MavsBoard

Surely Miami can't have everyone, right?

(10-20-2020, 09:28 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Saw someone post that tweet from Gallo. He seems gone from OKC. 

I wonder if he might be one of those that signs a one year deal and enters free agency next year? 

I'm like 90% sure he's going to Miami. But if Miami decides to go in a different direction then I think it's a very tough market for him if he wants to go to a good team.

Gallo's performance in the bubble really scared me off from him. 15 ppg 40/32/90. Given all his injury issues it just seems like a ticking time bomb.

If he wants to take a 1yr MLE to come here I'd think that'd be a steal but I doubt he does. An interesting move could be a SnT with MIL. He seems like the kind of guy MIL would prioritize to get better.

Putting the recent headline of the Mavs willing to eat salary in return for a 3rd star, and listening to the Lowe Post. My wheels started turning.

Many here liked the idea of Paul Milsap as a stopgap 4. A guy who can guard bigger dudes, and is still agile enough to not get eaten alive in PnR. He's also a pretty good 3pt shooter, and has a varied offensive game. I like Paul Milsap. I don't like his age. But in my time ruminating over trades to get Milsap to Dallas, a lightbulb turned on.

Why not Blake Griffin? Seriously? Ok ok, yes his contract is pretty hefty. Yes he's probably more injury prone than KP. Yes, he might not be anything he once was. BUT! Here me out. Griffin last year arguably had his best year as a pro. He led a middling Pistons team that was bereft of talent to the playoffs. Before he went down near the end of that season, Griffin was a dark horse MVP candidate and had many thinking the Pistons could perhaps steal a series early. 
This year was a lost year for Griffin. His injuries piled up faster than the Pistons lost games, and it culminated in the Pistons sitting Blake to lose out. 

Griffin has reinvented himself. No longer is he this high-flying 4 that beats people by jumping over a car. No. Griffin last year averaged 36% from 3 on 7 attempts from the field. He dished out nearly 6 assists a game. He got to the free throw line 7.3 times a game. He was a legit all-NBA talent. He is basically an advanced version of Paul Milsap today. 

Here in Dallas, Griffin has the skill to be a secondary playmaker. In LAC, one of Griffin's go-to plays was a 4-5 PnR with Jordan that resulted in lobs all day. Griffin is also a versatile defender.  At 6'9, he's the perfect height to guard bigs, and he still has the quickness to keep up with wings. He has 2 years left on his deal with a player option in the summer of 2021. If he opted in, the Mavs could trade his expiring contract as an asset. If he opts out, the Mavs would have more than enough space to chase Giannis. 

I think Griffins value is super low. One where we could convince Detroit to take Powell off our hands, and maybe even dare I say swap picks? (Don't take that hyperbole too seriously). 

Tl;DR Griffin is available. He qualifies as a 3rd star. His contract isn't that long and theoretically shouldn't prevent us in the Giannis chase. He is a higher upside version of Paul Milsap and could conceivably be good enough to put the Mavs in contending status next year and should be cheap. Why not?

One thing about accumulating assets is that it can actually give you more flexibility than just having cap space. For instance, let's say the Mavs acquire Oladipo for next season, and then in the next offseason Giannis wants to come here. If we're only using cap space, Oladipo would obviously have to go in that scenario(or all of our role players), BUT if we have a number of assets and bird rights for desirable players(e.g. THJ), the Mavs would also have the option of doing a sign-and-trade and going over the cap while keeping Oladipo. Assets are always better than cap space as long as they're paid reasonable money.

(10-21-2020, 05:16 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]One thing about accumulating assets is that it can actually give you more flexibility than just having cap space. For instance, let's say the Mavs acquire Oladipo for next season, and then in the next offseason Giannis wants to come here. If we're only using cap space, Oladipo would obviously have to go in that scenario(or all of our role players), BUT if we have a number of assets and bird rights for desirable players(e.g. THJ), the Mavs would also have the option of doing a sign-and-trade and going over the cap while keeping Oladipo. Assets are always better than cap space as long as they're paid reasonable money.

The reasonable money is what makes them assets.

(10-21-2020, 03:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Why not?

Because there are huge risks which you mostly listed: injury, age, fit with the team. All of this gives serious possibility that trading for him will be a total bust. He basically kills our 2021 flexibility - we actually increase our 2021 money even if we trade Wright and Powell for him. Based on this, I say no thank you and run away, even if Detroit takes all our bad money and SnT Lee to make up the salary difference. The risks are not worth it, imho.

As from the Detroit part. They need to get something of value for him, because in the end, they have to pay someone to reach the minimum salary level. Switching him for low value (or dare I say negative value) contracts is not it. At least a couple of second rounders, since we don't really have any young players.

---

(10-21-2020, 05:16 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]One thing about accumulating assets is that it can actually give you more flexibility than just having cap space. For instance, let's say the Mavs acquire Oladipo for next season, and then in the next offseason Giannis wants to come here. If we're only using cap space, Oladipo would obviously have to go in that scenario(or all of our role players), BUT if we have a number of assets and bird rights for desirable players(e.g. THJ), the Mavs would also have the option of doing a sign-and-trade and going over the cap while keeping Oladipo. Assets are always better than cap space as long as they're paid reasonable money.

Of course. I guess vast majority of people here want Mavs to improve for 2020/21 in some way. Some want draft, some players, some prefer expiring players and some prefer players under longer term contracts. All of these can be assets.

(10-21-2020, 07:13 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Because there are huge risks which you mostly listed: injury, age, fit with the team

Injury for sure is a biggie. Griffin has always been plagued with injuries. Just a cost of being one of the most athletic players ever. I trust our medical staff to put him in the best position health-wise though.  But I disagree with you that Griffins fit and age are detriments. In fact I think both are advantages. Griffin is only 31. On the scale of father time, Griffin still has at least 4 years left of quality basketball barring injuries. Jrue Holiday is 30 and has been just as injury prone as Griffin, yet many wouldn't bat an eye for a trade involving him. His experience also helps bolster this young team that had trouble closing out games. 

Griffins fit I also believe would be like a glove. He has everything we want. He can hit 3's. He has some great playmaking. He can create his own offense. And he's versatile defensively (albiet he isn't the absolute best at that). 

(10-21-2020, 07:13 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]He basically kills our 2021 flexibility - we actually increase our 2021 money even if we trade Wright and Powell for him.

The BG Plan falls squarely in the "Cap Space Can Always Be Created" mindset. His contract is large. But it also expires in 2 years at the most. He could opt-out in 2021 for one last big contract at 32, an idea I believe has more credence than were giving credit. Should Griffin opt out and the Mavs get off Wright and Powell, we'd actually have created nearly 20 mil of space that previously wasn't there. And in the case Griffin doesn't opt out? Well again, cap can always be created. There are PLENTY of middling teams that would take an expiring Blake Griffin for pennies on the dollar, even if he's injured. At worst he sells seats. At best he can take a team like Orlando or Portland further in the playoffs on a 1 year deal. Either way, he's a tradeable asset and shouldn't be viewed as a blockade to the Giannis chase.

(10-21-2020, 12:38 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Surely Miami can't have everyone,  right?

They are linked to every deal lol. If they can get Dipo for cheap I think they do that otherwise they have their own plan powder where they would likely get Giannis and/or Dipo in 2021. I don't believe anything that shows them giving a big contact to a non-star this offseason.

Chasing the Bulls

I keep coming back to wanting to raid one of the better defensive teams in CHI this off-season.

I will take whoever can be gotten for cheap between...

• OPJ (Player option $28.4M in '21)
  
• Tomas ($10M in '21, $5M of $10M guaranteed in '22)
  
• Shaq Harrison (RFA, non-bird rights)
  
• Dunn (RFA, bird rights)
  

I think any of the four helps improve defense on the perimeter for the Mavs.

I am really intrigued by Harrison. Played 20 mins/g in '19 and 11 mins/g in '20. Shot 38% from three in limited sample size in '20, but had a HUGE impact on their D. He is 6'7" and 27.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagaGdhS2RQ


Here are some Dunn defensive highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMznAMjpV0E

(10-21-2020, 05:24 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2020, 05:16 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]One thing about accumulating assets is that it can actually give you more flexibility than just having cap space. For instance, let's say the Mavs acquire Oladipo for next season, and then in the next offseason Giannis wants to come here. If we're only using cap space, Oladipo would obviously have to go in that scenario(or all of our role players), BUT if we have a number of assets and bird rights for desirable players(e.g. THJ), the Mavs would also have the option of doing a sign-and-trade and going over the cap while keeping Oladipo. Assets are always better than cap space as long as they're paid reasonable money.

The reasonable money is what makes them assets.

I totally agree that having assets is better than not having assets, and I think the Mavs have done a sneaky good job at accumulating some good ones. Going strictly off of the value of a team friendly contract, I'd guess Kleber, DFS and Curry are all more valuable than we might realize. Wright, too, if a team thinks he can contribute, tbh. Any of them WILL be super easy to move if/when space is needed. That's true.

My whole thing is that I don't want to HAVE to move them, if I can possibly avoid doing so. Those same value contracts should help expedite process of building a team around Luka/Giannis, if the dream comes true. 

But back to the point at hand, I think there's ample evidence that the Mavs understand and agree that value assets are a good thing to have, even if they're chasing big dreams. So, I'm not going to assume they don't know what they're doing should they choose to clear space before people here would. Instead, I'll assume that they couldn't find any assets valuable enough to fit into their plans that way, and that it might be because no such options are available to them. Not because they're incompetent. 

Another Curry like signing, that you KNOW you can move? Sure! But, I have a feeling some of what people here might consider "valuable" would actually not be viewed that way by the team. It's a slippery slope from the truth of "valuable players on good contracts are easy to clear" to the lie "you can always move any contract when you need to."

---

Good article. The point is that we shouldn't be so attached to DFS, Kleber and Curry, which is probably true, but what I find interesting is the perspective gained on the deficiencies of some of our most talked about potential trade targets. Maybe we should be less worried about them.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2020/10/21...st-seasons

Interesting read. Different opinions on most things, no clear consensus. Once it was very onesided. 18 out of 20 think Giannis will stay in Milwaukee. Most convincing quote: "he is a two time MVP. People should come play with him, not him going to play with somebody".

 Donnie was mentioned in "which GM you trust the least" with one vote. Quote: he always says, "yeah, we are very interested in your guy." But looks like every agent has his "hated" GM, as only Morey got two votes while rest of the votes were spread accross. Half of them think Presti is the smartest GM.

https://theathletic.com/2127698/2020/10/...rade-talk/

---

Hey trade experts. Which salary counts for draft day trades? 2019/20 one or 2020/21 one?

(10-21-2020, 11:36 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] Donnie was mentioned in "which GM you trust the least" with one vote. Quote: he always says, "yeah, we are very interested in your guy."

Knicks vote identified.

Trying to be smart, so here is one idea for draft aficionados. It is pretty likely Philly will be paying some of those second rounders to someone to take Scotts 5 million (and gazillion of tax) off their back. We will not have cap space to take him, so why not trying to include him in a three team trade where we are able to take extra 5 million. 

It is difficult to find matching salaries, so I will just list a couple of examples that approximately work for you to get the idea. 

1. Dumping Wright

Chi: Wright
Phi: nothing
Dal: Felicio, Scott, #34 and #49 from Philly

2. Wright for Hart

NO: Wright+#18
Phi: nothing
Dal: Hart, Scott, #34 and #49

3. Forum favorite

Ind: Wright, Curry, Jackson, #18
Phi: nothing
Dal: Dipo, Scott, #34 and #49

4. Shake it up
Ind: Maxi, Curry, THJ, #18
Phi: nothing
Dal: Dipo, Turner, Scott, #34 and #49

I love you @"SleepingHero", but I want no part of Blake in our locker room. We've got a really good culture right now and I'm not rocking that boat.

(10-21-2020, 01:28 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Trying to be smart, so here is one idea for draft aficionados. It is pretty likely Philly will be paying some of those second rounders to someone to take Scotts 5 million (and gazillion of tax) off their back. We will not have cap space to take him, so why not trying to include him in a three team trade where we are able to take extra 5 million. 

It is difficult to find matching salaries, so I will just list a couple of examples that approximately work for you to get the idea. 

1. Dumping Wright

Chi: Wright
Phi: nothing
Dal: Felicio, Scott, #34 and #49 from Philly

2. Wright for Hart

NO: Wright+#18
Phi: nothing
Dal: Hart, Scott, #34 and #49

3. Forum favorite

Ind: Wright, Curry, Jackson, #18
Phi: nothing
Dal: Dipo, Scott, #34 and #49

4. Shake it up
Ind: Maxi, Curry, THJ, #18
Phi: nothing
Dal: Dipo, Turner, Scott, #34 and #49

1. Absolutely. Don´t see why the Bulls would do it in this set-up. You need to incentivise the cheap Bulls owner, so you probably have to throw money and the 2nd round picks his way. I´d still do it for Dallas. Anything reasonable to clean our roster of the bad contracts.

2. Would think about it, if we didn´t have to pay Hart next summer. Therefore #18 would be too rich for me.

3. Nah. I´m really turned off by any Oladipo trades RIGHT NOW. I maintain it makes sense to watch Oladipo until the trade deadline. It´s a contract year, so he´ll put everything into it. Outside of hiding injury pain, you´ll get an honest assessment of his post-injury form.

4. I don´t see a chance in hell Indiana does that, but I´d consider it a Turner trade. Therefore I´m not even bothered, if Oladipo leaves or is allowed to leave in this case.

(10-21-2020, 11:36 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Donnie was mentioned in "which GM you trust the least" with one vote. Quote: he always says, "yeah, we are very interested in your guy." But looks like every agent has his "hated" GM, as only Morey got two votes while rest of the votes were spread accross. Half of them think Presti is the smartest GM.

Donnie loves the boys in blue and all your guys too.  


When I was reading that, I was sure he would be in the trusted section but he is lumped in there with Ainge.

(10-21-2020, 02:08 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Don´t see why...

I said those were quick examples to illustrate the idea. So I hoped comments would be focused more on the idea itself, not those illustrative examples. I am not even sure everything is ok salary wise, I just went by a feeling, didn't do the math.

But since you started

1. As for Wright to Chicago trade. Chicago could use another PG and as meh as he was, Wright is by far the best player in that deal. That cheap owner bought out previous coach and paid for an expensive new one. It's not like Wright is putting them in tax. Felicio+cheap back up is still more expensive in 2020/21 than Wright.

2. Hart cap hold is manageble, so we could keep him after 2021. Who cares if we pay him after our FA moves, we won't have cap space for long long time. And we are getting back two second rounders.

3. I knew this one will be forum favorite

4. Just to show it gets easier with more salaries involved

---

(10-21-2020, 02:09 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Donnie loves the boys in blue and all your guys too.  


When I was reading that, I was sure he would be in the trusted section but he is lumped in there with Ainge.

Another thing it really caught my attention were a couple of opinions, that mid tier teams (so the ones that are not contending and not tanking) might be looking to reduce costs. Because, who really cares about such a sorry season if there is no way to the top. But everyone expects contenders wannabe to spend. So Orlando, Indiana and San Antonio come to mind as teams looking to trim down costs from the top of my head. The ones willing to spend can take advantage of the situation. So cash savings will have more weight than usually.

(10-21-2020, 12:32 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-21-2020, 11:36 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] Donnie was mentioned in "which GM you trust the least" with one vote. Quote: he always says, "yeah, we are very interested in your guy."

Knicks vote identified.

I think that's more of a how desperate the Mavs have been for talent. The Mavs have literally been interested in anyone. So it makes sense haha. 

But how many guys do you actually want to pay up for? That's the thing that can break some trust. 
But then again Mavs are also one of the tightest lipped front offices. So I'd personally trust them alot if I'm talking GM to GM.

---

(10-21-2020, 03:54 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Putting the recent headline of the Mavs willing to eat salary in return for a 3rd star, and listening to the Lowe Post. My wheels started turning.

Many here liked the idea of Paul Milsap as a stopgap 4. A guy who can guard bigger dudes, and is still agile enough to not get eaten alive in PnR. He's also a pretty good 3pt shooter, and has a varied offensive game. I like Paul Milsap. I don't like his age. But in my time ruminating over trades to get Milsap to Dallas, a lightbulb turned on.

Why not Blake Griffin? Seriously? Ok ok, yes his contract is pretty hefty. Yes he's probably more injury prone than KP. Yes, he might not be anything he once was. BUT! Here me out. Griffin last year arguably had his best year as a pro. He led a middling Pistons team that was bereft of talent to the playoffs. Before he went down near the end of that season, Griffin was a dark horse MVP candidate and had many thinking the Pistons could perhaps steal a series early. 
This year was a lost year for Griffin. His injuries piled up faster than the Pistons lost games, and it culminated in the Pistons sitting Blake to lose out. 

Griffin has reinvented himself. No longer is he this high-flying 4 that beats people by jumping over a car. No. Griffin last year averaged 36% from 3 on 7 attempts from the field. He dished out nearly 6 assists a game. He got to the free throw line 7.3 times a game. He was a legit all-NBA talent. He is basically an advanced version of Paul Milsap today. 

Here in Dallas, Griffin has the skill to be a secondary playmaker. In LAC, one of Griffin's go-to plays was a 4-5 PnR with Jordan that resulted in lobs all day. Griffin is also a versatile defender.  At 6'9, he's the perfect height to guard bigs, and he still has the quickness to keep up with wings. He has 2 years left on his deal with a player option in the summer of 2021. If he opted in, the Mavs could trade his expiring contract as an asset. If he opts out, the Mavs would have more than enough space to chase Giannis. 

I think Griffins value is super low. One where we could convince Detroit to take Powell off our hands, and maybe even dare I say swap picks? (Don't take that hyperbole too seriously). 

Tl;DR Griffin is available. He qualifies as a 3rd star. His contract isn't that long and theoretically shouldn't prevent us in the Giannis chase. He is a higher upside version of Paul Milsap and could conceivably be good enough to put the Mavs in contending status next year and should be cheap. Why not?

Yeah I'd love to grab Griffin IF Giannis signs his extension. Otherwise.... It's not worth the risk next summer because your max slot is gone if he opts out. 

I suppose the argument could be made if Blake plays well he's opting out so we do have the cap space still. 
They also could stretch waive him if absolutely needed to next summer and it wouldn't be too terrible. 


A potential home run offseason could have you trade THJ, Powell and Jackson for Blake (maybe you have to include the picks or 1 of them). Then take Wright plus remaining assets and whatever else needed to cap match for another starter.

Wright for Danny Green remains the obvious play although he was awful in playoffs so I'm not crazy excited about that deal. 
Fournier would be an option. Expiring deal and good shooter. Replaces the THJ role to an extent. 

Richardson would be my preference if Philly does decide to move on from him. 

Their are some decent pickups you could grab with long term money. I think Buddy would be gettable with limited assets still. I do think Bledsoe could be had. 

But why I think it could be a home run offseason with BG and a short term starter is that it could let you hit free agency next year to find your long term starting sg if you unload Powell and Wright.

---

(10-21-2020, 09:43 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Chasing the Bulls

I keep coming back to wanting to raid one of the better defensive teams in CHI this off-season.

I will take whoever can be gotten for cheap between...

• OPJ (Player option $28.4M in '21)
  
• Tomas ($10M in '21, $5M of $10M guaranteed in '22)
  
• Shaq Harrison (RFA, non-bird rights)
  
• Dunn (RFA, bird rights)
  

I think any of the four helps improve defense on the perimeter for the Mavs.

I am really intrigued by Harrison. Played 20 mins/g in '19 and 11 mins/g in '20. Shot 38% from three in limited sample size in '20, but had a HUGE impact on their D. He is 6'7" and 27.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BagaGdhS2RQ


Here are some Dunn defensive highlights:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SMznAMjpV0E

Harrison is JAG. That's the type of guy you find in the draft, 2 way or off the scrap heap. We do an excellent job at that. No reason to go chase someone else's guy. Dodo works fine. I also happen to like some 2 way guys we've rotated in.

It's a hard pass for anyone that is a bad of shooter as Dunn and who can't play basketball unless he's touching it or defending it. 
It's Delon Wright all over again. It just doesn't fit with Luka. It didn't mesh well with the bench guys all that well either.

https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/10/nba-...-more.html

Quote:“My fear is there will be a lot of teams and ownership groups that sit out free agency,” one agent said. “… In terms of player movement, I think there will be a lot. Not just signing guys. Nobody wants to pay the tax. Everybody is going to try to clear space for 2021. I can definitely see a sizeable amount of player movement. But not a lot of dollars spent.”

Quote:“Teams want to win and they’re going to spend to win,” the agent said. “Ultimately, as we saw with Denver, there’s a lot of teams within striking distance of contention and they’re not going to be cheap. The Clippers fired a coach with two years on his deal. We’re going to be fine.”

Quote:“They’re going to blow so much smoke up our a– about how bad the business model is and everything like that, but Minnesota is going to sell for $1.5 billion and it’s the worst market, as far as basketball,” the agent said. “They sold 18 years ago for $88MM and they’re going to sell for $1.5 billion? You can’t tell (me) you have a bad business.

“There’s going be revenues that are greatly reduced, but I would say to any of these teams that feel like these businesses that they can’t pour cash into to carry it through this rough spot, they should sell. Because they have opportunities. We’ll find them a buyer in a month.”

Quote:One agent said he has “never heard less enthusiasm” from teams that have high picks in this year’s draft.

Quote:One agent speculated that centers will be hit hardest by teams’ financial limitations this offseason, since clubs are focusing on players who can defend several positions. Another said that he thinks many clubs may prioritize veterans over young prospects, since cost-conscious teams may not want to use back-of-the-roster spots on guys who won’t play at all.

---

• Rich Hofmann of The Athletic evaluates a number of hypothetical trade proposals involving the [b]Sixers[/b]. Besides considering popular subjects of trade speculation such as [b]Chris Paul[/b] and [b]Buddy Hield[/b], Hofmann also explores trade ideas involving under-the-radar targets like [b]Tomas Satoransky[/b] and [b]Delon Wright[/b].