Yeah, that’s worth noting, actually.
The health/availability concerns about Hayward are valid. But, there’s also some “white guy” stereotyping going on with some people here, I think. Hayward is not a useless defender. He’s a legitimate two-way player, imo. I honestly believe his impact (if healthy and playing well) is being drastically under imagined by some. He would be a good ass get for our Mavs, tbh. The best free agent signing I can remember, tbh. Way bigger score than Barnes or Parsons.
(11-08-2020, 02:43 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward is not a useless defender. He’s a legitimate two-way player, imo.
Hayward from my seat is at least a neutral defender, so he isn't going to make things worse on D at worst probably.
(11-08-2020, 08:09 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 02:43 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward is not a useless defender. He’s a legitimate two-way player, imo.
Hayward from my seat is at least a neutral defender, so he isn't going to make things worse on D at worst probably.
Only place that makes sense for Hayward is an ambitious team with capspace like Atlanta. Who in the world will pay him so much money during a pandemic, that he´d opt out of $34M guaranteed. Most guys will stick with their big pre-COVID contracts, then sign short term deals and hope that once a vaccine is developed a cap rise and positive projections will get them bigger contracts again. To find a team that makes it worthwhile to opt out of $34M, you are talking at least 100/4 and it will probably be even more.
(11-08-2020, 08:19 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 08:09 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 02:43 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward is not a useless defender. He’s a legitimate two-way player, imo.
Hayward from my seat is at least a neutral defender, so he isn't going to make things worse on D at worst probably.
Only place that makes sense for Hayward is an ambitious team with capspace like Atlanta. Who in the world will pay him so much money during a pandemic, that he´d opt out of $34M guaranteed. Most guys will stick with their big pre-COVID contracts, then sign short term deals and hope that once a vaccine is developed a cap rise and positive projections will get them bigger contracts again. To find a team that makes it worthwhile to opt out of $34M, you are talking at least 100/4 and it will probably be even more.
A Trade&Extend could be his way to go.
The 34 Mio stay and then 2 years at about 20Mio.
(11-08-2020, 08:09 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 02:43 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Hayward is not a useless defender. He’s a legitimate two-way player, imo.
Hayward from my seat is at least a neutral defender, so he isn't going to make things worse on D at worst probably.
I don't disagree. For me and Hayward I want to know the price. I think media ppl don't believe his price is all that high.
No on any extension stuff with Gordon. Mavs still need to keep their powder dry until Giannis signs his supermax or signs elsewhere. Hayward is not worth missing that opportunity.
(11-08-2020, 08:56 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]A Trade&Extend could be his way to go.
The 34 Mio stay and then 2 years at about 20Mio.
I'd love to have Gordon at that price, but I don't believe it's legal. The max raise in a trade & extend is 5%, and that should also be the max decrease from year to year.
To me a Hayward for Gobert trade or Hayward for Turner trade makes some sense.
(11-08-2020, 09:34 AM)loki Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 08:56 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]A Trade&Extend could be his way to go.
The 34 Mio stay and then 2 years at about 20Mio.
I'd love to have Gordon at that price, but I don't believe it's legal. The max raise in a trade & extend is 5%, and that should also be the max decrease from year to year.
Mapka's numbers would have to be done once the new season starts. The advantage to Dallas would be a smaller number in 21 than a simple 3 year S&T with a similar average salary of about $25mm. I believe this is legal. There are restrictions on raises once the extension kicks in. There is also a maximum number for the extension (not an issue for Hayward). But, the language in the FAQ is "can sign for any amount up to...". Usually if there is a restriction on reducing salary the CBA spells that out.
The Atlanta rumor indicates Boston wants Capella and the Hawks want to send Dedmon. I think that reinforces the idea that Maxi would be a priority for Boston in such a deal. I'm not sure this is my favorite idea. I like the idea of Gordon, but you are probably giving up THJ, Maxi and 2021 all at the same time. If you can tell me that we also move up in the draft and get Hali or Killi and then go all in to get a 4/3 or 3/4 defender with the MLE or by trade, then I'm good with it.
One other cap management note. I've advocated that WCS would probably opt-in because he would make an extra $400k (not insigificant), and have a $2.9mm cap hold. OTN who posts at LMF pointed out that if he opts out and resigns at the minimum with Dallas, he would have the same EB rights to go up to the league average salary, but his hold would be closer to $900k. That extra $2mm in cap space might help in 2021. It only matters if they are hanging onto cap room (which I hope they don't do).
(11-08-2020, 11:34 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]The Atlanta rumor indicates Boston wants Capella and the Hawks want to send Dedmon.
The Atlanta rumor (in its latest version) actually is, that Hayward opts out and signs as FA in their cap space. Then they have another trade with Indiana and the third team where Dedmon is involved. My guess is, this is Oladipo to Milwaukee trade with (probably) Bledsoe going to Atlanta. Of course all of these are rumors.
(11-08-2020, 09:44 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]To me a Hayward for Gobert trade or Hayward for Turner trade makes some sense.
So, maybe, IF HE OPTS IN. And, he might do that. But, TONS of people, not just this Atlanta guy, are reporting that Hayward WANTS to opt out and sign somewhere else.
We know you don't expect this, and it might not happen, but that's where the discussion is. Assume he opts out.
(11-08-2020, 12:16 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 11:34 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]The Atlanta rumor indicates Boston wants Capella and the Hawks want to send Dedmon.
The Atlanta rumor (in its latest version) actually is, that Hayward opts out and signs as FA in their cap space. Then they have another trade with Indiana and the third team where Dedmon is involved. My guess is, this is Oladipo to Milwaukee trade with (probably) Bledsoe going to Atlanta. Of course all of these are rumors.
Well Atlanta has most of the leverage. Likely comes down to whether Boston believes they can find a better player than Dedmon for the minimum, which is assuming they´d try to use the MLE to replace Hayward.
Makes sense for Hayward either way, cause he´ll be small fish in a big FA pond next year. This year he´s like Moby Dick.
(11-08-2020, 09:44 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]To me a Hayward for Gobert trade or Hayward for Turner trade makes some sense.
Right it makes sense for BOSTON. But what about Hayward? I assume he doesn't want to go back to UTA or even to IND.
This may be the exact reason he is threatening to opt out, he doesn't want to be traded somewhere he doesn't want to go. I get the feeling Hayward cares more about WHERE he is than what his next paycheck is (at least to a certain extent).
P.S. The more I have let @"KillerLeft"'s tin hat theory sink in, the more I think ATL is being used as leverage.
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/1luXveXtUttIY256pE/giphy.gif)
(11-08-2020, 01:58 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Makes sense for Hayward either way, cause he´ll be small fish in a big FA pond next year. This year he´s like Moby Dick.
To me, if he's healthy this year, he'd be a top 3 guy in next year's class, even, and probably a fall back name the Mavs have had circled for quite a while. This is why I have very little trouble believing they'd jeopardize 2021 space for a multi-year contract for him now. It's simply getting one of the guys on their list a year earlier.
For Hayward it makes sense to grab long term money if it is available this year. With his "slowly leaving the prime" age and injury history, it is not really wise to bet on yourself to potentially end up as Cousins. 100/4 is still a lot of money.
I am not really sure if such cheap tricks as "I will go to Atlanta if you don't SnT me where I want to go" really work. As a minimum Boston would want compensation of some kind for the help. Let's say this is Kleber, as they don't really need another pick. But you still have to get rid of additional salary, which (let's assume) Boston doesn't want without compensation.
Btw - how much salary would Dallas need to send out in a SnT for a 25 million player?
(11-08-2020, 02:29 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]For Hayward it makes sense to grab long term money if it is available this year. With his "slowly leaving the prime" age and injury history, it is not really wise to bet on yourself to potentially end up as Cousins. 100/4 is still a lot of money.
I am not really sure if such cheap tricks as "I will go to Atlanta if you don't SnT me where I want to go" really work. As a minimum Boston would want compensation of some kind for the help. Let's say this is Kleber, as they don't really need another pick. But you still have to get rid of additional salary, which (let's assume) Boston doesn't want.
Btw - how much salary would Dallas need to send out in a SnT for a 25 million player?
Yeah, it might be a long shot. And, he'd have to REALLY be ok with signing in Atlanta, which is the detail that Fish always downplayed. Just spit balling here in an effort to find a path to a world better than the one where Evan Fournier is the prize of the Mavs' off season. Sue me.
(11-08-2020, 12:16 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]The Atlanta rumor (in its latest version) actually is, that Hayward opts out and signs as FA in their cap space. Then they have another trade with Indiana and the third team where Dedmon is involved. My guess is, this is Oladipo to Milwaukee trade with (probably) Bledsoe going to Atlanta. Of course all of these are rumors.
Note that the Hawks guy has said clearly that the Hayward signing and mega 3-team deal involving Oladipo are mutually exclusive. He's getting Hawks fans worked up on multiple fronts.
BTW, as much as we're talking about the rumors from an anonymous guy on the Hawks board, I feel inclined to point out that he's also posted some blatantly insane stuff. Like this one from September, when he claimed Minnesota, Philly, and Houston were swapping all of their best players and OKC was trading Paul back to Houston for Westbrook:
https://www.hawksquawk.net/topic/431653-...nt-1035323
Of course, he later walked that back and said Houston backed out. Funny how the insiders have so many very specific details but never call the deals that actually happen.
It's fun to read rumors. This guy seems pretty educated on team needs, and he very well may have a few decent connections. But I also get a DFWsportsguy vibe when it comes to using fan excitement against them to peddle lies for attention. Have fun, but don't take it too seriously.
(11-08-2020, 04:25 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]to peddle lies for attention. Have fun, but don't take it too seriously.
Exactly THIS.
Feels like pretty innocent attention whoring. I'm sure it feels really good to have dozens of people falling over his every word.
(11-08-2020, 04:25 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]It's fun to read rumors. This guy seems pretty educated on team needs, and he very well may have a few decent connections. But I also get a DFWsportsguy vibe when it comes to using fan excitement against them to peddle lies for attention. Have fun, but don't take it too seriously.
Of course, it shouldn't be taken seriously. For me it is just a source of new ideas. I mean, what kind of REAL insider (this means couple of top of the pyramid guys) would give such information to a friend to post it on a forum. Ok, there were some social media debacles in the NBA, so perhaps it is theoretically possible. Reality - it is a multibillion dollar business and guys are top of the notch proffesionals. Something like this doesn't just get you fired, it ends your career.