MavsBoard

(10-27-2020, 08:38 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-27-2020, 08:28 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]No on Harris even if you get to dump Powell.

Yeah, yeah, we would all love our Gianis, Kawhis and other all stars. Mavs would love them too. But what if they can't have them and they know it?

Would be nice if Mavs had that realization but I doubt it. And Tobias Harris does nothing for me.

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(10-28-2020, 07:48 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 05:18 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Maxi plus THJ doesn't work in 20/21, but it does in 19/20 if both Hayward and Hardaway opt in.  Does such a deal get you a pick swap of 18 for 14?

I'm totally IN on this. 

Hayward is definitely an upgrade on THJ defensively and in offense creation and what you could get at #14 (SBey? Achiuwa? Patrick Williams?) could be an upgrade to Maxi in the long run.

Not in on this Hayward deal either. I like him as a player but not necessarily as a fit on this team and he's not enough of an upgrade over THJ to give up other stuff (Maxi, picks, etc). I imagine Celtics could find a better deal than what the Mavs could offer.

(10-28-2020, 02:29 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]That Hawks guy has these rumors:

He is hearing the same thing others are about Gordon Hayward. He is looking to opt-out. He is looking to resign or find an SnT deal to Dallas. This one is Boston's to lose. He seems to want to resign but with more years and a less competitive market than 2021.

Dallas has been extremely active and really wants to be a player in the SnT market. The issue is, they don't have much value to offer anyone. They are trying to make it clear, they need to be a player for Giannis. I just don't hear the interest from Giannis side. It's either MIL, GS, LAL, MIA, or TOR. The talk that it's Dallas is just not there. That said, they want to be a player for Kawhi in 2021 as well.

I can believe the Giannis part and Kawhi doesn't want to live in Dallas.   Now to Hayward, if Donnie is begging for a 3rd star and dealing with Ainge?  I hate to see the wreckage.  Only if Hayward's agent has true leverage over Ainge, will that possibly work.  (probably not)

I am not real excited by Hayward anyway.  Has to be better options.  I would rather move up in the draft and take my shot there than Hayward.

(10-28-2020, 06:31 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 06:21 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 05:26 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 05:18 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 02:29 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]That Hawks guy has these rumors:

He is hearing the same thing others are about Gordon Hayward. He is looking to opt-out. He is looking to resign or find an SnT deal to Dallas. This one is Boston's to lose. He seems to want to resign but with more years and a less competitive market than 2021.

Dallas has been extremely active and really wants to be a player in the SnT market. The issue is, they don't have much value to offer anyone. They are trying to make it clear, they need to be a player for Giannis. I just don't hear the interest from Giannis side. It's either MIL, GS, LAL, MIA, or TOR. The talk that it's Dallas is just not there. That said, they want to be a player for Kawhi in 2021 as well.

I hate to keep bringing this up, but Maxi would solve a lot of their big man issues.

I don't think Hayward is in Boston once Tatum's pay raise kicks in in 21.  They will have $104mm tied up in Walker, Smart, Brown and Tatum.  So, it would be in Boston and Hayward's best interest to do something now.  Maxi plus THJ doesn't work in 20/21, but it does in 19/20 if both Hayward and Hardaway opt in.  Does such a deal get you a pick swap of 18 for 14?

It's fair to bring it up, but this trade just helps Boston, not us.

We have to add a starter level player not lose one.

And most important this trade is still against trade rule number 1.

We didn’t lose a starter level player, we lost 2 good bench players and added a starter level one.

Last time I looked THJ and Maxi started in a playoff series and Hayward was in a suit as always.
 
Don't get me wrong, if our Docs aprove him, i'd like to add him.
But add, not swap him for THJ and lose Maxi an the way.

So you're changing from starter level to starters out of necessity, gotcha, just trying to keep up with the discussion changes.

surprised, strongly disagree ... I understand the concerns about whether he can stay healthy, ..but the guy is really good and a perfect fit.
I like Maxi / Thj but they are on another level. Hayward has been an Allstar and he's only 1/2 years older
I think.
We could probably sign long term cheaper We just caught Jrue (seems more realistic to me than Giannis) in FA 21 .. Jrue /Luka /Hayward /Dfs /Kp ...it's solid

I've never loved Hayward so grain of salt my opinion, but having his and KP's health concerns on one roster doesn't seem wise.

(10-28-2020, 02:29 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]That Hawks guy has these rumors:

He is hearing the same thing others are about Gordon Hayward. He is looking to opt-out. He is looking to resign or find an SnT deal to Dallas. This one is Boston's to lose. He seems to want to resign but with more years and a less competitive market than 2021.

Dallas has been extremely active and really wants to be a player in the SnT market. The issue is, they don't have much value to offer anyone. They are trying to make it clear, they need to be a player for Giannis. I just don't hear the interest from Giannis side. It's either MIL, GS, LAL, MIA, or TOR. The talk that it's Dallas is just not there. That said, they want to be a player for Kawhi in 2021 as well.

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

The fascinating thing about Hayward wanting to opt out to pursue a S&T in Dallas is that it also potentially fits with the secondary Dallas goal of keeping room for Giannis. The last thing a player who would like to stay in Dallas wants in '21 is a huge expiring contract (sorry, THJ), as the cap hold will require the team to renounce their rights to maximize space for other players. What you really want is to get there one year early on a long-term deal that preserves their space elsewhere. So arriving in a S&T now is more desirable than coming as an expiring contract or competing with bigger names for the same cap space next year.

The trick from Dallas's perspective is to acquire Hayward in a salary-neutral way. So the long-term salaries going out have to match the one coming in. For example, the most marketable realistic trade assets the Mavs have right now are probably Maxi and Curry. They're due just under $17mm in '21. So let's say Boston would take Maxi and Curry in a S&T (I bet they absolutely would, as they're good affordable players who could shoot, defend, and facilitate other trades). As long as Hayward makes no more than $17mm in '21, Dallas hasn't affected their cap space one dime. 

Since a S&T can be for 4 years, Dallas could structure the contract a few ways to make the total about $70mm. Would a guy like Hayward be willing to walk away from $34mm next season to guarantee $70mm and a prime role over 4 years in Dallas? It would be a shift of gears, for sure, but I certainly don't think it's out of the question at this point in his career. With what he's been through, I imagine security has a premium. And the rumor indicates that he's not sure those big contracts will be available for him in the competitive '21 marketplace anyway.

So I could see it. Maybe shuffle the players and salaries if you like. Or move Maxi/Curry/whoever to a 3rd team for a player Boston might want even more (Myles Turner, for example). There are multiple ways to get there if everyone is on the same page.

I get the concern over Hayward's injury history. That's extremely valid, especially considering where they are with KP already. 

But, some of you guys are TRIPPING about this. Hayward is EXACTLY what they need (if healthy). He's the epitome of "secondary playmaker." He can handle at a high level, create off of the dribble, has a variety of solutions to get shots off from lots of areas on the court, is smart enough to take what the defense gives (efficiently), can identify and make the correct pass, etc, etc. PLUS, while he CAN do all of that, he doesn't HAVE TO in order to contribute. He CAN play effectively off-ball. Good coming off of screens. Good catch and shoot skills. Again, this is the EXACT thing they have been looking for, imo. He's kind of like a much, much better version of Chandler Parsons (during his good year here)... 

...when healthy. 

If you have a chance to get that guy for Kleber and THJ, you pull the trigger and never look back. It would take some luck with the health factor for both he and KP, but at that point you'd finally have enough to start looking at role players. Then, the Richardsons, Covingtons, etc, would start to make sense. 

@"DanSchwartzman"'s idea of a pick swap is interesting, but I'm not sure how realistic it is. I don't care. I would do that deal with or without the added pick swap angle.

(10-28-2020, 11:09 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]So let's say Boston would take Maxi and Curry in a S&T (I bet they absolutely would, as they're good affordable players who could shoot, defend, and facilitate other trades). As long as Hayward makes no more than $17mm in '21, Dallas hasn't affected their cap space one dime.

This is a really interesting idea. 

If I am giving them Maxi AND Curry though for a guy they could lose I do want at least a pick swap to get #14 from them.

(10-28-2020, 05:18 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to keep bringing this up, but Maxi would solve a lot of their big man issues.

I don't think Hayward is in Boston once Tatum's pay raise kicks in in 21.  They will have $104mm tied up in Walker, Smart, Brown and Tatum.  So, it would be in Boston and Hayward's best interest to do something now.  Maxi plus THJ doesn't work in 20/21, but it does in 19/20 if both Hayward and Hardaway opt in.  Does such a deal get you a pick swap of 18 for 14?

1. If I am Boston, I would be looking for a much better center than Maxi.
2. The rummor is, Hayward would be opting out. This would make the trade easier money wise, because I would assume Hayward signs for less. Othwerwise, I would actually prefer Harris than Hayward at max contract... Big question is, what would motivate Boston to do this deal? I don't think THJ+Kleber is a really great value for them and it even doesn't get them out of tax if the line stays at 132. On the other hand, I am not really sure if Hayward is an upgrade over that combination. Is that really best they can do? What if we take some of their bad money they have in Kanter and Poirier?
3. I don't see any reason Boston would add pick swap to the trade. They are giving best player already. If anything, I would expext at least one pick going their way.
4. Three team with Hayward SnT that would net Boston a centre might be best option. Do they like Adams? Do they like Drummond?

(10-28-2020, 10:41 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I've never loved Hayward so grain of salt my opinion, but having his and KP's health concerns on one roster doesn't seem wise.

This is the best (maybe only) argument against the fit, imo.

(10-28-2020, 09:51 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 06:31 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 06:21 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 05:26 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 05:18 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to keep bringing this up, but Maxi would solve a lot of their big man issues.

I don't think Hayward is in Boston once Tatum's pay raise kicks in in 21.  They will have $104mm tied up in Walker, Smart, Brown and Tatum.  So, it would be in Boston and Hayward's best interest to do something now.  Maxi plus THJ doesn't work in 20/21, but it does in 19/20 if both Hayward and Hardaway opt in.  Does such a deal get you a pick swap of 18 for 14?

It's fair to bring it up, but this trade just helps Boston, not us.

We have to add a starter level player not lose one.

And most important this trade is still against trade rule number 1.

We didn’t lose a starter level player, we lost 2 good bench players and added a starter level one.

Last time I looked THJ and Maxi started in a playoff series and Hayward was in a suit as always.
 
Don't get me wrong, if our Docs aprove him, i'd like to add him.
But add, not swap him for THJ and lose Maxi an the way.

So you're changing from starter level to starters out of necessity, gotcha, just trying to keep up with the discussion changes.

I'm not!
Maxi is at least an top 150 player - that's starterlevel.
THJ was a top 90 player this season - that's a no. 3 or a no. 4 on a contender.

(10-28-2020, 11:19 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-28-2020, 05:18 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to keep bringing this up, but Maxi would solve a lot of their big man issues.

I don't think Hayward is in Boston once Tatum's pay raise kicks in in 21.  They will have $104mm tied up in Walker, Smart, Brown and Tatum.  So, it would be in Boston and Hayward's best interest to do something now.  Maxi plus THJ doesn't work in 20/21, but it does in 19/20 if both Hayward and Hardaway opt in.  Does such a deal get you a pick swap of 18 for 14?

1. If I am Boston, I would be looking for a much better center than Maxi.
2. The rummor is, Hayward would be opting out. This would make the trade easier money wise, because I would assume Hayward signs for less. Othwerwise, I would actually prefer Harris than Hayward at max contract... Big question is, what would motivate Boston to do this deal? I don't think THJ+Kleber is a really great value for them and it even doesn't get them out of tax if the line stays at 132. On the other hand, I am not really sure if Hayward is an upgrade over that combination. Is that really best they can do? What if we take some of their bad money they have in Kanter and Poirier?
3. I don't see any reason Boston would add pick swap to the trade. They are giving best player already. If anything, I would expext at least one pick going their way.
4. Three team with Hayward SnT that would net Boston a centre might be best option. Do they like Adams? Do they like Drummond?

Great points, one and all. I'm with you on all of this. I don't think Adams or Drummond are the guys, but who knows?

(10-28-2020, 11:09 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]The fascinating thing about Hayward wanting to opt out to pursue a S&T in Dallas is that it also potentially fits with the secondary Dallas goal of keeping room for Giannis. The last thing a player who would like to stay in Dallas wants in '21 is a huge expiring contract (sorry, THJ), as the cap hold will require the team to renounce their rights to maximize space for other players. What you really want is to get there one year early on a long-term deal that preserves their space elsewhere. So arriving in a S&T now is more desirable than coming as an expiring contract or competing with bigger names for the same cap space next year.

The trick from Dallas's perspective is to acquire Hayward in a salary-neutral way. So the long-term salaries going out have to match the one coming in. For example, the most marketable realistic trade assets the Mavs have right now are probably Maxi and Curry. They're due just under $17mm in '21. So let's say Boston would take Maxi and Curry in a S&T (I bet they absolutely would, as they're good affordable players who could shoot, defend, and facilitate other trades). As long as Hayward makes no more than $17mm in '21, Dallas hasn't affected their cap space one dime. 

Since a S&T can be for 4 years, Dallas could structure the contract a few ways to make the total about $70mm. Would a guy like Hayward be willing to walk away from $34mm next season to guarantee $70mm and a prime role over 4 years in Dallas? It would be a shift of gears, for sure, but I certainly don't think it's out of the question at this point in his career. With what he's been through, I imagine security has a premium. And the rumor indicates that he's not sure those big contracts will be available for him in the competitive '21 marketplace anyway.

So I could see it. Maybe shuffle the players and salaries if you like. Or move Maxi/Curry/whoever to a 3rd team for a player Boston might want even more (Myles Turner, for example). There are multiple ways to get there if everyone is on the same page.

I like your way of thinking a lot. The big sacrifice would have to be done by Hayward here. But, if he makes it, he has pretty much guaranteed 4 years on a team that is bound to become a contender. The problem for Hayward - it is not really guaranteed he stays on Dallas, as him at 17 million is an extremely value contract.

Can we ship Wright somewhere else in a three team trade to get Hayward salary above 20 mil?

If Gordon Hayward opts out then this doesn't really matter. I imagine he goes to a team willing to pay him a big pile of money.

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Remember y'all if 33 yr old Horford can get a 100 million dollars last year, then younger, better Hayward can certainly get more money and control where he goes. He knows if he opts-in he's going to get traded.

(10-28-2020, 11:59 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Remember y'all if 33 yr old Horford can get a 100 million dollars last year

I am trying to remember....did something happen in this past year where things might be different and the NBA market might have changed since Horford got that deal?

(10-28-2020, 11:59 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]If Gordon Hayward opts out then this doesn't really matter. I imagine he goes to a team willing to pay him a big pile of money.

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Remember y'all if 33 yr old Horford can get a 100 million dollars last year, then younger, better Hayward can certainly get more money and control where he goes. He knows if he opts-in he's going to get traded.

So, the rumor is that Hayward WANTS to sign in Dallas. I don't think it's nearly the impossibility you paint with the above. They'd want him, and Boston has reason to look to move on, but would benefit from trying to do so in a way that helps them. I'm not saying it will happen, but I can EASILY see it working IF it's true that all three parties are interested.

(10-28-2020, 12:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]the rumor is that Hayward WANTS to sign in Dallas.

Yep everything hinges on this.

This is possibly the "Luka effect" we have all been eagerly awaiting.

(10-28-2020, 12:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So, the rumor is that Hayward WANTS to sign in Dallas.

I need to go watch some Hayward highlight videos.

has this Hawks "insider" accurately predicted any other moves?

(10-28-2020, 12:40 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]has this Hawks "insider" accurately predicted any other moves?

He is just posting rumors of ongoing talks. These can actually happen or never materialize. He seems to have legit info and it is interesting to see some new ways of thinking. I just started to read that forum a week ago or so, so you are free to check the history. His info was, that cap will be only slightly lower than 115, so let's see how that goes.

https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431653-.../#comments