even further.

Man I'd love Tomas and OPJ, and hey it's Plan Powder friendly! I don't recall if you already had a trade proposal but I would think it would be something like Tomas/OPJ for JJ/Wright/THJ and probably both picks would have to be sent.

That would be an upgrade imo even though you would lose some offense with THJ. THJ is already somewhat redundant with Curry and I think Tomas helps fill some of the void there. OPJ fills a major need defensively and also gives you offense better than DFS altho I would play them together.

My starting lineup probably becomes:
Luka, Tomas, DF, OPJ, KP which in my view is a really nice lineup. Mavs would have four 6'7-6'8 guys next to KP and the defense is also better. I like Seth still as the 6th man but he's an option to start some nights.

Tomas has 5 mil guaranteed in 2021 so you can either keep him or probably pretty easily move him draft night that year if you really want to get his money off the books. That's a good team imo.

(09-10-2020, 01:43 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]This was the best offense in league history, the needle doesn't move by trying to push that even further.

Correct, but any defenders they add need to be good enough on offense to ensure they can be viable rotation options. The league isn't (and hasn't been) trending towards "small ball"...they've been trending towards "everyone on the court can play" ball, lol. It's just that guys who are 6'9" and above who can handle, shoot and move skillfully are much more rare than guys who check all of those boxes, but in a 6'4" body. I know you already know this, btw, so I don't want you to feel like I'm trying to teach you anything. I just think it's germane to this discussion.

Wright IS a good defender, but he struggled to competently play offense off the ball, so Carlisle literally couldn't play him in moments that mattered.

Hence, it's not defenders that are needed, but two-way players. Even if their role on the team is defense-first (and there absolutely should be some studs who fall into that category on any good team) they must be a threat on the other end, whether that's as a vertical, rim-running threat, as a catch and shoot spacer, as a straight line driver who can competently pass, or, ideally, some combination of those traits. Otherwise, they literally will not be in the game, and this is true for any team, not just one coached by Carlisle. This is the way the league is going now. This is the new arms race. Carlisle is AMONG those who are on the early side of figuring this out, which is one of the reasons the Mavs are overachieving, but any team who isn't thinking this way moving forward is dumb, dumb, dumb.

Now, none of this is meant to disagree with your assessment of the two players you mentioned, as I trust that you've studied them more than I. I'm just saying that if it were a simple matter of plugging in "defenders" then boom - just play Wright and MKG more. The truth is that it's not about that AT ALL. Again, this is a general post aimed as some systemic bad thinking that I read here often, and not aimed at you, Kamm. I'm reasonably confident that we agree on this, at least to a certain point.

Wright is a good defender, but much moreso off-ball. His on-ball defense actually wasn't that great. His instincts however in terms of anticipating passes and jumping into passing lanes was awesome. He is certainly a better defender than most of the Mavs' players but he just isn't a fit. Rick could never really find a role for him so he is like 99% gone this offseason imo.

I could see him flourishing on another team, especially one that could let him hold the ball more on offense. On the Mavs team he had to do more off-ball stuff which didn't really suit his game. He was also too tentative across the board. Maybe he would be more aggressive on another team, not sure. All that to say he's probably gone so we need to find a better player that Rick will actually play in the playoffs.

(09-10-2020, 01:40 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Disculpe amigo, pero no se saldrá del contrato de Powell. y un tipo pagado de más y promedio (thj) y obtener un Allstar .. Sí, sería maravilloso ... pero solo tendría 28 equipos superando su oferta ...

Por supuesto. Powell es un gran problema para los Mavs. Pero, mover el contrato de Powell no es imposible. Especialmente si da 20 miliones de espacio para los Bucks y Thunder.

My bad if my spanish was terrible there. Been a very long time and thought it'd be fun to see if I still had it. I'm probably at a 3rd grade level lol. Anyways, I don't think the trade I posed was likely. More it was like an interesting thought experiment to see if the Mavs could facilitate a 3-team deal that nets the Bucks CP3. It is possible. I figured since OKC is going into rebuild mode Adams would be on his way out and I doubt they want to pay the tax. Mavs are one of a few teams that has the space to take back these big contracts.

Either way, there are (well there definitely is) better trades for the Mavs this offseason that nets them a better 3rd option.

I think Beverly and Morris, of the Clippers, are two great examples of this, as is Jerami Grant. Yes, all of those guys' roles are to be physical with the opponents' best players and to attempt to slow them down by thinking defense first. But in a tie ball game with under two minutes remaining, they're ALSO dudes who make the opposing fans' hearts fall into the pit of their stomachs when they catch the ball in the corner, wide open.

THAT is the type of player the Mavs need to move forward, and I'm not doing a damn thing to this roster unless I'm getting that type of player as a result.

If you examine the teams who are left in this tournament, the common thread is that they all have more two-way players than the Mavs do (except for MAYBE Denver). Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single player on the Clippers, Boston or even Toronto that AREN'T at least a little effective on both ends of the court. Miami has many more two-way players than Dallas does. The Lakers don't have many of them at all, and in some cases are playing people who are bad on both sides of the court, but their STARS are two-way players, which makes winning immeasurably easier, because they get star calls on both sides of the court.

(09-10-2020, 01:45 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-10-2020, 12:43 AM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Am I the only person that would trade KP.

Yes.

I am in the minority that thinks KP injury concerns are a bit overblown. He's had only 1 major injury his entire career, which was an ACL tear where Giannis landed on him.

Sure KP has had a lot of little things in his short career, stuff that keeps him out 2-10 games a season. But looking at his overall career, he really hasn't been that unavailable. Rookie year 72/82 games played (88%). Next year 68/82 (83%). 48/82 (59%) ACL year. Then sat out the entire year, but we all know the Mavs intentionally kept him out in a lost year to protect their investment. Then COVID year he played 57/75 games (76%). KP has played in more career games than Joel Embiid. He played more games than him this season too. He played in more games than Paul George, and the exact same amount of games as Kawhi Leonard. Anthony Davis only played 5 more than him this year. Nobody is exclaiming that the Clips should trade either one their guys. Even though that Leonard is guaranteed to miss at least 20 games a season due to his quad. Why is there no narrative over that? Because Kawhi is worth it and has shown up in the playoffs. KP didn't really get a chance to show his availability this year. He got questionably ejected game 1 where he was also injured. He played in games 2, and 3 on a torn meniscus, and the Mavs evoking a familiar choice ala Dirk in 03, chose to shut him down even if it meant conceding a series that could've gone either way. An injury by the way that was another contact injury. Except luckily this one, as knee injuries go, is absolutely nothing.

I'll concede that KP is all but a given to miss 10-15 regular season games, but given his production, that is a small cost. I'd take a dude that is 7'3 that can average 30/10 with incredible defense and range. You can't avoid contact injuries. They're apart of the game and trying to find a bulletproof player is impossible. Even iron man Dirk fell victim to contact injuries. The only things that have seriously stopped KP has been contact injuries and bad luck.

All the while he's such a unique player that it makes the injury risks (no matter how big or small) worth it. He's a 7'3 guard. He makes small ball possible but without giving up size. Trading KP would be a mistake. The list of guys that'd make the trade a clear win for the Mavs is so short that it's unrealistic. He earned the moniker "Unicorn" for a reason.

I love KP's upside. But you can't really call KP's injury concerns overblown IMO. He does not play anywhere near as physical as some of the guys his injury records is compared to. Joel Embiid and Anthony Davis are players who score way more through contact in the paint than KP, who actively avoids contact. The 19% of the overall FGA made by KP at the rim is ridiculously low for a 7+ footer (Dirk's was low also, but this is partly why he was able to avoid serious injuries, plus he was way less vertically gifted compared to KP and a much better shooter). Therefore the context of his injuries is more concerning I think. It also contributes to the fact his overall TS has been garbage his whole career.

There are a bunch of instances where I'd trade KP. The first one would actually be for Giannis. That's in the unlikely scenario that Giannis basically refuses to sign the supermax and declares he wants to leave. If he does want to leave, I could actually see a scenario where he feels like he doesn't want to leave the Bucks empty handed and gives them the opportunity to actually get something in return. Trading KP for Giannis might seem silly since you could get him for nothing in FA, but if you could trade for him with the guarantee he'd sign the extension, you've removed KP's contract and the real injury risk from the books, while still giving yourself the opportunity to potentially free up enough space get another FA at the end of the season like a Jrue Holiday. With a Luka/Giannis combo, eveyone else is making up the numbers really, that duo is basically dominating on their own for 10 years.

The other trade scenario would be for Bradley Beal. Similar situation. Bring in another elite scorer and ball handler, who's game is likely elevated by Luka, and you still have the ability to move another piece or two to free up space to go after someone like Gobert in FA if you want a defensive anchor to replace KP. With scorers of the caliber of Luka and Beal, playing 5 out is less important IMO, Gobert is out constantly setting picks for both of them.

There is easily enough of an injury risk with KP to where he is clearly tradeable for certain high level players, I'm sure there's others you'd trade him for, but the above two are elite level players who actually may become available. He's also 25 and coming into his prime, but has never really put together a great season that really validates his talent level, hence we constantly talk about what he can do, or his potential. I get there's reasons for that, but it becomes less of an interesting argument the more you have to keep referencing potential for a player as they start to move into their mid-late 20's.

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