MavsBoard

(11-01-2020, 05:31 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 05:11 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Can anybody remember how upset Monta was about Chandler Parsons mini-Max.
I don't want this kind of issue for our lockerroom for a minimal upgrade who might be a downgrade.

Try to imaging being DFS, everybody talking about what a bargain your contract is and then Tobi walking in.
Even if he is doubling DFS performance, (Spoiler: he isn't) he is paid ten times money.

He might be the tenth best paid player  next year but the 60th best player.

So please name a max player who is 10 times better than DFS. These things are not linear. If jealusy is what your concern is, DFS is already totally unhappy by Wright and Powell salaries... This is a weak argument imho.

Plus, Mavs already let the guys know where their place is: "everyone is available for a trade".

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(11-01-2020, 05:11 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I don't want this kind of issue for our lockerroom for a minimal upgrade who might be a downgrade.

And please do explain, how a player like Harris is a minimal upgrade to Kleber or DFS. With all the respect to their effort on defense, their is just a collosall difference between them on the offensive side.

That's  easy LeBron, Kawhi, Giannis, Harden, hell CP3. 

Don't tell me you envy your hardworking co-worker who has been in the Company forever for 500$ more as you envy some dude doing the same job slightly better for 10 000$ more.

He is "upgrading" THJ in this situation.
The Mavs got rid of Barnes because this style of play don't mash with us. Now they add a maybe better version for twice the money?

(11-01-2020, 05:59 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Don't tell me you envy your hardworking co-worker who has been in the Company forever for 500$ more

I didn't realize Wright wasn't signed just last season for twice the DFS money while not giving one half of what DFS does.

(11-01-2020, 05:59 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Now they add a maybe better version

Maybe better? You are totally unrealistic, I am done talking. Harris is considerably better in probably every stat.

(11-01-2020, 06:13 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 05:59 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Don't tell me you envy your hardworking co-worker who has been in the Company forever for 500$ more

I didn't realize Wright wasn't signed just last season for twice the DFS money while not giving one half of what DFS does.

(11-01-2020, 05:59 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Now they add a maybe better version

Maybe better? You are totally unrealistic, I am done talking. Harris is considerably better in probably every stat.

Yeah, we already know DFS is underpaid. Wright won't be here any longer than the Trade deathline.

Ok, you are right: Better, but maybe even worse fitting is what I thought.

Doesn't change the point, Tobi being such an overpay it causes problems on all fronts.

A question. It may upset some people this thought.

Would you trade KP for Giannis, would this be possible right now this offseason? And is this feasible?

KP is injury risk (main reason I suggest this), we would have beaten Clippers if he stayed healthy. If that would happen again, its disaster. Giannis on other hand is way safer, and he is also better player for sure (secondary reason I suggest this trade). Both teams would benefit, as Bucks would be sure they get some really great player in return for Giannis as next season he may be gone for less than KP.

Would this not be a a win-win trade for both teams?

This way Dallas could also build the team further from FA, and still keep the younger core and bench, that otherwise would need to be traded away. There may still be room to acquire another more healthy star in FA in addition to Giannis?

(11-01-2020, 06:58 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]A question. It may upset some people this thought.

Would you trade KP for Giannis, would this be possible right now this offseason? And is this feasible?

KP is injury risk (main reason I suggest this), we would have beaten Clippers if he stayed healthy. If that would happen again, its disaster. Giannis on other hand is way safer, and he is also better player for sure (secondary reason I suggest this trade). Both teams would benefit, as Bucks would be sure they get some really great player in return for Giannis as next season he may be gone for less than KP.

Would this not be a a win-win trade for both teams?

This way Dallas could also build the team further from FA, and still keep the younger core and bench, that otherwise would need to be traded away. There may still be room to acquire another more healthy star in FA in addition to Giannis?

In short: if Giannis wants to be here, we get him without giving up KP. 
If not, we would give KP for nothing.

So here is no deal.

(11-01-2020, 07:17 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 06:58 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]A question. It may upset some people this thought.

Would you trade KP for Giannis, would this be possible right now this offseason? And is this feasible?

KP is injury risk (main reason I suggest this), we would have beaten Clippers if he stayed healthy. If that would happen again, its disaster. Giannis on other hand is way safer, and he is also better player for sure (secondary reason I suggest this trade). Both teams would benefit, as Bucks would be sure they get some really great player in return for Giannis as next season he may be gone for less than KP.

Would this not be a a win-win trade for both teams?

This way Dallas could also build the team further from FA, and still keep the younger core and bench, that otherwise would need to be traded away. There may still be room to acquire another more healthy star in FA in addition to Giannis?

In short: if Giannis wants to be here, we get him without giving up KP. 
If not, we would give KP for nothing.

So here is no deal.

Yes but what if he wants to be here but has a better deal somewhere else? But with this deal we get Giannis. And without this, not.

Question in the end is, are we better team with Luka-Giannis or Luka-KP? If a straight up trade would work to make it happen, and without it, Giannis goes somewhere else, it may make a lot of sense.

The thing is, it may be the best for Bucks as well.

(11-01-2020, 07:33 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 07:17 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 06:58 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]A question. It may upset some people this thought.

Would you trade KP for Giannis, would this be possible right now this offseason? And is this feasible?

KP is injury risk (main reason I suggest this), we would have beaten Clippers if he stayed healthy. If that would happen again, its disaster. Giannis on other hand is way safer, and he is also better player for sure (secondary reason I suggest this trade). Both teams would benefit, as Bucks would be sure they get some really great player in return for Giannis as next season he may be gone for less than KP.

Would this not be a a win-win trade for both teams?

This way Dallas could also build the team further from FA, and still keep the younger core and bench, that otherwise would need to be traded away. There may still be room to acquire another more healthy star in FA in addition to Giannis?

In short: if Giannis wants to be here, we get him without giving up KP. 
If not, we would give KP for nothing.

So here is no deal.

Yes but what if he wants to be here but has a better deal somewhere else? But with this deal we get Giannis. And without this, not.

Question in the end is, are we better team with Luka-Giannis or Luka-KP? If a straight up trade would work to make it happen, and without it, Giannis goes somewhere else, it may make a lot of sense.

The thing is, it may be the best for Bucks as well.

Theoretical: I don't know, if I would do it. If the question is KP or Giannis - everything else equal. Giannis seems to be the saver bet.

Practical: I don't see how Giannis wants to be here if we trade away KP, but not if we keep him.

Only way he get a better deal, is if he signs the Supermax with the Bucks and powerplays a trade half a year later. I keep KP then.

I think in a magical world where Mavs have Luka, KP & Giannis you do have some overlap that could cause some issues. Giannis handles the ball a lot like a point-forward and much of that would go away with Luka. When they play together Giannis would be used more like Shaq probably. He also does post-ups which Rick doesn't really like but Giannis needs a role in the offense so he'd probably get a fair amount of looks. KP would have some redundancy as well and might get forced into a floor spacer role like when Powell was out there.

Defensively they would be pretty great on the interior. My thinking is that Giannis incoming means likely KP exiting at some point. Giannis would need to be like a 5 in Rick's system which is what KP is now. Anyways I'd loved to be tasked with that problem and Rick could figure it out.

People act like Giannis and Luka are a perfect match but they aren't really on paper just because Luka handles the ball so much it takes the ball out of Giannis' hands. Now the counter point is that you can give Luka some breaks out there and let him do more off-ball stuff. Rick would do a lot of minute staggering which means you'd have probably 1 of Giannis, Luka out there at all times which would be a nightmare for other teams.

Anywho I am definitely on board at this point to see how the Giannis sweepstakes goes. It doesn't sound like he's going to sign the Supermax so it's worth playing this thing out at this point. I definitely wouldn't forgo a shot at Giannis for a Buddy Hield type, good not great player that will eat up cap space in 2021.

My concern is that the Mavs will try again in 2022 which I think is when Luka signs his max extension which means another stop-gap year.

I am surprised that Mavs fans don't know that KP and Giannis have at least a (little) connection apart from basketball.

Not sure if its enough to call them "friends" as of today. Guess Giannis is rather the solo guy, but if you want to list 5 relationships Giannis have with players that aren't on the Bucks, i think KP makes that list. They are both 25 years old, Since a lot of free agency decisions seems to be heavily influenced by off the floor relationships as well, KP is probably the most underrated draw.

Quote:New York Knicks star Kristaps Porzingis landed in Athens and headed to the Acropolis Museum— toured by none other than fellow NBA hoopsters Giannis and Thanasis Antetokounmpo.

Porzingis was invited by the pair to take part in the “Antetokounbros Streetball Event”, which is organized by Eurohoops and the city of Athens, that encourages basketball playing amongst the kids of Greece.

(11-01-2020, 07:33 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 07:17 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 06:58 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]A question. It may upset some people this thought.

Would you trade KP for Giannis, would this be possible right now this offseason? And is this feasible?

KP is injury risk (main reason I suggest this), we would have beaten Clippers if he stayed healthy. If that would happen again, its disaster. Giannis on other hand is way safer, and he is also better player for sure (secondary reason I suggest this trade). Both teams would benefit, as Bucks would be sure they get some really great player in return for Giannis as next season he may be gone for less than KP.

Would this not be a a win-win trade for both teams?

This way Dallas could also build the team further from FA, and still keep the younger core and bench, that otherwise would need to be traded away. There may still be room to acquire another more healthy star in FA in addition to Giannis?

In short: if Giannis wants to be here, we get him without giving up KP. 
If not, we would give KP for nothing.

So here is no deal.

Yes but what if he wants to be here but has a better deal somewhere else? But with this deal we get Giannis. And without this, not.

Question in the end is, are we better team with Luka-Giannis or Luka-KP? If a straight up trade would work to make it happen, and without it, Giannis goes somewhere else, it may make a lot of sense.

The thing is, it may be the best for Bucks as well.

It's purely theoretical bc what we see in these situations is that the team tries to hold on as long as they can. It actually helps the team when the player tells them they want out, even though we then attack the player as a real jerk. Anthony Davis telling his team he wants out means they got a ransom of picks and talent to replace him.

So in this theoretical trade I would always take the bird in the hand provided Giannis signs an extension as part of the trade. If you get Giannis locked in for 4 or 5 years you take that all day every day over KP. You don't leave those things to chance for Miami to swoop in and make a better offer. Lots of things can change over even a short period of time. I have concerns about how a Giannis/KP would co-exist anyway so I would definitely take Giannis, then it'd be easy pickins to find a third guy to join your team.

Bucks would still be a contender imo if they had KP, Middleton and then made some other moves to shore up their roster. At any rate this deal will never happen.

(10-31-2020, 03:14 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]How about this desperate proposal, just for something new to discuss?

Powell+Wright+Curry for Horford, Korkmaz (or Thybulle) and #21

We basically don't add to 2021 cap, so we are approximately one Kleber trade or one Horford dump away from max spot. Horford is probably still best player in the trade. We add a couple of assets. 

Philly gets their shooter, back up PG and back up center. They don't save in 2020 tax money (but good luck getting less salary back for that awful Horford overpay).

I myself don’t see Horford as much of the impact player anymore, and while I wanted more for the Harris trade, I’d want a lot more for this one.

(11-01-2020, 09:17 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I myself don’t see Horford as much of the impact player anymore, and while I wanted more for the Harris trade, I’d want a lot more for this one.

I think this is the range of assets needed it gets Horford traded. Also please mind Powell and Wright dumped value at least 1 FRP and one SRP. I saw some rumors about SA with some of Aldridge, Mills, Gay. I can see Charlotte as interested (they could just send Zeller back which would be super great for Philly). Cleveland for Love also makes sense. 

I am not saying I would push for this trade, just saying this might be the value of taking that contract.

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(11-01-2020, 08:38 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I have concerns about how a Giannis/KP would co-exist anyway

There should be absolutely no concern about their fit. Milwaukee basically has KP light in Lopez and they fit great together. The concern (if there has to be one) is if Luka and Giannis can coexist. Because Giannis would have to stop being a point forward.

(11-01-2020, 09:48 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

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(11-01-2020, 08:38 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I have concerns about how a Giannis/KP would co-exist anyway

There should be absolutely no concern about their fit. Milwaukee basically has KP light in Lopez and they fit great together. The concern (if there has to be one) is if Luka and Giannis can coexist. Because Giannis would have to stop being a point forward.

I would say it's a concern but one that I would be happy for Rick to figure out. I realize that Giannis co-existed with Lopez but that was where Giannis was the primary playmaker with him out there. I did not care for the Bucks offense at all, especially in the playoffs. Teams figured out how to counter Giannis + 4 guys standing on the 3 point line. Giannis off-ball doesn't really give you anything because he can't shoot. He really needs to be the primary ball handler or the 5. In Rick's system he would be the 5 and I guess KP would be the 4 on offense. Anyways it's a lovely problem to have and they would be really good. I just am not 100% sure that those 3 guys together is an automatic championship.

The entire point of the "fit" is that Giannis, with the ball in his hands, has a definite ceiling. Those who've watched the Bucks consistently know what I'm talking about. Playing with a great playmaker like Luka is the best way to unlock his top mode, imo. 

But, as we discussed in the other thread, HE would have to agree with that in order to be excited about coming here.

What might the impact of a hurried off-season be?  Fewer bids for RFA's?  Free Agency will be over during the two days money is tied up.  How about unrestricted free agency:



"There are only six teams projected to have real cap space, five of which fell to the lottery last season. (The sixth, Miami, might only be willing to dole out one-year deals as the Heat pine for Giannis Antetokounmpo.) If those six teams hurry to make moves or choose to limit their spending in a pandemic economy—taking the possibility of bigger, long-term contracts off the board—veteran free agents could look for the mid-level escape hatch.
 
Agents and players aren’t above momentary panic; if the offseason landscape gives way to an avalanche of player movement, it’s only natural that some might look for the stability of a reasonably compensated role with a playoff team. There just aren’t that many desirable markets with cap space to choose from. This puts free agents in a bind; by ruling out even one or two teams from the six with ample money to spend, whether for basketball reasons or personal preference, a player could box themselves out of the lucrative contracts they expected to sign. This is where things get interesting for the contending set. Once a player starts to weigh one team’s midlevel exception against another’s, it becomes easier for winning teams to compete on the open market."


The story goes on to say the class of players who might have expected MLE+ on a multi-year basis may have to scramble for the best MLE one year offer they can get from a contender.  They talk about the Lakers, but let's think about this for a moment.  If you are Gallinari (for example) do you fight for that spot in LA knowing they stand no chance of retaining you in 21.  Or, do you go to less of a sure thing from a contention standpoint, but at least they will have cap room a year from now (like, I don't know...maybe Dallas).  The Dallas pitch is come here and if things work out, we will be in a good position to keep you a year from now.

https://www.theringer.com/nba/2020/10/30...son-trades

(11-01-2020, 12:01 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'd love him at those numbers.

I wonder what sign and trade iterations there are that might be appealing to SAC in order to get Bogdan around $15M. Certainly SAC would be interested in turning Bogdan into something positive for them....

(11-01-2020, 02:41 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What might the impact of a hurried off-season be?  Fewer bids for RFA's?  Free Agency will be over during the two days money is tied up.  How about unrestricted free agency

I find it unlikely, that players will be signing below the market contracts. There is always an option to resign with your current team. Look at Gallo for example. Let's say tanking teams are not looking to sign him for big money. But I am quite sure he can resign with OKC in the 12-14 per range. This can be SnT or a later trade. OKC would look at such a contract as an asset. Perhaps Gallo is a bad example, I just can't see him sign for MLE. If he will, I just can't see him sign with such discount outside of a clearcut contender.

I think guys like Gasol, Whiteside, Teague, Favors, Bazemore, Thompson, Harkless and Milsap won't see more than MLE this offseason.

Good players like Davis, Ingram, Ibaka, Dragic, Morris, Clarkson, Grant, FVV, Harris, Bertans, Harrell, Beasley and Bogdanovic will get higher than MLE offers from their current teams.

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(11-01-2020, 03:00 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder what sign and trade iterations there are that might be appealing to SAC in order to get Bogdan around $15M. Certainly SAC would be interested in turning Bogdan into something positive for them....

I think Sacramento will have to decide between Bogdan and Hield first. If you are trading Hield, paying 15 per for Bogi is not terrible for them. If they are keeping Hield, I would SnT Bogi for best offer.

I would say Wright+Jackson+#18 is a fair offer from Dallas perspective, but I doubt it is from Sacramento one. I see the following problems though:
1. Is Bogi really good enough to be our long term solution at SG? I would prefer a better defender. I am also not trading THJ for Bogi.
2. Sacramento already has an overpaid back up PG in Joseph, who is similar bad fit for us as Wright.
3. Sacramento needs are at SG and SF positions. SF is a no go for us, we are not trading DFS. 

This means we can either use Wright and motivate them with picks to take him. Alternatively we could use Curry (he would be useful for them), salary filler and a minor pick. Bogi would eat into Curry minutes anyway. 

What would be best would be to use Curry+Wright+pick. This move would make our cap hit neutral, so we are still just one Powell move from max cap space in 2021. We need to include pick because of the Wright contract. Perhaps 31 would be enough.

(11-01-2020, 03:28 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-01-2020, 02:41 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What might the impact of a hurried off-season be?  Fewer bids for RFA's?  Free Agency will be over during the two days money is tied up.  How about unrestricted free agency

I find it unlikely, that players will be signing below the market contracts. 

I think guys like Gasol, Whiteside, Teague, Favors, Bazemore, Thompson, Harkless and Milsap won't see more than MLE this offseason.

Good players like Davis, Ingram, Ibaka, Dragic, Morris, Clarkson, Grant, FVV, Harris, Bertans, Harrell, Beasley and Bogdanovic will get higher than MLE offers from their current teams.

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I think Sacramento will have to decide between Bogdan and Hield first. If you are trading Hield, paying 15 per for Bogi is not terrible for them. If they are keeping Hield, I would SnT Bogi for best offer.

I would say Wright+Jackson+#18 is a fair offer from Dallas perspective, but I doubt it is from Sacramento one. I see the following problems though: 

Under normal circumstances I'd agree.  The point of the article is this may be the one time guys just jump on a good train for a few months and look for a better long term situation in the summer.  I suspect some of our list will turn out to be correct and some won't.  The question is degree to which that happens and who.

As to trading 18 for a RFA, don't forget the order of operation issue.  We have to draft a player Sacramento wants and Sacramento and Bogdan are perfectly free to change their mind afterward (hard to imagine a FA changing their mind after agreeing to come to Dallas, but I hear its possible  ).   I'm starting to see a trend among some of the better national writers where they don't just lump 18 and Hardaway into deals because they know Dallas may not control Hardaway on the night of the draft.  Same is true with trading 18 for free agents (even those who would probably love to be in Dallas).

(11-01-2020, 05:19 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]As to trading 18 for a RFA, don't forget the order of operation issue. 

I forgot about that one. So 2020 picks are a no go, unless Sacramento likes the player we drafted. Future seconds are meh, so 2025 is our only future asset.

@"DanSchwartzman" when is the deadline for opt-in/out and when is the draft? I thought the opt-in deadline was before the draft?