(11-20-2020, 07:37 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Back to trade options. Who says no?
Wright + Jackson + 2 2nds --> Bogdan
Sign and trade. Bogdan gets 4/60. Would easily beat the Bucks offer.
Powell + future 1st --> Tucker + McLemore
I know that this is more of a pipe dream because the Mavs love Powell but giving up a 1st to get rid of his bad contract makes a lot of sense. Especially if they could get two rotation players in return. Houstons is rebuilding. So far no team is willing to give up a 1st for Tucker. Might be worth it for them.
Sac has got enough PG's. They'd want THJ more then they could flip him for more if they wanted. Then use wright/JJ for a 4 or 5 like Dedmon/drummond/olynyk. MLE for a wing and thatd be an amazing offseason for me.
(11-20-2020, 06:07 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2020, 02:25 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas finished 2nd in the RoCo sweepstakes. Portlands 2021 1st rounder put them over the top.
This hurts to read. But also understandable. Portland paid a ransom for RoCo. He isn't worth that, no matter how good his fit was.
I think Richardson brings 90% of what RoCo brings, AND we got a pick with him too.
Mavs would have done both deals. It hurts bc I would have loved RoCo playing PF in our starting lineup. DFS could have been bumped to the bench.
A few thoughts before the day gets going...
I think it is wishful thinking to project the spending of the MLE on one player and a trade for another (I've seen a lot of fantasy trades adding two starter-level guys lately). I suspect it will be a trade and they save the MLE for into the season. The most practical reason is you have to start planning for salary once Luka moves from Rookie deal to his Max. If we get a multi-year guy today and project out Richardson/THJ money into the future we will get to the tax. I think the team would like to have the MLE to be opportunistic during the season and also be in position to use it in 21. I get that 22 is a long ways away, but reams plan out salary well into the futue.
I don't expect THJ to be traded today. He's a substantial part of what we do and bringing in Richardson hides his lack of playmaking. I actually think the odds of an extension are higher than the odds of a trade.
Bogdonovic is redundant. He won't be a target today. IF WCS doesn't return and with Powell and KP a bit gimpy to start the season, our only full-time healthy big is Maxi (Boban is not full time). We need another body up front (I actually think we need WCS back also and I hope he re-signs here).
We saw the minimal return Bogdonovic brought (and that was as a RESTRICTED FA). All we have to do to S & T for an unrestricted free agent is give the other team something better than losing said player for nothing. Wright is better than nothing. I think he's needed in Detroit and I think they have made several moves that look like they are preparing themselves for life after Christian Wood. Trading Kennard for a rookie SF (Bey) gives them even less playmaking. They also traded away Bruce Brown. Did I mention that Dwayne Casey knows Wright well.
Carlisle has long used vertical spacing as part of his offense and Wood is an excellent vertical spacer. But, unlike Powell, he can shoot from the perimeter. He'll get shoved around by Anthony Davis just like Powell does, but with KP and Maxi eating up minutes at C and Wood/Powell eating up minutes as vertical spacers it allows DFS to back up THJ at SF and be the Swiss Army Knife off the bench (a great role for him).
Anyway, my read of the tea leaves is Wood in a S&T deal for Wright. I hope it stops there because that means the money is capped at $14mm to start. But, it wouldn't surprise me if Jackson was included and the money was closer to $17mm.
(11-20-2020, 07:37 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Who says no?
Wright + Jackson + 2 2nds --> Bogdan
Sign and trade. Bogdan gets 4/60. Would easily beat the Bucks offer.
1. Sacramento now has 2 PG that will play big minutes in Fox and Haliburton. They also have Joseph as back up PG. I see no reason for them to take Wright contract to be a third string PG
2. Sacramento loved DiVinzenzo in the Milwaukee offer. Do 2 seconds offset that? I am not so sure. Jackson is just a salary filler.
Wood S&T sounds good to me if it happens.
Moving DFS to the bench would mean we'd have the Brunson/DFS/Maxi/Powell bench mob from 2018 back, but with 2 more years of seasoning. And the starting lineup they'd be supporting would be, uh, significantly better than the 2018 team.
Yeah I can’t wait for all our “pie in the sky” scene riots to not come for fruition and the people on here claiming how the “Mavs did nothing as usual”.
Look they could go into the season today and be better than they were last year IMP(provided they get WCS or some other big in here).
They’ll have a healthy Powell(at some point) and Brunson. And the rest of the team will be a year older end more experience. Luka could have another, even if slight, level to go up as well.
If they keep THJ I’m fine. Unlike most of you I think he’s fine as a solid 3rd/4th option. Maybe Richardson supplants him now that he’s on a much better offense. That can work.
Wright/Jackson will bet you something. Even if it’s not A Gallo or Bogdon level piece. Might jusy be a solid depth or a low end starter(like DFS or Maxi) that fits better.
Basically I’m saying even if they don’t make a huge splash or something I’m excited going into next year.
I also agree that THJ is more likely to be extended than traded. I don't think we're ready for the types of salaries some of these wings are going to get on the market. I heard Kevin O'Connor say he's hearing some of the rumored numbers like Bertrans and Gallo could get are crazy. Like high teens and even 20+ million a year. There's just such a high demand for wings, and there is no supply. So we know the types of players who are grossly overpaid, because they pick up their player options within .0000001 seconds of the window opening because they know there isn't a chance in hell that they'll get anything close to their current salary on the market. Like Andre Drummond, Nic Batum and DeMar DeRozen don't wait until the day before free agency to announce they're picking up their player option. THJ does. Because maybe he doesn't get 19.5 on the open market, but it's close enough that you could listen to offers and think it over. So however badly you think THJ got overpaid in 2017, you need to get over it because this isn't 2017 anymore.
Yeah the idea that THJ is overpaid is a bit of a overstatement.
Especially when guys similar to him will be grtting comparative or even higher salaries.
I wish he was more like 15 mil myself. But I don’t think the Mavs are hurting by paying him the going rate either
(11-20-2020, 09:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, my read of the tea leaves is Wood in a S&T deal for Wright.
Agree this seems reasonable. But Wood is not a strong defender and he's certainly not a beefy enforcer. I've read Wood has been trying to maintain weight and Casey even said he needs to get stronger. His ideal playing weight is 240. I believe he played around 230 last year. I've heard he's down to 220 now. That doesn't speak to his maturity or work ethic during the offseason -- both of which have been major question marks for Wood over his career.
The upside on Wood is there but how comfortable are you committing $60-70M to a player who looks a who lot like the next Whiteside? ... especially when Carlisle has had great success finding rim rolling bigs off the scrap heap. For example, a guy like WCS might give you 80% of Wood, at 20% of the price.
I'm also concerned about playmaking. As much as I like the Richardson deal, one could argue his was overexposed in Philly. Would the Mavs prefer a legit no 2 initiator (e.g. Kemba Walker) to ease the burden on Doncic?
(11-20-2020, 09:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]A few thoughts before the day gets going...
I think it is wishful thinking to project the spending of the MLE on one player and a trade for another (I've seen a lot of fantasy trades adding two starter-level guys lately). I suspect it will be a trade and they save the MLE for into the season. The most practical reason is you have to start planning for salary once Luka moves from Rookie deal to his Max. If we get a multi-year guy today and project out Richardson/THJ money into the future we will get to the tax. I think the team would like to have the MLE to be opportunistic during the season and also be in position to use it in 21. I get that 22 is a long ways away, but reams plan out salary well into the futue.
I don't expect THJ to be traded today. He's a substantial part of what we do and bringing in Richardson hides his lack of playmaking. I actually think the odds of an extension are higher than the odds of a trade.
Bogdonovic is redundant. He won't be a target today. IF WCS doesn't return and with Powell and KP a bit gimpy to start the season, our only full-time healthy big is Maxi (Boban is not full time). We need another body up front (I actually think we need WCS back also and I hope he re-signs here).
We saw the minimal return Bogdonovic brought (and that was as a RESTRICTED FA). All we have to do to S & T for an unrestricted free agent is give the other team something better than losing said player for nothing. Wright is better than nothing. I think he's needed in Detroit and I think they have made several moves that look like they are preparing themselves for life after Christian Wood. Trading Kennard for a rookie SF (Bey) gives them even less playmaking. They also traded away Bruce Brown. Did I mention that Dwayne Casey knows Wright well.
Carlisle has long used vertical spacing as part of his offense and Wood is an excellent vertical spacer. But, unlike Powell, he can shoot from the perimeter. He'll get shoved around by Anthony Davis just like Powell does, but with KP and Maxi eating up minutes at C and Wood/Powell eating up minutes as vertical spacers it allows DFS to back up THJ at SF and be the Swiss Army Knife off the bench (a great role for him).
Anyway, my read of the tea leaves is Wood in a S&T deal for Wright. I hope it stops there because that means the money is capped at $14mm to start. But, it wouldn't surprise me if Jackson was included and the money was closer to $17mm.
The first three paragraphs contain all the stuff I've been trying to figure out how articulate. You nailed it.
Part of me thinks the Wood thing is pie in the sky, but part of me looks at the roll the Mavs are on and won't count them out.
I'd rather someone else overpay Christian Wood. I guess we need someone to fill in while KP and Powell are out but not paying some flash in the pan 4/60 to fill that role. Having both Powell and Wood locked in on relatively big deals seems crazy to me. If Powell wasnt here you could maybe talk me in to Wood.
When comparing Wood to Larry Sanders, I get the concern about a paying someone a big contract who doesn't have a long established track record, but I would make a couple of points....
a) I think one of the reasons why Woods might be appealing to the Mavs is they had him on their Summer League team previously. It's always a scary proposition to pay someone huge money when you don't have any real first hand working knowledge of who they are day in and day out. At least the Mavs have had some sort of first hand organizational interaction with Wood to offer some insight into his character and work ethic.
b) I generally think motor and work ethic are kinda innate skills, every bit as much like height or leaping ability. Sanders never wanted to be an NBA player, he just hit the genetic lottery that gave him this amazing paycheck and he had to play himself out of an NBA job or outright quit to get out of it. If Sanders had to face Wood's route into the NBA, he would have never made it. It would have been too much adversity and not worth the effort to him. Meawhile, guys like Wood who go undrafted and bounce around Summer Leagues and G League's and then work their way into an NBA career .. those guys are just wired differently. There's too many chances to quit and move on with your life. You have to be wired differently to fight and claw and scratch an NBA career out of that. Think Raja Bell. Or Patrick Beverly. or Udonis Haslem. Or Bruce Bowen. Does guys don't just quit once they finally get paid.
(11-20-2020, 09:47 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2020, 09:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, my read of the tea leaves is Wood in a S&T deal for Wright.
Agree this seems reasonable. But Wood is not a strong defender and he's certainly not a beefy enforcer. I've read Wood has been trying to maintain weight and Casey even said he needs to get stronger. His ideal playing weight is 240. I believe he played around 230 last year. I've heard he's down to 220 now. That doesn't speak to his maturity or work ethic during the offseason -- both of which have been major question marks for Wood over his career.
The upside on Wood is there but how comfortable are you committing $60-70M to a player who looks a who lot like the next Whiteside? ... especially when Carlisle has found great success finding rim rolling bigs off the scrap heap. For example, a guy like WCS might give you 80% of Wood, at 20% of the price.
So, the concerns about Wood could be valid. I'm not here to discount them. Ultimately, I'm way less concerned about him light than I would be about a dinosaur style big like Drummond. When Drummond types don't play hard enough they are literally unplayable (on a team trying to win games). Wood might come with risk, but at least the upside is a player who can play like a MODERN center - run the floor, rim run off of screens, SHOOT from the outside, SWITCH on defense...and he even has a high post face up game. He can put the ball on the floor in short spurts and create shots for himself. In that last way, I think he might be better than KP, even (though this is on a very limited sample size).
If we knew the Mavs' thinking, I'd trust it. They've bought lots of cred from me recently.
(11-20-2020, 09:47 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2020, 09:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, my read of the tea leaves is Wood in a S&T deal for Wright.
Agree this seems reasonable. But Wood is not a strong defender and he's certainly not a beefy enforcer. I've read Wood has been trying to maintain weight and Casey even said he needs to get stronger. His ideal playing weight is 240. I believe he played around 230 last year. I've heard he's down to 220 now. That doesn't speak to his maturity or work ethic during the offseason -- both of which have been major question marks for Wood over his career.
The upside on Wood is there but how comfortable are you committing $60-70M to a player who looks a who lot like the next Whiteside? ... especially when Carlisle has had great success finding rim rolling bigs off the scrap heap. For example, a guy like WCS might give you 80% of Wood, at 20% of the price.
I'm also concerned about playmaking. As much as I like the Richardson deal, one could argue his was overexposed in Philly. Would the Mavs prefer a legit no 2 initiator (e.g. Kemba Walker) to ease the burden on Doncic?
I think we will see in time that Richardson is a legit no 2 initiator. The guys at the Ringer think he's the perfect blend of ability to initiate without a NEED to initiate (like would be the case with someone like Kemba).
There is risk with all of these guys. Dallas had Wood on a very successful summer league team in Orlando, so they know him. They also know his coach relatively well (Casey coached Wright in Toronto and Wood in Detroit). If Detroit is resigned to lose Wood (and all of their actions indicate they are), then Casey would be happy to share his thoughts with Carlisle. Bottom line, I'm happy to trust Donnie if this is what happens.
Help me out. What time does FA actually start today?
BTW. Christian Wood would be a killer with Luka running the point. The best passer he has played with is D Rose. Imagine that PnR with KP and JR providing floor spacing.
(11-20-2020, 09:17 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Anyway, my read of the tea leaves is Wood in a S&T deal for Wright.
Would make my day.
I wonder if Wright and something would still get Lou Williams...(Terry). Rumored trades had Wright and a first prior to the draft.
Donnie clearly (in my mind) was pointing towards an offensive upgrade.
(11-20-2020, 09:39 AM)Drew Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah the idea that THJ is overpaid is a bit of a overstatement.
Especially when guys similar to him will be grtting comparative or even higher salaries.
I wish he was more like 15 mil myself. But I don’t think the Mavs are hurting by paying him the going rate either
His contract is in the same range as Hield and other players of that type. He's paid appropriately
for the season he had last year. Those of us who see last year as a player and team settling on the perfect role for a good player who works hard believe he'll be that effective again. Some people (the pessimistic types) believe he just randomly shot 40% on a super high volume by having a lucky season (I guess). I think his defense is not all-world, but I think it's overblown here often as a huge issue the team must try to solve.
40% on 500+ 3pt attempts. Almost 8 attempts per game! This is ELITE. There were like 3-4 other guys who can offer this in the league last season. I think A) he would have much more trade value than people think but B) the Mavs very likely think they NEED him to be successful.
I don't agree with Dan that an extension is necessarily on the table (right now), because I think they still want to keep the cap space option available next summer, and by aiming for that, there's an ADDITIONAL option of using his expiring contract (or Richardson's, or both) at the TDL. But, I do think Richardson and THJ both getting re-signed or extended next summer is an option that could potentially be in the top 5 most likely outcomes of all this.
(11-20-2020, 08:33 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2020, 11:12 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Would you do THJ+? for Aldridge?
I guess we're in the minority. If the Spurs wanted to gift me Aldridge for the expiring of THJ+Brunson, then I'd personally send a gift to Pop. Aldridge was still an effective big last year. He's going to be 35, but he still managed to average almost 20ppg as a solid 2nd option. He'd be asked to either come off the bench and lead the offensive unit then or play a 3rd option (sometimes 4th), in limited minutes starting next to KP. Are you telling me that isn't the perfect role for Aldridge? He's also fantastic KP insurance.
if we trade Wright+Jackson+Future pick for Bogdon, then flip and nab a solid vet, the Mavs field a loaded roster.
Luka/Terry/JJ
Bogdon/Green/Lee
JRich/
DFS/Aldridge/Bey
KP/Maxi/Powell/Boban
That's such a fantastic mix of defense, shooting, size, playmaking, and small ball.
LMA can't play the 4 here. And an Aldridge lead second unit would score at a slower rate than whatever second unit we throw out without him. He could only play next to KP situationally, which would amount to a very small amount of minutes. He'd have to be KP's backup, and learn to play our game (not lead the unit). Just seems like square peg into a round hole. Can't imagine he'd be happy with all that. Does he want to become primarily a pnr center at 35 yrs old? Do we want to Brunson to bring the ball up and throw it to LMA and let him go to work? Seems like an impossible fit.
