(10-20-2020, 02:13 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/10/fert...oster.html
Quote:“There’s no reason to blow up your roster. This is still our window, the next couple of years. James (Harden) and Russell (Westbrook) are in their early 30s. We’re not blowing up anything,” Fertitta said, per Jonathan Feigen of The Houston Chronicle (Twitter link). “We plan on contending. … We’re going to do whatever we have to do to win.”
Anyone who says stuff like that about Russell Westbrook is either lying to you, or lying to themselves.
(10-20-2020, 01:59 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2020, 10:34 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Lowe pod, AG's value around the league has fallen. Should we go for him (even though in the pod Simmons and Lowe are certain we are one of the Giannis destinations with Toronto/Miami and Milwalkee) ?
Is a Wright/Jackson/18 package realistic ?
All I heard was another solid 10 minutes of national media talking about Giannis to the Mavs. 
I´d try so hard to get rid of Powell+Wright right now for expiring contracts. We are the #1 FA destination.
This is not "Please Comicbook Dwight talk to us"-desperation. This is the " We are in a pandemic, All-Stars go in this line, roleplayers here, ring chasing veterans over there, and here is the VIP entrance for superstars"-party.
I like your enthusiasm, but the Mavs have to take the next step to catch up to the Lakers and Miami at this point.
I'm not saying Giannis to the Mavs is a probability, but I think it's funny that some of the people worried about losing Luka in FA are the same ones who seem scared to think big with team building.
This is the era of the NBA we have for the foreseeable future. Players will team up through free agency, and so LA and Miami have an advantage for no other reason than because those are the two best places in our country to live, particularly during the winter months. There are a bunch of other places where players can be happy, too: NY, Boston, Chicago, GS, Houston, and yes, absolutely Dallas should be on this tier. Different individual people are going to rank these cities in different orders, but none of them is a small market, depressing place.
Since SOME teams are ALWAYS going to build like this for the foreseeable future, becoming "super teams," then in order to WIN, you must build a roster that's equal to or greater than a "super team." This is simply a fact. Not trying to build such a roster is essentially inviting a repeat of Dirk's career, only without the three shots at a title he got, probably.
Luka, Giannis and KP might seem like an absurd amount of talent, but in this era, it's really just the cover charge at the door, the price to get into the "contenders" club. It's where team building BEGINS, not where it ENDS. It doesn't have to be Giannis, but this team is 100% still missing something GREAT. Until they have it, all of the Josh Richardson, OPJ, Aaron Gordon "meh" guys are pointless. Luka isn't going to stick around to play on a team full of guys like that, with no flexibility. My strong feeling is that Giannis will leave Milwaukee for the same reason.
Riley is going to build a team in Miami. Boston is about to figure things out. The Lakers already have Lebron and AD, with improvement on the way. The Clippers will probably figure things out. The Warriors have more left in them. The Nets have a chance to be amazing.
Does anyone reading this expect Denver to win a championship with Jokic? I don't, either, and it's not about the player - he's amazing. It's because I have no doubt that Denver will screw themselves by not landing on the right plan. They're right where the Mavs were with Dirk. They don't know what to do with him. All of the teams in the previous paragraph are looking at Denver, Dallas and the other teams not listed with great players as farm teams right now.
Dallas HAS to get Giannis, or something else at or near that level, or it's game over. It is time to think BIG. This is absolutely the time for the Mavs to push their chips in for a move like that, and Luka is how they'll be taken seriously this time around. He is the franchise's ticket to the NBA inner circle. To gain respect in the NBA, you need to create a DYNASTY. Luka is that type of historical guy. Others will recognize this and find their way here to play with him if you stay flexible enough to capitalize on the right opportunities. It's the next two off seasons or never. If they aren't championship contenders when Luka signs that rookie max extension, then I think there's a decent chance that the extension will simply be a countdown to the moment Luka bounces.
(10-20-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas HAS to get Giannis, or something else at or near that level, or it's game over.
They HAVE to add an MVP caliber player to Luka/KP? That seems incredibly extreme. I just cannot agree with that.
I am fine with the Mavs "thinking big" (as long as they are being sober about it) but I also saw Luka's growth this year and am 100% confident he can win a championship(s) without another MVP caliber player on his team. Luka is THAT good. He needs strong role players more than he needs an MVP alongside him.
I don't think anyone is scared to dream big. If Giannis or any other super star wants to come here, they'll come here. I think where justifiable doubt comes in is that if there is an undecided player we have some factors working against us:
-MBT have been inept at recruiting big time free agents. We can't even seem to get meetings these days.
-Dallas isn't a destination city.
-Easter conference while improved, still seems like an easier path to the finals than the Western Conference.
-Ric Carlisle might turn off some prospects. Keyword: MIGHT
Maybe the draw of Luka and KP can help overcome some or all of that, but I think a lot of us are just beaten down by the MBT failures after 2011.
(10-20-2020, 03:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas HAS to get Giannis, or something else at or near that level, or it's game over.
They HAVE to add an MVP caliber player to Luka/KP? That seems incredibly extreme. I just cannot agree with that.
I am fine with the Mavs "thinking big" (as long as they are being sober about it) but I also saw Luka's growth this year and am 100% confident he can win a championship(s) without another MVP caliber player on his team. Luka is THAT good. He needs strong role players more than he needs an MVP alongside him.
If he's "THAT good," then you don't sell him short. That's my whole point. He's soooo good that possibilities are about to come that never would've presented themselves to this franchise before. This is a once in the life of a franchise opportunity, and if they handle it correctly, they could stand a better chance of getting ANOTHER Luka some day in the future, when our kids are in their 40's. I'm dead serious. Teams like the Lakers, Celtics and Heat have fan bases who EXPECT greatness. Ours is like "we're very lucky, I hope we can stay under the radar and just not screw this up." I'm telling you, man, this is their chance to get on the level of those other teams, and not just over the next few years, but HISTORICALLY. F yes, Luka is "THAT good."
I don't think the search should be limited to MVP candidates, that's just a label. I do think they need to look for players who you could envision playing in an all-star game. Players who can command a double team and know how to exploit that to hurt the defense. Players who can take the big shot when Luka is taken out of the play by the defense. Whose physical presence alone affects the game in positive ways. Difference makers. I think KP is great, and he can do some of that, but not enough of it, and not consistently enough. When KP is not depended upon to be the guy I'm talking about, then team building will start in earnest.
It is irresponsible fandom to convince yourselves that this team is a good pick at #18 and Robert Covington away from reaching contender status. Far, far from it. You are setting yourselves up for bitter remorse.
I think you gotta get that third guy. LAL/LAC/GSW will start the year as the favorites in the West. Nuggets I think will make a big move. Rockets are a wildcard and the rest of the teams have question marks. Mavs imo could get to the top of the 2nd tier pretty quickly if they get Dipo who is a legit 2nd or 3rd best player on a very good team.
(10-20-2020, 04:09 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I think you gotta get that third guy. LAL/LAC/GSW will start the year as the favorites in the West. Nuggets I think will make a big move. Rockets are a wildcard and the rest of the teams have question marks. Mavs imo could get to the top of the 2nd tier pretty quickly if they get Dipo who is a legit 2nd or 3rd best player on a very good team.
I don't think he is, but he has an outside chance to be, at least. And, he gets you one step closer to the meeting that could ultimately define the future of the Dallas Mavericks. I do it, but only if Wright or Powell (or in a perfect world, both) are outgoing.
Kennard would be a definite upgrade over Wright. I would probably do that just because it would be an asset upgrade and Kennard could be traded at a later time. The issue with guys like this is that it just double down on the Mavs strengths, at some point we need some guys who play defense. But I still think it would be a good use of 18 if you couldn't find a better deal.
(10-20-2020, 04:36 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]I would do this.
Not thinking twice. Get rid of two negative assets and take a look at another young shooter. Not super high on Kennard but compared to Jackson he is a big upgrade.
Back to plan Home-Dipo...
If you do get Dipo for Wright/Boban/Jackson + 18/31 you free up 2 spots in the process. I think WCS, Lee will come back, JJB probably moves on or retires and MKG doesn't come back. Also per Cato I think Burke has a good chance at coming back.
That would give you basically 3-4? spots to add some wings, though I doubt any of them will knock our socks off. We would use those spots to try to get some guys with more defensive ability than we had last year.
Rotation:
Luka/Brunson/Burke
Dipo/Curry/FA Wing
THJ/FA Wing x 2/Lee
DFS/Maxi/FA Wing
KP/WCS/Powell
I would be IN on that Kennard trade.
24 years old (fits the timeline), can play some PG when needed but great off the ball (43% catch and shoot threes for his career). He is also not terrible on D, being a neutral or slight positive for team D. My only question is what does his payday look like when his rookie scale ends after 2021?
(10-20-2020, 04:44 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Kennard would be a definite upgrade over Wright. I would probably do that just because it would be an asset upgrade and Kennard could be traded at a later time. The issue with guys like this is that it just double down on the Mavs strengths, at some point we need some guys who play defense. But I still think it would be a good use of 18 if you couldn't find a better deal.
If none of my "can't miss" guys were available at 18, then this would be my take as well. I do think that Kennard is quite a bit better playmaker than THJ, such that if it were between the two for, say, $10 mil per starting in '21, I'd rather have Kennard. That frees up the opportunity to trade THJ for a better expirer if nothing else. I don't know Kennard all that well, but my impression is that he wouldn't be much of a falloff from THJ defensively.
(10-20-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not saying Giannis to the Mavs is a probability, but I think it's funny that some of the people worried about losing Luka in FA are the same ones who seem scared to think big with team building.
This is the era of the NBA we have for the foreseeable future. Players will team up through free agency, and so LA and Miami have an advantage for no other reason than because those are the two best places in our country to live, particularly during the winter months. There are a bunch of other places where players can be happy, too: NY, Boston, Chicago, GS, Houston, and yes, absolutely Dallas should be on this tier. Different individual people are going to rank these cities in different orders, but none of them is a small market, depressing place.
Since SOME teams are ALWAYS going to build like this for the foreseeable future, becoming "super teams," then in order to WIN, you must build a roster that's equal to or greater than a "super team." This is simply a fact. Not trying to build such a roster is essentially inviting a repeat of Dirk's career, only without the three shots at a title he got, probably.
Luka, Giannis and KP might seem like an absurd amount of talent, but in this era, it's really just the cover charge at the door, the price to get into the "contenders" club. It's where team building BEGINS, not where it ENDS. It doesn't have to be Giannis, but this team is 100% still missing something GREAT. Until they have it, all of the Josh Richardson, OPJ, Aaron Gordon "meh" guys are pointless. Luka isn't going to stick around to play on a team full of guys like that, with no flexibility. My strong feeling is that Giannis will leave Milwaukee for the same reason.
Riley is going to build a team in Miami. Boston is about to figure things out. The Lakers already have Lebron and AD, with improvement on the way. The Clippers will probably figure things out. The Warriors have more left in them. The Nets have a chance to be amazing.
Does anyone reading this expect Denver to win a championship with Jokic? I don't, either, and it's not about the player - he's amazing. It's because I have no doubt that Denver will screw themselves by not landing on the right plan. They're right where the Mavs were with Dirk. They don't know what to do with him. All of the teams in the previous paragraph are looking at Denver, Dallas and the other teams not listed with great players as farm teams right now.
Dallas HAS to get Giannis, or something else at or near that level, or it's game over. It is time to think BIG. This is absolutely the time for the Mavs to push their chips in for a move like that, and Luka is how they'll be taken seriously this time around. He is the franchise's ticket to the NBA inner circle. To gain respect in the NBA, you need to create a DYNASTY. Luka is that type of historical guy. Others will recognize this and find their way here to play with him if you stay flexible enough to capitalize on the right opportunities. It's the next two off seasons or never. If they aren't championship contenders when Luka signs that rookie max extension, then I think there's a decent chance that the extension will simply be a countdown to the moment Luka bounces.
Whole-heartedly disagree. What we MUST do is make sure KP stays healthy. If that happens, we have just as many great players as the Champ Lakers have. As the Heat have. As the Nets have. As the Warriors have. None of those teams HAVE to HAVE 3 stars to be considered contenders, but we DO?
NO, we HAVE to upgrade the other players into better fitting, better playing, well priced parts. If we get another star to say YES, we sell off those great pieces (getting draft and/or low priced assets in return) to make room for the other star.
@"ItsGoTime" KP is NOT a creator, the way Davis, Jokic and other great bigs are. We want him to be, but he's not. Maybe he can be in the future, but as you say, health is a concern. In that way, no, I don't agree that he's on the same level as the other great players from the teams you mentioned.
He's GREAT. Don't get me wrong, but he is essentially the best floor spacer in the league on offense. He's a much better version of Vucevic or Myles Turner. This is a great player to have, but not in the same way Davis and Jokic are. Adebayo is better. Embiid and KAT are better when they play hard. I love the player, and I'm glad the Mavs have him. Perfect, fit wise, and a 5 who can pull Davis (and those like him) away from the paint is going to be key in the years to come. But the fact remains that he can't INITIATE offense. Every other team has multiple options who can do this. On those teams, those options can fill in for each other as players rest or play at the same time during important stretches.
Carlisle was so desperate for playmaking in the playoffs that he gave the ball and a ton of minutes to BURKE. KP's injury had nothing to do with that. If KP would've been out there, Burke would've played even better, but he still would've had the ball. They NEED people besides Luka who can threaten the defense in multiple ways. EVERY TEAM WHO MADE IT PAST THE FIRST ROUND HAD THIS.
(10-19-2020, 11:15 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (10-19-2020, 10:48 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Dipo is extremely low risk scenario. If he works out and wants to stay, great. If not, we have our cap space for 2021. Paying #18 and some role players is like he was given away.
I just fundamentally disagree with this.
1) He had a PER of 11.3 last year and only 17.6 before the injury.
2) He shot 39% and 31% (27.5% on catch and shoot) on threes and yet 42% of his shots were threes (!) last year. He shot only 42% before the injury.
3) He struggled to share the ball with Brogdon whose usage is NOTHING compared to Luka.
4) He had a devastating injury that is worse than an ACL and relies on elite athleticism to be successful.
5) He has had ONE great year in seven seasons.
Giving up assets of any kind (especially first round picks) is extremely risky to me for him. I think you actually have a better chance hitting in the draft on #18 than you do getting Dipo to be a good and healthy fit in DAL.
One man's opinion. We'll see what happens with his career.
That sums up my concerns and even convinces me more that Dipo is a bad fit. While I'm intrigued by his potential... He has not been good when not a ball dominant guard.
However there is a lot of talent there and I have faith in Rick to figure it out. At the cost I think he goes for... I'm interested.
That being said... He's pretty far down my list of wishlist moves for the offseason. He's probably like the 10th option which says alot about the concerns considering how talented he is.
(10-20-2020, 06:12 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]@"ItsGoTime" KP is NOT a creator, the way Davis, Jokic and other great bigs are. We want him to be, but he's not. Maybe he can be in the future, but as you say, health is a concern. In that way, no, I don't agree that he's on the same level as the other great players from the teams you mentioned.
He's GREAT. Don't get me wrong, but he is essentially the best floor spacer in the league on offense. He's a much better version of Vucevic or Myles Turner. This is a great player to have, but not in the same way Davis and Jokic are. Adebayo is better. Embiid and KAT are better when they play hard. I love the player, and I'm glad the Mavs have him. Perfect, fit wise, and a 5 who can pull Davis (and those like him) away from the paint is going to be key in the years to come. But the fact remains that he can't INITIATE offense. Every other team has multiple options who can do this. On those teams, those options can fill in for each other as players rest or play at the same time during important stretches.
Carlisle was so desperate for playmaking in the playoffs that he gave the ball and a ton of minutes to BURKE. KP's injury had nothing to do with that. If KP would've been out there, Burke would've played even better, but he still would've had the ball. They NEED people besides Luka who can threaten the defense in multiple ways. EVERY TEAM WHO MADE IT PAST THE FIRST ROUND HAD THIS.
I don't agree that you HAVE to have a star playing initiator though. Jrue is NOT a star and I think even you have said he is the perfect fit. This is changing your point made in the previous post from STAR to INITIATOR. I can agree with the initiator, can't agree with the star.
(10-19-2020, 02:34 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently Windhorst proposed this trade on a podcast
Oladipo for Wright, Jackson, Boban, 18, 31
I would do this deal for Powell instead of Jackson and Boban.
If you manage to get rid of Wright and Powell in any deal it's a huge win for next year. If Dipo doesn't work and he walks. You still win the trade assuming you find a way to put that cap space to use.