(11-22-2020, 08:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Some of you really need to watch the playoffs this year. There's a lot of basketball knowledge in this community, but McGee was a non-factor in the playoffs from start to finish, not even seeing the court really in the last two rounds. Howard was actually surprisingly effective against Jokic, but imo this was largely due to Mike Malone's lack of understanding of how to exploit that matchup. He played right into LA's hands. Howard, like McGee, was a non-factor in the finals.
AD at center is what won LAL that championship. They clearly don't want to play that way all season, and that's fine. The options they have now (Gasol and Harrell) bring much, much, MUCH more to the table than McGee/Howard did. Howard is so dumb he doesn't even know when he's being offered a contract. His goal for this free agency was to get a deal for guaranteed money, and there were so few teams willing to offer such a contract that he was forced to take a 1-year deal for his minimum on the first day of free agency. This is not a player you worry about losing.
Wesley Matthews averaged 6 points a game in the series against the Heat for the Bucks
Marc Gasol lost most of his minutes down the stretch to Ibaka. Marc Gasol aeraged 6 points a game and had a game where he did not score in the series against Boston.
Yes the Lakers did good by signing Schroeder but I am not so sure if he is an upgrade over "Playoff Rondo". That playoff point guard experience you get with Rondo is going to be missed.
I guess it will remain to be seen but I do not think they got better. I think their perimeter defense got worse and I think their shooting got worse.
(11-22-2020, 08:21 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]TLDR: I remain skeptical that Vogel can coach a team to a championship that relies on their offense to win games which I think LAL will now. But never bet against Lebron.
Exactly I think they got extremely worse defensively specifically Perimeter defense and Front Court Defense.
(11-22-2020, 08:19 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Harrell is such a massive downgrade for who they are. They won by defense. Harrell was an absolute liability against everyone in the playoffs.
Downgrade from what? He's a guy who won't be on the floor during the last 5 minutes of playoff games, replacing other guys who will ALSO not be on the floor during the last 5 minutes of playoff games...and those guys weren't contributing much (least of all DEFENSE) during the first 43 minutes of those games, either.
Acting like McGee is a loss for LA would be like getting pissed if the Mavs weren't able to bring WCS back, only an OLD version. He's a body they had to live with and throw minutes at because they couldn't free up money right away for a better player. You guys can argue with me if you want, but I've followed that team, I know what I'm talking about. At least with WCS there's a CHANCE he figures some things out and turns a corner. It's not likely, but it's possible. That ship sailed for McGee years ago.
Howard was a little better, but not at all anything worth getting into a twist about.
Just look at the market for Howard vs. the market for Gasol. It's obvious. You think Philly didn't try Gasol first? They took what they could get, just like the Lakers did with Howard last year.
(11-22-2020, 08:24 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]Yes the Lakers did good by signing Schroeder but I am not so sure if he is an upgrade over "Playoff Rondo". That playoff point guard experience you get with Rondo is going to be missed.
I guess it will remain to be seen but I do not think they got better. I think their perimeter defense got worse and I think their shooting got worse.
The shooting argument is a valid one, imo. They probably do have less shooting.
And yes, Rondo KILLED IT for them in the playoffs. I was in disbelief, but there he was, out of nowhere, playing his balls off. Are you prepared to guarantee he does that again? I'm not. The narrative about him here that he "has been fine since getting away from Carlisle" is not accurate, imo. It has been a mixed bag for him since leaving, and I'm telling you, for two years, up until these past playoffs, he has spared everyone in LA to death. Public enemy #1.
(11-22-2020, 08:21 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 08:19 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Harrell was an absolute liability against everyone in the playoffs.
Harrell in the playoffs was not the same as 6th man of the year before the bubble Harrell. How many times do we have to point it out. The difference was just obvious, he was a shell of himself and he had objective reasons for that.
Maybe offensively... But defensively he's what he always has been. We finally got to see him in the playoffs on a good team with a big role and he was completely exposed.
The Mavs with all there great rim attackers (Sarcasm) were able to just attack the basket all series long.
(11-22-2020, 08:32 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe offensively... But defensively he's what he always has been. We finally got to see him in the playoffs on a good team with a big role and he was completely exposed.
The Mavs with all there great rim attackers (Sarcasm) were able to just attack the basket all series long.
I'm not here to ride or die with Harrell. I'm saying that the narrative that McGee or Howard gave them ANYTHING of crucial, can't-live-without value last year is born mostly of prior name recognition and a lack of experience watching them play. I'm saying that there were likely 20 available players who would've been significant improvements over them.
(11-22-2020, 08:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 08:19 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Harrell is such a massive downgrade for who they are. They won by defense. Harrell was an absolute liability against everyone in the playoffs.
Downgrade from what? He's a guy who won't be on the floor during the last 5 minutes of playoff games, replacing other guys who will ALSO not be on the floor during the last 5 minutes of playoff games...and those guys weren't contributing much (least of all DEFENSE) during the first 43 minutes of those games, either.
Acting like McGee is a loss for LA would be like getting pissed if the Mavs weren't able to bring WCS back, only an OLD version. He's a body they had to live with and throw minutes at because they couldn't free up money right away for a better player. You guys can argue with me if you want, but I've followed that team, I know what I'm talking about. At least with WCS there's a CHANCE he figures some things out and turns a corner. It's not likely, but it's possible. That ship sailed for McGee years ago.
Howard was a little better, but not at all anything worth getting into a twist about.
Just look at the market for Howard vs. the market for Gasol. It's obvious. You think Philly didn't try Gasol first? They took what they could get, just like the Lakers did with Howard last year.
Howard. For all of his issues he's still a defender and rim protector. Harrell is a sieve. They'll probably win more games during the regular season. But I strongly feel like they are going to get exposed and attacked in the playoffs.
Mcgee is trash. They won't miss him. Although I'm not convinced Gasol will have much left.
This really comes down for me about them casting off most of their defenders on the perimeter and adding Harrell.
I could be wrong tho about him. AD and Lebron may cover up the warts. I remain skeptical tho.
The Lakers will go as Lebron goes
I swear he was moving better this past season than he was a few years ago. Absolutely crazy.
If he's the same guy this coming season I think they have to be the favs again.
(11-22-2020, 08:40 PM)Jym Wrote: [ -> ]The Lakers will go as Lebron goes
I swear he was moving better this past season than he was a few years ago. Absolutely crazy.
If he's the same guy this coming season I think they have to be the favs again.
Father time has a way of sneaking up on high mileage players. Got to make LeBeijing earn it
(11-22-2020, 08:39 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard. For all of his issues he's still a defender and rim protector. Harrell is a sieve. They'll probably win more games during the regular season. But I strongly feel like they are going to get exposed and attacked in the playoffs.
Understood, but I just don't see how you can say they will miss a player in the playoffs who was only a factor in ONE of the playoff series from last year. And I'd argue that if Denver had a good coach, he wouldn't have been a factor in THAT one.
just waiting for mavsluvr's "A Few Thoughts on Mavs Draft and Free Agency"..
(11-22-2020, 07:49 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]How did I miss that the Bucks originally offered Connaughton a contract that does not exist under NBA rules. I don´t think the Mavs, Heat or Raptors could have asked for more. Not many ATGs would still sign a max extension after their front office produced such a mess while on the clock.
Interesting. I missed that, too. It definitely leads me to believe they were the ones responsible for sabotaging their own Bogi deal as well.
Giannis may indeed stay, but the Bucks are doing everything they can to make him consider his options.
https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/11/21/buc...act-issue/
Regarding all this Lakers talk:
In the immortal words of Nick Van Exel -- F 'em.
Let's get the season started and let the Lakers hope they miss playoff Luka before the WCF.
I think Mavs have a chance to crack the top 4 and/or win a first round series. Alt might depend on the health of KP or general health of the Mavs (like most teams). Warriors lost Klay and Houston is a bit of a mess. Should be interesting. I think the Mavs should hit the ground running considering they have a lot of continuity from last year. I don't think all rides on J Rich. I think similar to Curry the odds are most nights one of those two will score points. The biggest factor of course is Luka and his health. He got banged up last year, hopefully his new enforcers try to protect him when he gets knocked on his ass. I also think the refs are finally going to give him the star treatment he deserves. If Luka is healthy for the most part then this is a playoff team.
Wow, so the nuggets never got Blake Griffin? No way they messed up that bad. I thought the Grant and Plumlee salaries matched perfect
(11-22-2020, 07:53 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2020, 02:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-21-2020, 02:28 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]You guys are all overblowing their culture issue.
If some dumb franchise had offered THJ 100/4, he´d have been like, nah I love this Mavs culture so much, I´ll opt into my final year.
Hayward was looking for that last huge payday (before his injury+age-related decline) and his calculated gamble paid off.
Is Ainge a ruthless mofo? Absolutely, but come on now.
Right there with you in terms of signing/keeping players. Money rules.
But in terms of the team reaching its potential? In terms of winning? It still might be overblown, but I think it matters.
@"cow"'s gif game has definitely gone up a notch over the past week.
(11-22-2020, 07:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 07:22 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Expecting a 4-5 seed
Taking from here.
Top of West. LAC, LAL and Denver are powerhouses. First two improved, Denver core is young so a certain level of improvement can be expected. However, they were unable to improve at a SG position (Harris), where they had the biggest hole. Portland improved greatly on the paper. They look terrific. These four will be difficult to beat.
Solid playoff teams. I would put Utah, GSW and Dallas here.
Playoff hopefulls. Houston, Memphis and Phoenix in this tier. Houston is just a little worse, but a ticking bomb. Tucker, Westbrook, Harden are reportedly unhappy. Phoenix made that huge CP3 deal, but followed by meh draft. They covered some holes in FA. I don't think they improved enough to be a tier higher. Can Memphis repeat the very successful season?
Think they are a playoff team but not likely. San Antonio, New Orleans, Minnesota. San Antonio drafted well and mostly kept the group, so they will remain a fringe playoff team. They might start a firesale at TDL if they feel they don't make it. New Orleans built somehow strange team with pieces that don't really fit the idea of modern basketball, but defense will be better than last year. Minnesota put together a very straneg roster. Most of main guys don't play defense, but have big offensive talent. Rubio is very strange decision for this group. They don't have wings and overpaid Beasley.
Rebuilding: Sacramento. Unless they match Bogi offer from Atlanta, they will be worse. But seems like FO has given new management time to build a team that makes sense.
G-league: OKC. They might be historically bad. Horford and SGA (I expect Hill gone) are the only serious players on the roster, the rest is a group of guys that barely played up to now. They might be fighting hard, but will just lack quality for something more.
The Lakers lost Bradley, Green, and Rondo arguably 3 of their top 5 perimeter players. The McGee/Howard combination was pretty salty.
I do not think they got better. Wesley Matthews is trash on defense. KL is going to abuse him
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/3oz8xLd9DJq2l2VFtu/giphy.gif)
I get that we're supposed to hate the Lakers but 90% of this board thought they had no shot last year because of their lack of depth. Now they get legit depth and people think they got worse.
(11-22-2020, 08:04 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see the fit with Harrell and AD together.
There isn't.
Schroeder and Harrell allow them to not run Lebron and AD into the ground in a season where there are a lot of games packed into fewer days.
(11-22-2020, 09:21 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Wow, so the nuggets never got Blake Griffin? No way they messed up that bad. I thought the Grant and Plumlee salaries matched perfect
why the heck would they want Blake Griffin? This aint a video game. Jamychal Green isnt that big a downgrade from Jerami Grant. Grant's on/off numbers were absolutely terrible last year. Denver was a lot better when he was on the bench.
They had a deep front court and lost 2/5. Now it’s brittle(porter) and old(millsap). Not complaining just surprised
They had Grant and Milsap at the 4.
Now they have Milsap and Green + MPJ and Bol Bol will get more minutes there.
Not ideal but I dont think it's a big loss.
They need Gary Harris to be better and/or Will Barton to stay healthy.
edit: I forgot about Plumlee. I dont even know if he's any good TBH.
(11-22-2020, 09:33 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]They had Grant and Milsap at the 4.
Now they have Milsap and Green + MPJ and Bol Bol will get more minutes there.
Not ideal but I dont think it's a big loss.
They need Gary Harris to be better and/or Will Barton to stay healthy.
I totally forgot they still had Will The Thrill, known Mavs Killer Barton
Actually the guy I'm more worried about if I'm the Nuggets is Monte Morris. He is the BEST backup PG in the NBA imo. (He actually is what Mavs fans pretend Brunson is) He is on the last year of his deal I think and is gonna want to get paid. Nuggets can't afford him. They signed that guy Campazzo to play backup point.
I wonder if they ride it out with Morris and let him walk for nothing or try and trade him before then.
(11-22-2020, 08:40 PM)Jym Wrote: [ -> ]The Lakers will go as Lebron goes
I swear he was moving better this past season than he was a few years ago. Absolutely crazy.
If he's the same guy this coming season I think they have to be the favs again.
Oh yeah. Until you take the champ down they are almost always the faves IMO. And the fact that nobody has made a clear jump up... Even more so.
I'm not even saying they won't repeat. But I do think they are more vulnerable then they were at the beginning of FA. Curious to see the trades before the trade deadline because I do think it's wide open between any one of like half a dozen teams or so
(11-22-2020, 08:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 08:39 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Howard. For all of his issues he's still a defender and rim protector. Harrell is a sieve. They'll probably win more games during the regular season. But I strongly feel like they are going to get exposed and attacked in the playoffs.
Understood, but I just don't see how you can say they will miss a player in the playoffs who was only a factor in ONE of the playoff series from last year. And I'd argue that if Denver had a good coach, he wouldn't have been a factor in THAT one.
Stuff like that can really matter in series tho is all I'm saying.
And its really not about Howard but the stuff he did and the stuff the replacements don't do.