(11-09-2020, 11:59 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly if I was Giannis, I'd be signing that supermax at free agency. Give them certainty for now and give them chances to make moves. If they flop again demand a trade a year from now.
Too much uncertainty and money to be lost by skipping the deal.
Of course, Bucks don't have to accept the trade request. But I'd be surprised if they didn't. You almost always see the guy get traded in the end.
This seems to be the most likely outcome. It will be the same as the deal Presti gave to Paul George. Re-sign with us and if things don't work out, we promise to meet your trade request.
I also want to add that I think the TDL will be active this year and certain players may ask to be traded that we may want...
(11-09-2020, 01:03 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2020, 12:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that waiting until next summer is too late, despite all the talk about how teams can create space anytime they want. I don't think it's nearly as easy as people flippantly declare, especially when you're short on sweeteners to attach in such deals.
I think the asset point is key. We don't have to perfectly clear the decks prior to 2021, but we have to get to within easy striking distance. I used the term controlling their own destiny to denote this. The other part of the concept is clearing space while still having a team around the 3 stars.
This isn't the same as some of the cases in years past where a Miami or a GSW or a Los Angeles team could give away assets to clear room.
There is no doubt we can give away enough assets next summer to make Giannis happen, but as we all agree you have to find the most clever way to go about it. Let´s say we draft Desmond Bane and Tyler Bey (in line with the Mavs clear tendency to pick players with 3+ years of college/pro experience). You know how old these guys are?
Bey is the same age as Ayton/Bamba, a year older than JJJ/Bagley/WCJ
from the 2018 draft class. Bane is within 6-9 months of all the top picks from the
2017 draft class. That´s 3 1/2 years ago. So these guys should be able to contribute right away and then teams will say: Sure we eat Powell+Wright, give us Bey and Bane. They won´t be like, yes please give me your unprotected 30th pick from 2025 and 2027.
Right now with "only" Luka and Porzingis you can still talk yourself into the Mavs falling back into the lottery, if Porzingis suffers a career-altering injury. Once Giannis commits we are a 60 win team for the next decade, no matter who else is on this roster. That also de-values our future 1st round picks next summer. Not that I would necessarily want to trade a 1st right now to get rid of Wright and Powell.
Also even if the Mavs were the last team on earth, given the sheer amount of good free agents next summer, everybody is getting a good player. It´s not just Giannis.
Also all these agents and teams were planning for 2021 with a cap projection of like $122M. That knocks off $390M in available capspace for all these guys. Does that make it more likely some guys will stay put? Sure. But that still costs money.
I bet even teams like the Knicks, Hornets or Kings will do well next summer. People will be like good job Kings snatching Jarrett Allen as your starting center for the next decade. Sound investment.
(11-09-2020, 01:03 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I think the asset point is key. We don't have to perfectly clear the decks prior to 2021, but we have to get to within easy striking distance.
I am fully on team
Acquire Talented Trade-able Assets (ATTA). To me that needs to be the plan moving forward.
![[Image: AdvancedOrdinaryInchworm-size_restricted.gif]](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/AdvancedOrdinaryInchworm-size_restricted.gif)
(11-09-2020, 03:28 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/vinfosh/status/1325868186902949900
That doesn’t have to include one of Horford/Tobias necessarily. NY might get a 2nd for taking Scott and you can get pretty close using Richardson, Smith and one other minor contract. Kind of kills any THJ to Philly talk (if there ever was any).
If Knicks are eating Scott contract, they will get at least 1 of Philly second rounders. Hield+Barnes for Horford and Richardson makes sense for both teams.
(11-09-2020, 02:46 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2020, 01:03 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I think the asset point is key. We don't have to perfectly clear the decks prior to 2021, but we have to get to within easy striking distance.
I am fully on team Acquire Talented Trade-able Assets (ATTA). To me that needs to be the plan moving forward.
No one is arguing against getting good players on cheap deals. In fact, that seems to have been their plan for the last couple of years, so mission accomplished. The point is that when you've exhausted those options, the next move should 100% not be to get players on bad contracts, UNLESS you're doing so as a means to get
an A-list guy, which doesn't seem likely.
Yes, you can trade Curry easily. Yes, having multiple Curry-like players on the roster makes moving 1-2 of them palatable. But, what people around HERE consider to be a value situation is nut-bar factor 9, sometimes.
I would LOVE Gordon Hayward
at a certain number, for example, and I don't think taking a couple of swings at the draft would be the worst thing, either.
Very simple and safe: Go about your business, make smart decisions, and at the trade deadline, anyone not in YOUR rotation who isn't likely to be easy to move next summer, bail on them. Honestly, if you're confident NOW they won't help you this year and you've already tried to swap them for players who can, I'd be OK with doing it sooner as a last resort. I definitely don't want to be in a situation where I can't move the contracts I'd PREFER to move. I want the majority of the guys with value HERE after next summer if at all possible. Again, if you find more deals this month like Curry and Boban last year, GREAT! But NOT finding those deals isn't the worst thing that could occur, imho. Talking yourself into bad deals just to "do something" is, by far, the dumbest possible outcome.
@"KillerLeft"
I am mostly responding to anyone who wants a shot at Giannis or another player next summer in free agency by saying the Mavs do NOT need to clear space now.
Getting off contracts now should be in no way a priority of any kind UNLESS you are targeting capspace THIS offseason (which is possible). If the Mavs are wanting to be a player next summer then just continue to Acquire Talented Trade-able Assets through the draft, through free agency with exceptions, and through trades. But do not "clear space"...way too premature for that IMO. You can clear space WHEN you need it as long as you have talented, trade-able assets.
(11-09-2020, 04:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]@"KillerLeft"
I am mostly responding to anyone who wants a shot at Giannis or another player next summer in free agency by saying the Mavs do NOT need to clear space now.
Getting off contracts now should be in no way a priority of any kind UNLESS you are targeting capspace THIS offseason (which is possible). If the Mavs are wanting to be a player next summer then just continue to Acquire Talented Trade-able Assets through the draft, through free agency with exceptions, and through trades. But do not "clear space"...way too premature for that IMO. You can clear space WHEN you need it as long as you have talented, trade-able assets.
Right, I get your intent, and I agree. I do NOT think others reading always fully understand this argument of yours. I think they read that and think "Yes! Trade THJ for Tobias Harris!"
"Acquire Talented Trade-able Assets" as you put it is basically another way of saying "run a team." EVERY team sets out every day of the year to do exactly that, and they all believe they're succeeding...until they realize they aren't. Washington didn't sign Wall to that contract because they were itching to be totally screwed for 3-5 years, void of any hope.
There IS a level of contract you can't "just move next year to create space." There just is. And, there are several levels of contract below that will be difficult enough to move that you'd have to attach assets (which you don't have) to do so. I think it would be INSANE for the Mavs to hamstring themselves in that way, and not just because of Giannis. Like @"Mavs2019" points out, there will be other options!
I like @"DanSchwartzman"'s wording a lot, and it's what I've been trying to express for months. "You don't have to clear the decks, but you have to stay within easy striking distance."
Im so burnt out from all this discussion. Don't get me wrong I love the conversation as always but there is only so many times we can go in a circle talking about Hayward, Gobert, OPJ, etc.
Can the NBA just do SOMETHING already. Yeesh.,
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431653-.../#comments
He has some new stuff. Grain of salt.
He says the Bucks were/are shopping Middleton. Why?
"JUST IN:!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Milwaukee is planning on being very active this FA and would love to land FVV even if they know it's not possible. They have been extremely aggressive. They even offered two 1sts and DDV for D. Graham and was declined by Charlotte.
The biggest news isn't that since that doesn't mean anything. The biggest news is they are shopping Khris Middleton for a PG and targeting Harrison Barnes to trade Bledsoe/fillers. I am more shocked that this is the 2nd team connected to Barnes who isn't that good. I've told you guys, Middleton has been a target for MIN for months and they id him early. This is my personal opinion so don't mark it as gold, while I would be shocked of a LaMelo trade, I know Milwaukee has called everyone and been SOL when it comes to an upgrade of Bledsoe who's value just isn't that high around the league. Trading Middleton might be there only chance of adding a PG like Holiday or one with the potential of Ball. "
(11-09-2020, 06:42 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]
Milwaukee is planning on being very active this FA and would love to land FVV even if they know it's not possible. They have been extremely aggressive. They even offered two 1sts and DDV for D. Graham and was declined by Charlotte.
The biggest news isn't that since that doesn't mean anything. The biggest news is they are shopping Khris Middleton for a PG and targeting Harrison Barnes to trade Bledsoe/fillers. I am more shocked that this is the 2nd team connected to Barnes who isn't that good. I've told you guys, Middleton has been a target for MIN for months and they id him early. This is my personal opinion so don't mark it as gold, while I would be shocked of a LaMelo trade, I know Milwaukee has called everyone and been SOL when it comes to an upgrade of Bledsoe who's value just isn't that high around the league. Trading Middleton might be there only chance of adding a PG like Holiday or one with the potential of Ball. "
This guys sounds like a crock of shit
(11-09-2020, 04:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-09-2020, 04:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]@"KillerLeft"
I am mostly responding to anyone who wants a shot at Giannis or another player next summer in free agency by saying the Mavs do NOT need to clear space now.
Getting off contracts now should be in no way a priority of any kind UNLESS you are targeting capspace THIS offseason (which is possible). If the Mavs are wanting to be a player next summer then just continue to Acquire Talented Trade-able Assets through the draft, through free agency with exceptions, and through trades. But do not "clear space"...way too premature for that IMO. You can clear space WHEN you need it as long as you have talented, trade-able assets.
There IS a level of contract you can't "just move next year to create space." There just is. And, there are several levels of contract below that will be difficult enough to move that you'd have to attach assets (which you don't have) to do so. I think it would be INSANE for the Mavs to hamstring themselves in that way, and not just because of Giannis. Like @"Mavs2019" points out, there will be other options!
I like @"DanSchwartzman"'s wording a lot, and it's what I've been trying to express for months. "You don't have to clear the decks, but you have to stay within easy striking distance."
Thanks for catching the nuance. I’m personally probably more an ATTA guy than a Plan Powder guy. But, I like to explore possibilities on all of the potential paths ahead of us. I would take Harris if the right things were attached. I’d also give up some assets in the right trade if it moves Wright for a more useful player on a one year. But, there are also versions of getting Harris and moving Wright I’m opposed to. The details matter.
As to clearing space now or later...Wright a year from now is a risk. I’m well aware his advanced stats are still pretty good. But, another year that ends like the last one and he will be further devalued. I’ll also point out that the TEAM probably thought Powell fit into the Easy-To-Move column...a year ago. Now he doesn’t. We are a Maxi or Curry injury away from not controlling our destiny. It makes me nervous when people say “we can always”. We can’t “always”. Between Powell’s injury and another bad season from Wright and one more injury we’d be forced (held hostage) to give up assets we don’t have to sign a max FA. So, moving on from Wright (at the right price) probably does make sense and adding multi year MLE types or trade targets should be taken on very cautiously IF powder for 21 is the plan.
(11-09-2020, 07:25 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/RTNBA/status/1325955961069182980
LOL I don't know why he'd think that. He was the one thing that could have held them back from a championship. Maybe he would look better on a more average team, but he was quite the dark blot for them in the bubble. I'd go so far as to say he's tied with Marcus Morris on my "do not want for the Mavs" list.
(11-09-2020, 08:31 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]As to clearing space now or later...Wright a year from now is a risk. .... It makes me nervous when people say “we can always”.
These are two very good points that I agree with.
1) Make sure you sell high on Wright and so if he is just going to be buried on the bench trade him NOW.
2) You are right that things do change and so waiting can cause a window to close. I agree with that for sure, I just think you have to still be patient and not pull the trigger too soon on clearing space when you don't know if you'll actually want/need it.