(09-25-2020, 07:49 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 03:59 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]What did he do to create such hype?
A small sample size combined with fans desperate to improve the DAL starting lineup. 
I like the player a lot, but not because I think he's a star or anything. I just think he's the TYPE of player the Mavs need to complete a DFS/KP front court. He has a different body than either of them, plays hard on defense, can hit open 3's, and seems to be a better driver than either of them. Perfect fit, imo.
When we started talking about him, the hypothetical offered was that he was a potential MLE target. I AM interested in him under that set of circumstances. If that's not the case, and he's going to get significantly more money than that from Denver or some other team, then I think you need to look elsewhere. It's possible he could be someone's third option, but I don't view it as a certainty that he lives up to that, even if he ends up getting paid that way. If I'm Denver and I KNOW how he fits with my team because I've seen it, maybe I feel better about that risk, but I can't get there from the perspective of another team, including the Mavs.
At some point, the salary turns something exciting into Tobias Harris, or worse, really, because I think it's easier to envision what Harris would look like here to more of a certainty.
(09-25-2020, 08:22 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I like the player a lot, but not because I think he's a star or anything.
You provided a perfect description in your post. The only option for Grant to come to Dallas would be if he just absolutely wants to come here, because he has a boycrush on Justin Jackson or some other Mavs member. I wouldn't offer over 15 per for him as I think he is not that good. I have a hard time seeing someone like Atlanta offering him 15+ millions. I think his realistic value is around 12-13 mil per. So my prediction is, he will stay in Denver somewhere around that amount. Denver likes him and he probably enjoys his individual and team success there.
(09-25-2020, 10:53 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2020, 11:00 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]We should’ve planted our Grant tree 6 years ago. He’d be just blooming by now
https://thumbor.forbes.com/thumbor/fit-i...it%3Dscale
While DFS has made me a believer in his ability to contribute this past year, I still like their Grant better than our Grant.
But you all in these two threads have convinced me that he is probably not worth that kind of money. If he can be had for $12-13 mil, though, I think the Mavs should get in on that. I repeat - I don't see any argument that he wouldn't be better than any current Mav outside of Luka and KP. Hopefully we can find ways to obtain two players of his caliber this offseason.
DAL in: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
DAL out: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 DAL 2nd (#31)
UTA in: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 GSW 2nd (#31)
UTA out: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
Why? Conley and O'Neale give Dallas some tools they need in the roster. With how they performed in the playoffs, I feel they would fit nicely with Doncic's wide-open looks. Conley brings another shot creator and can handle the ball to relieve Doncic a little. Royce would be the other 3&D guy next to DFS in the frontcourt. They move back a little in the draft and go safe with Bey's defense. Sign Burke to the min and get a wing defender (preferably someone that would take on guards, since Bey would be on the forwards) with the MLE and they have a good shot of going deep. Doesn't take us out of '21 FA since Conley's 35M would come off the books.
Doncic/Brunson/Burke (min)
Conley/Curry/Lee (min)
O'Neale/MLE
Finney-Smith/T. Bey (#23)/Powell
Porzingis/Kleber/Boban/WCS (PO)
I think Player Options are after the draft (Hardaway/Conley), so I'm kinda screwed there. What are your thoughts?
(09-25-2020, 11:27 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]DAL in: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
DAL out: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 DAL 2nd (#31)
UTA in: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 GSW 2nd (#31)
UTA out: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
Why? Conley and O'Neale give Dallas some tools they need in the roster. With how they performed in the playoffs, I feel they would fit nicely with Doncic's wide-open looks. Conley brings another shot creator and can handle the ball to relieve Doncic a little. Royce would be the other 3&D guy next to DFS in the frontcourt. They move back a little in the draft and go safe with Bey's defense. Sign Burke to the min and get a wing defender (preferably someone that would take on guards, since Bey would be on the forwards) with the MLE and they have a good shot of going deep. Doesn't take us out of '21 FA since Conley's 35M would come off the books.
Doncic/Brunson/Burke (min)
Conley/Curry/Lee (min)
O'Neale/MLE
Finney-Smith/T. Bey (#23)/Powell
Porzingis/Kleber/Boban/WCS (PO)
I think Player Options are after the draft (Hardaway/Conley), so I'm kinda screwed there. What are your thoughts?
You provided great work in the draft thread, but my response to this is no.
(09-25-2020, 11:27 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]DAL in: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
DAL out: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 DAL 2nd (#31)
UTA in: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 GSW 2nd (#31)
UTA out: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
Why? Conley and O'Neale give Dallas some tools they need in the roster. With how they performed in the playoffs, I feel they would fit nicely with Doncic's wide-open looks. Conley brings another shot creator and can handle the ball to relieve Doncic a little. Royce would be the other 3&D guy next to DFS in the frontcourt. They move back a little in the draft and go safe with Bey's defense. Sign Burke to the min and get a wing defender (preferably someone that would take on guards, since Bey would be on the forwards) with the MLE and they have a good shot of going deep. Doesn't take us out of '21 FA since Conley's 35M would come off the books.
Doncic/Brunson/Burke (min)
Conley/Curry/Lee (min)
O'Neale/MLE
Finney-Smith/T. Bey (#23)/Powell
Porzingis/Kleber/Boban/WCS (PO)
I think Player Options are after the draft (Hardaway/Conley), so I'm kinda screwed there. What are your thoughts?
The PO's are an issue, but so is O'Neale who is not trade-able until the new season...veteran extension at a pretty reasonable price. Simple solution...wait until the new season and leave out the picks. They don't really matter much in the grand scheme of things.
I like O'Neale on this team...a lot. Conley isn't long term, but he does help in some ways THJ doesn't and hits outside shots at a high rate...better in the corner than above the break. You are basically getting O'Neale for eating about $15mm in salary on the spread between THJ (who would fit well in Utah if they just admit Mitchell is their PG). Clarkson can stay as the third guard as they can now afford him better. Conley is also a large expiring deal at the TDL. I kind of like this.
(09-25-2020, 11:27 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]DAL in: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
DAL out: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 DAL 2nd (#31)
UTA in: Hardaway, Wright, Jackson, 2020 DAL 1st (#18), 2020 GSW 2nd (#31)
UTA out: Conley, O'Neale, 2020 UTA 1st (#23)
Why? Conley and O'Neale give Dallas some tools they need in the roster. With how they performed in the playoffs, I feel they would fit nicely with Doncic's wide-open looks. Conley brings another shot creator and can handle the ball to relieve Doncic a little. Royce would be the other 3&D guy next to DFS in the frontcourt. They move back a little in the draft and go safe with Bey's defense. Sign Burke to the min and get a wing defender (preferably someone that would take on guards, since Bey would be on the forwards) with the MLE and they have a good shot of going deep. Doesn't take us out of '21 FA since Conley's 35M would come off the books.
Doncic/Brunson/Burke (min)
Conley/Curry/Lee (min)
O'Neale/MLE
Finney-Smith/T. Bey (#23)/Powell
Porzingis/Kleber/Boban/WCS (PO)
I think Player Options are after the draft (Hardaway/Conley), so I'm kinda screwed there. What are your thoughts?
I like something like this maybe more at the trade deadline. If we have a couple guys underperforming and a change is needed i could see something like this. Without the picks though, maybe a few 2nd’s and whoever we pick at 31
Don’t think Utah would take that right now. They’re one of the few CP3 teams that makes sense too. If they trade conley i bet it’s a major upgrade
(09-25-2020, 11:43 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 11:35 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You provided great work in the draft thread, but my response to this is no.
Why?
I think Conley is at a point in his career in which he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.
(09-25-2020, 03:28 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 11:43 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 11:35 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You provided great work in the draft thread, but my response to this is no.
Why?
I think Conley is at a point in his career in which he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.
But you don't like Hardaway either. Both are rentals in a Plan Powder scenario, but THJ is pissed he didn't get extended and Conley is playing his heart out to get that one last contract. The other difference is with Conley you are picking up a useful guy in O'Neale on a reasonable multi-year deal. O'Neale plays D, hits his 3's and has been an on/off monster all three years in the league.
(09-25-2020, 03:46 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 03:28 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 11:43 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-25-2020, 11:35 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You provided great work in the draft thread, but my response to this is no.
Why?
I think Conley is at a point in his career in which he doesn't bring a whole lot to the table.
But you don't like Hardaway either. Both are rentals in a Plan Powder scenario, but THJ is pissed he didn't get extended and Conley is playing his heart out to get that one last contract. The other difference is with Conley you are picking up a useful guy in O'Neale on a reasonable multi-year deal. O'Neale plays D, hits his 3's and has been an on/off monster all three years in the league.
Was not familiar with O'Neale. His 3p% sure doesn't identify him as a lockdown shooter. Having Conley's contract prevents the Mavs from making other moves this offseason. I'm out.
To me Conley brings a lot more than THJ. Both are good shooters and bad defenders. Conley brings the ball-hanling ability and veteran presence of someone who already made a good run in the off-season. THJ's case is that he already has shown he's a good fit in the system. When we needed him the most, he crumbled. 41% FG, 35% from deep (30% on 3.3 attempts from wide-open 3's) becoming our less reliable shooter (besides Maxi) is unacceptable and not easy to forget (and forgive).
Am I missing something? Wasnt Conley an after thought this season in Utah?
(09-26-2020, 11:10 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Am I missing something? Wasnt Conley an after thought this season in Utah?
He had a rough year, but I wouldn't count him out of relevance just yet.
I don't think he's a fit with the Mavs though, because while I believe they need another ball handler/creator, my choice for that wouldn't be such a 'pure' PG type. The Mavs don't need someone to run the team, they need someone who can shoot, drive, finish and make smart passes to complement Luka's game. I think Conley is a little fish out of water in that role.
(09-26-2020, 11:14 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 11:10 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Am I missing something? Wasnt Conley an after thought this season in Utah?
He had a rough year, but I wouldn't count him out of relevance just yet.
I don't think he's a fit with the Mavs though, because while I believe they need another ball handler/creator, my choice for that wouldn't be such a 'pure' PG type. The Mavs don't need someone to run the team, they need someone who can shoot, drive, finish and make smart passes to complement Luka's game. I think Conley is a little fish out of water in that role.
They also need someone with the quarterbacking ability to run the team in Luka's absence with very good defense. A very rare combination of skills. That's why Jrue gets brought up so much - he's the perfect fit, and there are few players in the league like him. Schroder would be more gettable if the Mavs have overcome their strong aversion.
(09-26-2020, 11:21 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]They also need someone with the quarterbacking ability to run the team in Luka's absence with very good defense.
That's true. If I'm the Mavs, I'm looking for a guard who:
- Flourishes off ball when playing with Luka. Catch and shoot should be lethal. Should be able to drive and dish in situations where good teams are taking Luka out of the play. (against bad teams, Luka can always find a shooter out of a double, but in the playoffs, one pass won't always work)
- Can run the team at a high level by playing on ball when paired with Curry.
- Plays hard and intelligently on defense.
Bonus points if he's one of the rare NBA defensive "stoppers" but imo, the combination of all three of those attributes is more important than elite ability at any one of them.
Curry can do the first (at least the shooting part), Brunson can do the second, and you could convince me that either are capable of the third, but imo the ideal starter next to Luka should be able to do it all.
(09-26-2020, 11:21 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]They also need someone with the quarterbacking ability to run the team in Luka's absence with very good defense.
This keeps being said and noone is putting up the argument that Jalen Brunson is basically that guy. The very good defense is a stretch, but I think of him as an average defender, which in a second team is all I believe is fully needed.
The well defending starters can be sprinkled in to make up for non-elite level defense from JB and Curry, like for instance, KP who ran with the second team a lot so that one of Luka or KP was on the court throughout the game.
I really liked that coaching philosophy/development because I think KP mostly came into his own when he was a focal point as opposed to many times being an afterthought when Luka is on the court.
So what we "need" IMO is the other things said about a starting frontcourt partner with Luka. The quarterbacking when he's on the bench is a last thing on the list type thing to me.
That being said, if Luka is gonna continue playing 34-40 mpg, that only gives JB 8-14 mpg and I believe he is a better player than to play that few minutes.
(09-26-2020, 12:22 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (09-26-2020, 11:21 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]They also need someone with the quarterbacking ability to run the team in Luka's absence with very good defense.
This keeps being said and noone is putting up the argument that Jalen Brunson is basically that guy. The very good defense is a stretch, but I think of him as an average defender, which in a second team is all I believe is fully needed.
The well defending starters can be sprinkled in to make up for non-elite level defense from JB and Curry, like for instance, KP who ran with the second team a lot so that one of Luka or KP was on the court throughout the game.
I really liked that coaching philosophy/development because I think KP mostly came into his own when he was a focal point as opposed to many times being an afterthought when Luka is on the court.
So what we "need" IMO is the other things said about a starting frontcourt partner with Luka. The quarterbacking when he's on the bench is a last thing on the list type thing to me.
That being said, if Luka is gonna continue playing 34-40 mpg, that only gives JB 8-14 mpg and I believe he is a better player than to play that few minutes.
IGT, I get you, but perhaps I didn't make what I'm getting at clear. I think "that guy" has to be someone who can get his own shot *when Luka is on the floor,* for the express purpose of making the Mavs' offense more powerful at the end of a playoff game. I don't believe that Brunson plays well with Luka in any event (here comes Kamm with stats that say they're great together and that Scott's season-long eye-test is hooey), and he definitely isn't that elite creator next to Luka at the end of key games.
It's my belief that Brunson can't play well with Luka that makes me view him as our best trade asset other than Maxi or perhaps #18.