MavsBoard

(10-04-2020, 12:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I just can't imagine that Donnie/Cuban are sitting around dreaming about ways of turning THJ into OPJ right now.

Cuban always thinks big and is willing to take risks. The way he managed the Mavs is actually really similar to his business model.
Direct opposite is Ainge in Boston. Collecting smaller assets but not willing to sell the house when he gets the chance to trade for a player like AD.

(10-04-2020, 12:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I just can't imagine that Donnie/Cuban are sitting around dreaming about ways of turning THJ into OPJ right now.

I can’t understand after all your writing about what this team needs that you aren’t more onboard with this. Please explain your apathy.

(10-04-2020, 01:07 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2020, 12:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I just can't imagine that Donnie/Cuban are sitting around dreaming about ways of turning THJ into OPJ right now.

I can’t understand after all your writing about what this team needs that you aren’t more onboard with this. Please explain your apathy.

I just think you're overrating the dude a bit, and even if you're not, he just seems like the type of guy they have traditionally not gotten excited about. 

Look at the way they felt about Covington last year, for example. 

I think they'd tell you THJ is a better player than OPJ. Not even trying to get involved in whether that's true or false, I just have a feeling that's what they'd say and think.

Porter would be great ... my goal (Realistic 2) .. try to kick Hayward first, I guess he'll be available..Boston needs to dig deeper ... I thought of something to 3 Dallas
In: Hayward / Williams
out: Curry / Delon / Powell / Jackson / # 18

Boston
In: Aldridge / Curry
Out: Hayward / # 26

Spurs
Inowell / Delon / Jackson / # 18 / # 26
Out: Aldridge

Losing Curry and the selections hurts ... but get maximum space Fa 21 get hayward that fits perfect Luka / Thj / Hayward / Dfs / Kp
it's solid .... Porter would be my choice 2

Now Hayward is somebody I can see them getting excited about. I don't love it, but if healthy, he has the chance to solve some of their problems and if not, they're still teed up for 2021. 

I just think they look at high priced role players (which is what OPJ is) and say "nope" in kind of a blanket way, unless THEY give the contract out as a result of seeing how the player fits in with their team.

(10-04-2020, 01:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2020, 01:07 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2020, 12:44 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I just can't imagine that Donnie/Cuban are sitting around dreaming about ways of turning THJ into OPJ right now.

I can’t understand after all your writing about what this team needs that you aren’t more onboard with this. Please explain your apathy.

I just think you're overrating the dude a bit, and even if you're not, he just seems like the type of guy they have traditionally not gotten excited about. 

Look at the way they felt about Covington last year, for example. 

I think they'd tell you THJ is a better player than OPJ. Not even trying to get involved in whether that's true or false, I just have a feeling that's what they'd say and think.

Do we know how they felt about RoCo last year? What about now? Do we know why they continually feel less about high end defense as opposed to high end offense? Do we know why RC keeps talking about our defense needing to be better and the FO, maaaay be feeling this way? Why have you spent most of your posts talking about how much we need defense and 3D players when you feel this way? Why are you a constant wet blanket about ways to acquire such players?


I don’t understand the flip flopping going on with you about this.

You're confusing me with someone else @"ItsGoTime". We all think the defense needs to improve, sure, but I've been beating the "secondary playmaker" drum for the past month. 

I think OPJ makes them better, I'm just wondering whether they'd see him as THE missing piece. Let's say they trade for him...you realize they're just going to let him walk for cap space, right? Even if they strike out on everything they like better with that space, do you really think their fall back will be breaking him off some big guaranteed contract to keep him here as a 3 and D player? If they did opt to do that, do YOU think that makes them contenders? 

I'm just asking questions. I like the player, and if healthy, I see how he fits. I just don't think they're one, high-priced 3&D guy away, especially if the dude he replaces is their most effective catch and shoot guy.

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I can see them targeting a player LIKE OPJ with the MLE, maybe.

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(10-04-2020, 01:49 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Do we know how they felt about RoCo last year? 

Remember Harper talking about this on the telecast last year? 

Right around the time RoCo was available, Harper asked an assistant coach about him (can't remember which one, sorry). The guy pointed to DFS and said "DoDo is better, anyway."

I just think, right or wrong, they believe they can find that type of guy on a cheaper contract. It's just a feeling I have, obviously. No concrete info other than their track record.

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Also, honestly not sure if the Harrell rumors were even true, but if they were/are, half the stuff I think about the way the team should be built (and what I've written about here) in terms of how the front court should work has to be thrown in the trash. 

IF they like Harrell as a potential starter (big if), then I'm 100% positive they see OPJ as being too similar to DFS. I don't feel that way, but IF they like Harrell, then it seems like they REALLY want to have a 2-big lineup be among their best options.

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lol, sorry to be a "wet blanket." 

What's interesting to me is trying to figure out what THEY think, not trying to figure out how they can make what WE want happen in real life. I'm definitely not intending to ruin the fun for anyone else though, so I'll shut up for a while.

(10-04-2020, 01:19 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Porter would be great ... my goal (Realistic 2) .. try to kick Hayward first, I guess he'll be available..Boston needs to dig deeper ... I thought of something to 3 Dallas
In: Hayward / Williams
out: Curry / Delon / Powell / Jackson / # 18

Boston
In: Aldridge / Curry
Out: Hayward / # 26

Spurs
Inowell / Delon / Jackson / # 18 / # 26
Out: Aldridge

Losing Curry and the selections hurts ... but get maximum space Fa 21 get hayward that fits perfect Luka / Thj / Hayward / Dfs / Kp
it's solid .... Porter would be my choice 2

Why do the Spurs want any part of that deal?

(10-04-2020, 01:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think OPJ makes them better, I'm just wondering whether they'd see him as THE missing piece.

I have been trying to present him as A missing piece, not THE missing piece. I don’t want another star type player on this team to get his talent (or one of the 3’s talent) watered down. If they think of THJ as THE missing piece, I don’t know what to say about that other than some Scott inspired rant. Two stars is great with 3 guys like Smart, OPJ and RoCo (Jrue and others too) that can do most things at a high level with differing focuses. 


We have the hardest part figured out, I don’t get why this is made to be so much tougher (citing Dirk’s career as all the evidence needed). If they wouldn’t wet themselves to turn THJ into OPJ (if it would indeed be a possibility) with not much else than THJ and a first, that would be a big mistake and is easily citable for team building ineptitude.

How is that overrating OPJ?

(10-04-2020, 01:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Right around the time RoCo was available, Harper asked an assistant coach about him (can't remember which one, sorry). The guy pointed to DFS and said "DoDo is better, anyway."

Too much fast forwarding for me, I guess I need to slow it down a bit more than I have been. I can’t believe any coach that has no skin in the game actually believes that. If that type mentality is clouding our judgements on who we need to get, those people need to be purged. Why can’t DoDo and RoCo play on the same team, even on the same starting lineup? If we didn’t at least try to get in on that deal to see if they would bite all because “DoDo is better”...see above.

(10-04-2020, 01:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You're confusing me with someone else @ItsGoTime. We all think the defense needs to improve, sure, but I've been beating the "secondary playmaker" drum for the past month. 

Your first many posts were about not needing another big, but getting more wings that can shoot and guard the perimeter. What is that if not OPJ?

(10-04-2020, 01:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]What's interesting to me is trying to figure out what THEY think, not trying to figure out how they can make what WE want happen in real life. I'm definitely not intending to ruin the fun for anyone else though, so I'll shut up for a while.

So all you find interesting is predicting what they WILL do, not what they SHOULD do. That’s cool, I get it, it just helps me realize what mindsets are thinking about when they defend the FO saying “What else should they have done?”


Not trying to throw shade on that train of thought, as I try to mostly understand where a person is coming from. Is it ok to you for someone to bring to the table something they believe to be an avenue that tremendously helps this team? I know it is, so that is for sure rhetorical.

“so I'll shut up for a while”, please, please, pretty please don’t. You are for sure one of my favorite reads, even when I get frustrated with how wet that blanket is!

I like Porter and dislike THJ but considering all the time OPJ misses and the volume of shooting THJ provides, I don’t think flipping them moves the needle much and has a chance to backfire big if Porter gets hurt again.

(10-04-2020, 05:55 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I like Porter and dislike THJ but considering all the time OPJ missed over a year and a half as the only time he has missed significant time in the last 6 years and none of the injuries were very major for an NBA athlete and the volume of shooting THJ provides which OPJ could provide and THJ might slip back to his mean, I don’t think flipping them moves the needle much and has a chance to backfire big if Porter gets hurt again.

FIFY

For sure, OPJ might step on someone’s foot and twist his ankle again. I just see it as a string of bad luck that will revert back to what he did for the 4 years before this one and a half year string of bad luck and play 74-80 games per season. 

I think he replaces what THJ did this year on offense and helps tremendously with our defense. That to me is huge upside that should bully through any thoughts of ankle twist curses on him.

When did OPJ turn into the next big thing? I mean he is clearly better than THJ but he is not close to a healthy Oladipo, Hayward or even RoCo. Oladipo and Hayward are legit 2nd/3rd option. RoCo is a perennial all defense/DPOY candidat.
In my opinion Porter is in the "good starter" category. The great thing about him is that he is a net positive on offense and defense. Really balanced skill set and impact.
Looking at the asking price I would give up any combination of THJ,Wright, Jackson and 2nds. Not willing to give up a 1st for an expiring contract.

(10-04-2020, 02:28 PM)vaca Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2020, 01:19 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Porter sería genial ... mi objetivo (Realista 2) ... intenta patear a Hayward primero, creo que estará disponible ... Boston necesita profundizar ... Pensé en algo para 3 Dallas
In: Hayward / Williams
Fuera: Curry / Delon / Powell / Jackson / # 18

Boston
Entra: Aldridge / Curry
Fuera: Hayward / # 26

Spurs Entra
: Powell / Delon / Jackson / # 18 / # 26
Fuera: Aldridge

Perder a Curry y las selecciones duelen ... pero obtén el máximo espacio Fa 21 obtén hayward que se ajuste perfectamente a Luka / Thj / Hayward / Dfs / Kp
es sólido ... Porter sería mi elección 2

¿Por qué los Spurs quieren parte de ese trato?

Supongo que los Spurs son / inicio de Deverian ... una reconstrucción ... consigue 2 selecciones de 1 ronda ... por un veterano que expira ... parece un comienzo

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fair point ... I see that these guys expire as an advantage ... As long as it is a fair price ... Porter arrives, plays well and remains healthy .. you have advantages to re-sign (surely cheaper,) .. if it doesn't work, walk .. Same case for Hayward, (I would put DeRozan, in this bag ... Porter or J.Rich) ... also playing with Luka should be a compliment to these guys ... they would really enjoy their profession (I would pay to do it, I promise leave it all .. I'm not sure Rick will play me a lot hahaha)

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guys I try to quote them, etc ... I apologize if my messages look strange .. I struggle with the language and the technology is difficult for me

(10-05-2020, 01:15 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]When did OPJ turn into the next big thing? I mean he is clearly better than THJ but he is not close to a healthy Oladipo, Hayward or even RoCo. Oladipo and Hayward are legit 2nd/3rd option. RoCo is a perennial all defense/DPOY candidat.
In my opinion Porter is in the "good starter" category. The great thing about him is that he is a net positive on offense and defense. Really balanced skill set and impact.
Looking at the asking price I would give up any combination of THJ,Wright, Jackson and 2nds. Not willing to give up a 1st for an expiring contract.

Funny how people keep saying that I’m making him out to be the next big thing, or THE one when I’ve been going out of my way to explain he is an upgrade over THJ and just what this team needs. I mean, there are those that would have you believe that DoDo is better than RoCo after all.

A “good starter” is a large upgrade on this team, IMO. I believe in this system, with the stars we have, we would see the best version of him too. I don’t really think he would command a 1st either, but there are those that think so little of the assets we have that I have gone that direction. However, if it was between keeping a first and having OPJ on our team, I take OPJ every time, if I believed he would give us a legit shot at keeping him when he shows us how greatly he meshes with our guys, and stays healthy next season.

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(10-05-2020, 03:05 AM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2020, 02:28 PM)vaca Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-04-2020, 01:19 PM)Mike lorenzo Wrote: [ -> ]Porter sería genial ... mi objetivo (Realista 2) ... intenta patear a Hayward primero, creo que estará disponible ... Boston necesita profundizar ... Pensé en algo para 3 Dallas
In: Hayward / Williams
Fuera: Curry / Delon / Powell / Jackson / # 18

Boston
Entra: Aldridge / Curry
Fuera: Hayward / # 26

Spurs Entra
: Powell / Delon / Jackson / # 18 / # 26
Fuera: Aldridge

Perder a Curry y las selecciones duelen ... pero obtén el máximo espacio Fa 21 obtén hayward que se ajuste perfectamente a Luka / Thj / Hayward / Dfs / Kp
es sólido ... Porter sería mi elección 2

¿Por qué los Spurs quieren parte de ese trato?

Supongo que los Spurs son / inicio de Deverian ... una reconstrucción ... consigue 2 selecciones de 1 ronda ... por un veterano que expira ... parece un comienzo

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fair point ... I see that these guys expire as an advantage ... As long as it is a fair price ... Porter arrives, plays well and remains healthy .. you have advantages to re-sign (surely cheaper,) .. if it doesn't work, walk .. Same case for Hayward, (I would put DeRozan, in this bag ... Porter or J.Rich) ... also playing with Luka should be a compliment to these guys ... they would really enjoy their profession (I would pay to do it, I promise leave it all .. I'm not sure Rick will play me a lot hahaha)

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guys I try to quote them, etc ... I apologize if my messages look strange .. I struggle with the language and the technology is difficult for me

NP, we can figure out the gist of what you’re saying just fine.

(10-05-2020, 01:15 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion Porter is in the "good starter" category. The great thing about him is that he is a net positive on offense and defense. Really balanced skill set and impact.
Looking at the asking price I would give up any combination of THJ,Wright, Jackson and 2nds. Not willing to give up a 1st for an expiring contract.

I personally don't know of anyone saying anything different than this. THIS is why people want him.

(10-05-2020, 07:08 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-05-2020, 01:15 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion Porter is in the "good starter" category. The great thing about him is that he is a net positive on offense and defense. Really balanced skill set and impact.
Looking at the asking price I would give up any combination of THJ,Wright, Jackson and 2nds. Not willing to give up a 1st for an expiring contract.

I personally don't know of anyone saying anything different than this. THIS is why people want him.

Really...looking at the last few pages of this thread I saw names like Oladipo, Hayward and RoCo being compared to him. Especially his defense is getting overrated. I understand that people only make the comparisation because of a potential decline of the mentioned guys but it´s not like Porter comes without any question marks.
If you are telling me that we can get him for THJ and #31 I am all in. Especially if the Mavs can get some kind of agreement when it comes to a contract extention next year.
But some people are proposing to use all remaining assets (Mavs really don´t have a lot) in a Porter trade. I would hate to see the Mavs waste this years 1st for a one year rental of Porter.

(10-05-2020, 07:18 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-05-2020, 07:08 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-05-2020, 01:15 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]In my opinion Porter is in the "good starter" category. The great thing about him is that he is a net positive on offense and defense. Really balanced skill set and impact.
Looking at the asking price I would give up any combination of THJ,Wright, Jackson and 2nds. Not willing to give up a 1st for an expiring contract.

I personally don't know of anyone saying anything different than this. THIS is why people want him.

Really...looking at the last few pages of this thread I saw names like Oladipo, Hayward and RoCo being compared to him. Especially his defense is getting overrated. I understand that people only make the comparisation because of a potential decline of the mentioned guys but it´s not like Porter comes without any question marks.
If you are telling me that we can get him for THJ and #31 I am all in. Especially if the Mavs can get some kind of agreement when it comes to a contract extention next year.
But some people are proposing to use all remaining assets (Mavs really don´t have a lot) in a Porter trade. I would hate to see the Mavs waste this years 1st for a one year rental of Porter.

For salary purposes we'd have to do THJ and JJ. After that, I proposed a 2023 second to make Chi whole on their trade to get him with draft picks. I believe that would mostly beat any offer there is for OPJ, and if they didn't think so, I'd throw in another second and so on to the point where I would have no problem giving up the 2025 first. Beyond that I would say, OK, we'll just compete for him in FA after he then knows how much we wanted him.

Edit: While I don't think his defense is on par with RoCo, I think his contribution to offense on this team would be greater than RoCo's. I said previously that we need 3 guys like Smart, RoCo, OPJ, Jrue etc (even adding DoDo to that list) that can be great defenders that bring different other skillsets to balance out the starting unit.

(10-05-2020, 09:01 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]For salary purposes we'd have to do THJ and JJ. After that, I proposed a 2023 second to make Chi whole on their trade to get him with draft picks. I believe that would mostly beat any offer there is for OPJ, and if they didn't think so, I'd throw in another second and so on to the point where I would have no problem giving up the 2025 first. Beyond that I would say, OK, we'll just compete for him in FA after he then knows how much we wanted him.

I'm a big fan of OPJ on this team and would love to have him in his contract year if possible.  But, I see no point in trading THJ for him.  The idea is to ADD to the roster.  I'd much rather do a deal centered on Wright and Jackson with Lee filling in the needed salary.  BTW, OPJ would be eligible for an extension if we liked what we saw once he hit the court.

Chicago is truly the Island of Misfit Toys with new people at the top.  Who knows what they will do.  The trick with them (and anyone else where Wright might go) is figuring out if he's a fit there.  It is possible he could fit, but they would have to pass on a PG with their pick and not attempt to retain Dunn.  If they did those things they'd have Sato, White and LaVine.  Or, maybe they deal LaVine opening the need for another guard.  Is it possible Wright could be an asset?  Maybe.  Unfortunately, he could also be seen as an obstacle to max cap room in 2021.   Of course, OPJ would also be an obstacle which is why they might consider getting some value for him rather than letting him walk.  He is basically their only wing, so, drafting a wing or getting one in trade, might strengthen the argument that OPJ could be traded.  Lots of ifs there for any of this to feel very likely.

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(10-05-2020, 08:54 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]https://youtu.be/VXScVtbRaZU

So, you are advocating Jeff Green now?  That was really funny.

I thought it was especially interesting that he started to riff on OPJ at the end.

(10-05-2020, 11:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm a big fan of OPJ on this team and would love to have him in his contract year if possible.  But, I see no point in trading THJ for him.  The idea is to ADD to the roster.  I'd much rather do a deal centered on Wright and Jackson with Lee filling in the needed salary.  BTW, OPJ would be eligible for an extension if we liked what we saw once he hit the court.