MavsBoard

(11-13-2020, 03:34 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs get Millsap for the MLE.  Trade Maxi + Seth + #18 to Bulls for LaVine.  I believe Bulls current GM was Sam Hinkie's right hand man during The Process, tries to rebuild the franchise around more 3 point shooting and defense.

We would certainly score a lot of points lol. I think the part I don't hate is that if LaVine doesn't work out he is easy enough to trade again for something else.

I don't love having a backcourt of guys who don't play defense but you could argue THJ already doesn't provide a lot of that anyway. I actually think he looked better on defense than his reputation would indicate. At any rate if we had LaVine I would really like THJ out the door and try to find a defensive stud to replace him.

DFS is fine as a defensive player but overrated. We need a stud defensive player in the starting lineup regardless.

(11-13-2020, 03:34 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs get Millsap for the MLE.  Trade Maxi + Seth + #18 to Bulls for LaVine.

You're giving the Bulls too much credit.

Powell+Wright+Jackson+31 for Lavine 

So, to me, the main issue with a Doncic/LaVine backcourt would be their fit with a Porzingis-led front court. 

If you have the kind of big who's switchable (actually switchable, and not just somewhat) like Bam, Giannis, prime Draymond, etc, then guys like Doncic and LaVine are fine - better, even, because they both have size, and can arguably be more effective "defending up" after they switch onto a big. I have seen them both do this effectively with my own eyes. 

But, with bigs like Porzingis or Gobert, whose strength on that end is staying near the paint, if possible, I'd think you'd prefer to have the type of guard who can relentlessly fight over, under or through screens effectively enough so that you didn't have to switch them. Holliday, Franky Smokes, Thybulle, etc. 

Just my opinion. I would absolutely go all in on LaVine and figure it out later.

(11-13-2020, 03:49 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2020, 03:34 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs get Millsap for the MLE.  Trade Maxi + Seth + #18 to Bulls for LaVine.

You're giving the Bulls too much credit.

Powell+Wright+Jackson+31 for Lavine 

Executive of the Year if he pulled that trade off.

(11-13-2020, 03:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Franky Smokes

(11-13-2020, 03:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So, to me, the main issue with a Doncic/LaVine backcourt would be their fit with a Porzingis-led front court. 

If you have the kind of big who's switchable (actually switchable, and not just somewhat) like Bam, Giannis, prime Draymond, etc, then guys like Doncic and LaVine are fine - better, even, because they both have size, and can arguably be more effective "defending up" after they switch onto a big. I have seen them both do this effectively with my own eyes. 

But, with bigs like Porzingis or Gobert, whose strength on that end is staying near the paint, if possible, I'd think you'd prefer to have the type of guard who can relentlessly fight over, under or through screens effectively enough so that you didn't have to switch them. Holliday, Franky Smokes, Thybulle, etc. 

Just my opinion. I would absolutely go all in on LaVine and figure it out later.

I think the scoring would be insane. So if you did move off of Maxi, Seth's contract and presumably Wright's as well you could assemble quite a lovely team that's still powder friendly.

In 2021 you'd have a core of Luka, LaVine, KP which is a good pitch for Giannis (or another FA for that matter). Further if the LaVine experiment doesn't work he is easy enough to trade for a better fitting piece. His contract is very reasonable considering the production you get so it's not a situation like maybe a Hield type player where you could get "stuck" with a player.

If you got Luka, KP and LaVine you can get away with an on ball defensive oriented player who is a complete zero on offense like a Franky Smokes or Lonzo Ball. Especially if you got someone like Millsap who is still an efficient and crafty offensive player who can't be ignored at the 4

(11-13-2020, 04:12 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]If you got Luka, KP and LaVine you can get away with an on ball defensive oriented player who is a complete zero on offense like a Franky Smokes or Lonzo Ball.  Especially if you got someone like Millsap who is still an efficient and crafty offensive player who can't be ignored at the 4

You might be right about that, but I don't think that would be the Mavs' plan. They seem to value spacing as much as or more than any other team in the league. I think that's WHY Luka and LaVine would both be so lethal here. That's why they're one of the teams who values guys like Porzingis so highly. It's why they invested in Kleber. 

I think the likely outcome of a LaVine trade is that the defense would be WAY worse, at least temporarily, while they worked the rest of the roster around those three guys, and I'm not convinced that nucleus could EVER grow into a great defensive team. Never say never, though. 

Again, don't get me wrong - if that move is possible I MAKE IT and worry about fixing the mess later. To up the talent quotient that significantly in a way that fits like a glove (on one end of the court) and is surprisingly cap effective for further short-medium-term roster building would be a huge score, imo.

I mean its not like THJ was a defensive stalwart in his time here. In fact he was pretty freaking bad just by watching him. I cannot imagine Lavine to be any worse than THJ. And what Lavine lacks in the defensive department, he blows out the water on offense. He's 10x the offensive player THJ is, with the same ability to get absolutely scorching hot.

(11-13-2020, 04:21 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I mean its not like THJ was a defensive stalwart in his time here. In fact he was pretty freaking bad just by watching him. I cannot imagine Lavine to be any worse than THJ. And what Lavine lacks in the defensive department, he blows out the water on offense. He's 10x the offensive player THJ is, with the same ability to get absolutely scorching hot.

Right, but we're not talking about a long term investment in THJ. We talk favorably about him because we view him as a stepping stone to cap space, and because he actually outperformed expectations significantly. 

LaVine would be the OUTCOME of that plan. You'd essentially be jumping the gun on the 2021 thing and blowing your wad early. I know the cap mathers will swoop in and say it's still technically possible to carve out a max slot, and that's awesome, but I don't think the Mavs do it without being able to live with him as the guy they've been looking for. 

So, to me, it's a big decision, and not just a simple matter of "which one of these two guys would I rather have this year?"

(11-13-2020, 04:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2020, 04:21 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I mean its not like THJ was a defensive stalwart in his time here. In fact he was pretty freaking bad just by watching him. I cannot imagine Lavine to be any worse than THJ. And what Lavine lacks in the defensive department, he blows out the water on offense. He's 10x the offensive player THJ is, with the same ability to get absolutely scorching hot.

Right, but we're not talking about a long term investment in THJ. We talk favorably about him because we view him as a stepping stone to cap space, and because he actually outperformed expectations significantly. 

LaVine would be the OUTCOME of that plan. You'd essentially be jumping the gun on the 2021 thing and blowing your wad early. I know the cap mathers will swoop in and say it's still technically possible to carve out a max slot, and that's awesome, but I don't think the Mavs do it without being able to live with him as the guy they've been looking for. 

So, to me, it's a big decision, and not just a simple matter of "which one of these two guys would I rather have this year?"

I don't think you'd blow your wad because you would be sending out salary in the deal to offset money coming in. Any type of LaVine trade would need to be powder-friendly.

Wouldn't LaVine's $19.5 million on an expiring in 21-22 be a nice SnT piece for Giannis if you still want to play for that lottery ticket?

Millsap jersey won't ship until 11/24 and is listed as a pre-order item.

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Yeah, I nearly bought one.

(11-13-2020, 04:32 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Wouldn't LaVine's $19 million on an expiring be a nice SnT piece for Giannis if you still want to play for that lottery ticket?

Very possibly, actually, and that's a good point.

But, if you're the Mavs and you're already thinking that way before you make the trade, I honestly doubt you do it. I think there's a case to be made that the high end of your talent is in place with LaVine, and I'd evaluate the deal from that angle (as if you're keeping him forever), especially given what you'd (actually) have to give up to get him. If you don't think the resulting situation is one you can build a contender around, I don't think you do it.

If you think you might be able to figure out a way to throw your hat in for Giannis later, great! But, if that's still your overall plan there are way easier, cheaper stepping stones to choose, I'd think.

The other thing ab LaVine that I like is that with injuries you are hedging your bets that 2 out of your best 3 scorers are going to be available any given night (of course there is no guarantee). I am not sure what you'd have to give up to give him but I think I like him even better than I liked the idea of Kemba last year.

(11-13-2020, 04:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]The other thing ab LaVine that I like is that with injuries you are hedging your bets that 2 out of your best 3 scorers are going to be available any given night (of course there is no guarantee). I am not sure what you'd have to give up to give him but I think I like him even better than I liked the idea of Kemba last year.

Yeah, health and age are both positives with this one, and that's always awesome. 

I might catch some hate for this, but I can imagine a world in which Porzingis ends up being the guy who gets moved down the road, not LaVine. 

But honestly, I think if we actually knew the price, a lot of people in favor of this trade would change their tunes pretty quickly. I would probably still be willing.

(11-13-2020, 04:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I know the cap mathers will swoop in and say it's still technically possible to carve out a max slot, and that's awesome, but I don't think the Mavs do it without being able to live with him as the guy they've been looking for. 

I mean any Lavine trade means we need to be shipping out some of our own players. Luka/KP are off the table. So who's left? We can't trade THJ unless he opts in. Which leaves Powell/Maxi/Seth/Jackson/Wright/Brunson.  

All of those guys eat into our 21' cap space anyways. Which means any Lavine trade is just a consolidation of our contracts that already eat into that space. And I think Lavine is more than worth it when you look at the guys we'd be consolidating.

As it stands, the Mavs don't have a max spot anyways if 21' free agency began next week. We still need to make a trade regardless if we consolidated for Lavine or if we didn't. In one hypothetical scenario, lets say the Mavs sign Milsap to a 2 year MLE deal, and trade Lavine+OPJ for Powell+Wright+THJ+Brunson+and a pick. This would leave the Mavs about 20 mil off of a max deal the Giannis summer. Lavine's contract is 19.5 mil. Milsap would be a 10.5 mil expiring. The Mavs could easily trade Maxi or Seth and 8.5 mil a piece. 

See how easy it becomes to carve out a max space? AND in the process the Mavs net a high flying young bucket getter that could easily fill the best 3rd option on a championship team.

Ya, my tune changing on LaVine is because I believe they would HAVE to get defensive aces to fill in the roster at that point. Otherwise, forget contention honestly.

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(11-13-2020, 04:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-13-2020, 04:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I know the cap mathers will swoop in and say it's still technically possible to carve out a max slot, and that's awesome, but I don't think the Mavs do it without being able to live with him as the guy they've been looking for. 

I mean any Lavine trade means we need to be shipping out some of our own players. Luka/KP are off the table. So who's left? We can't trade THJ unless he opts in. Which leaves Powell/Maxi/Seth/Jackson/Wright/Brunson.  

All of those guys eat into our 21' cap space anyways. Which means any Lavine trade is just a consolidation of our contracts that already eat into that space. And I think Lavine is more than worth it when you look at the guys we'd be consolidating.

As it stands, the Mavs don't have a max spot anyways if 21' free agency began next week. We still need to make a trade regardless if we consolidated for Lavine or if we didn't. In one hypothetical scenario, lets say the Mavs sign Milsap to a 2 year MLE deal, and trade Lavine+OPJ for Powell+Wright+THJ+Brunson+and a pick. This would leave the Mavs about 20 mil off of a max deal the Giannis summer. Lavine's contract is 19.5 mil. Milsap would be a 10.5 mil expiring. The Mavs could easily trade Maxi or Seth and 8.5 mil a piece. 

See how easy it becomes to carve out a max space? AND in the process the Mavs net a high flying young bucket getter that could easily fill the best 3rd option on a championship team.

Man I’d LOVE to get LaVine and OPJ.

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Honestly, Chi has so many pieces that were so horribly used (and injured) I really like most trades with them. I just think they are such a great trade partner for us right now.

(11-13-2020, 04:53 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs could easily trade Maxi or Seth and 8.5 mil a piece. 

So this is what I'm talking about above. I have a hard time believing either one of those players would be here after a real life LaVine to the Mavericks trade. I haven't done the cap math, but I can tell you this:

There's no version of the deal (that Chicago agrees to) that includes Powell. 

There's no version that doesn't include BOTH #18 and #31, along with at least two and up to ALL of  DFS, Kleber, Curry and Brunson. And, have we considered that doing this might require salary coming back other than LaVine? I realize that some concessions would have to be made to make the trade legal, but I think the resulting team is full of salary that would be less easy to move than we might think. 

I really, really think we've got to view this from the perspective of "would I be happy if this was THE move?" I would be, but there are risks.

Having Luka, Lavine, KP + max 2021 cap space is pretty intriguing. Getting a defensive stud to shore up the starting unit is not impossible at all.