MavsBoard

(11-23-2020, 01:36 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Saw dlord talking about Buddy on twitter. 
I can't help but wonder if the Kings decide to go ahead and match it and hang onto to both with the idea they move buddy by the start of next season? Shoot you can match and keep both and move one in the offseason.

In my own biased opinion, that makes the most sense.

Bogdon would be nearly 20 mil cheaper overall than Buddy over the course of his contract. He's also less of a drama queen. Considering Buddy has done everything possible to signal he wants to leave, I am SUPER puzzled why the Kings chose to move on from Bogdon.

Not only would Bogi be cheaper, he also replicates about 80% of what Buddy brings, AND is okay with coming off the bench. Considering they just drafted combo guard Haliburton, they have to ask themselves who would make more sense to keep?? Buddy doesn't want to come off the bench, and Haliburton isn't a SF. 

Again, I really don't know why the Kings don't just match the Bogdon deal and move on from Buddy and get other assets for him. 

But I'm also biased, and would believe Buddy Love would be such a perfect fit on this team.

(11-23-2020, 01:36 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Saw dlord talking about Buddy on twitter. 
I can't help but wonder if the Kings decide to go ahead and match it and hang onto to both with the idea they move buddy by the start of next season? Shoot you can match and keep both and move one in the offseason.

Well, the word going into the off season is that they absolutely had to move one (if not both) to have enough money to extend Fox. I don't expect them to match, myself, given how there doesn't seem to be a market for Hield. They also just drafted Haliburton, and need space for him to play.

---

https://twitter.com/sam_amick/status/133...55877?s=20

I do think OPJ is a real trade possibility later this year. With the WCS signing, the Mavs could trade Johnson+WCS+Brunson+1 min. salary player for OPJ. Or Johnson+WCS+DFS.

Doing some digging on the right now cause stuff isn't adding up. Currently the estimated salaries for the Mavs roster is 

James Johnson-16 
JRich-10.9
THJ-19
Maxi-8.25
Luka -8.1
Kristaps 29.5
Powell-11
DFS-4
Boban-3.5
Burke~3.1
WCS~4.1
JJ-1.8
Iwundu-1.8
Terry/Bey- Whatever is left of the MLE (which I believe is around 3 mil). 

Going into next summer, if the Mavs waive WCS, Richardson declines his player option, the Mavs total team salary will be just a hair under 80 million. Essentially giving them 33 mill in cap space. Basically right at Giannis' max. 

But the Mavs have a quirky thing going on where they have 1 too many players, with Townsend's sources hinting that they the Mavs still have a roster spot despite having none. Puzzling. 

Well after cjeter brought up DLord and the Buddy situation (where apparently there are zero suitors for him), I did some digging on Buddy's contract.  According to Spotrac, here are Buddy's numbers: 20-21: 24,931,818, 21-22: 18,568,183(500K incentive), 22-23: 18,568,183 (500K incentive), 23-24: 20,522,728(500K) incentive. 

I was so confused because I could've sworn that Buddy was being paid 22 mil the summer of Giannis, and then 20 mill the next year. But Spotrac lists those numbers as his dead money numbers. Divac structured Buddy's contract with a crap ton of incentives. 8 mil in likely incentives, and nearly 12 mil of unlikely incentives. These unlikely incentives include making the WCF or the Finals, being an all-star, etc. Consequently, Spotrac only lists Buddy's cap hit as 19,068,183. 

So lets say hypothetically the Mavs trade for Buddy, and give up THJ+Brunson+someone else (DFS? Kleber? Powell?). 

The Mavs would only be a single trade away from Giannis' max. If it was Powell, the Mavs would be a smidge under 8 mill from Giannis' max (1 Kleber trade or Green and DFS). If they traded Kleber then Mavs will need to clear about 10 mil, which could be done by trading Powell, or S/W him and trading another piece. 

In any case, Buddy may just be much more affordable than we all thought. And since the market is relatively shallow for him, perhaps the Mavs could convince the Kings to trade for Powell. I'd be more than willing to throw multiple picks in a trade like that. Because then the Mavs would just need to clear Kleber from the roster and could go to Giannis with Luka/Buddy/KP core with DFS/Green/Terry. Mavs could also get even more creative because some of our trades are not finalized yet. Just some food for thought.

TlR: Buddy is way cheaper than I thought. Perhaps the Mavs could be suitors for Buddy given the Kings predicament.

I think I'd rather have JRich than Buddy.

(11-23-2020, 02:36 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I think I'd rather have JRich than Buddy.

We'd have JRich for this season. Next season we're obviously prioritizing Giannis. If Giannis were to come here, JRich would have to go, Buddy or no Buddy. 

If we whiff on Giannis we can keep JRich.

At any rate, Kings need to trade Buddy. I think that relationship is beyond repair. I'd keep Bogdan if I were them but maybe that relationship is fubar too. I'd probably sign him no matter what and trade him next offseason. You could pick up a first round pick for him pretty easily.

Buddy's a better version of THJ but more expensive with the additional bonus of knowing what he costs. Could you convince the Kings to take THJ (expiring) and Powell? Both of those guys are team guys so with Barnes (and Fox), you'd have an improved culture over Hield. If they don't retain Bogdan, you could probably retain THJ long term at a similar number or lesser and certain lesser than Hield's number. If not, you could flip THJ at the trade dead line. If Buddy has no trade suitors, his value is neutral at best and more than likely negative. Including Powell probably means you need to sweeten the deal.

-THJ + Brunson works
-THJ + Powell works
-THJ + Powell + Brunson works

I still think they need more compensation in the event that Powell is part of the deal. I'm not comfortable trading away the 2027 FRP. Do they have a shorter term bad contract they could send with him (Corey Joseph or Jabari Parker)? We could include 2nd round picks or some of this years draft class.

But back to there being no interest league wide to trade for Hield, does that give you pause? Do the Mavs have interest? Where the Mavs even linked to Bogdan? And if you are the Kings, you should obviously not take back Powell. It is the Kings and all but maybe you just swap THJ/Brunson or THJ/Iwundu + a future SRP.

I think Hield is super interesting and we could make him the best version of himself which would be a further upgrade to THJ. Maybe you could make him a neutral defender. He is a risky move though and if you do trade for him and include assets, it needs to work out because if it doesn't you are going to have a hard time getting off of his contract.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding the no leaguewide interest in Buddy. Maybe the asking price is just too high which wouldn't be surprising considering the haul that the Jrue trade generated.

(11-23-2020, 03:46 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I think Hield is super interesting and we could make him the best version of himself which would be a further upgrade to THJ.  Maybe you could make him a neutral defender.  He is a risky move though and if you do trade for him and include assets, it needs to work out because if it doesn't you are going to have a hard time getting off of his contract.

Just some food for thought: 

-Buddy has made more 3's in the last 2 years than Seth Curry has made in his entire career (549 to 446).
-Buddy's worst year as a pro (his rookie year) saw him average 39% from 3, and made 148 threes total. Good for 29th in the league. Seth Curry last year made the most 3's he's ever made as a pro with 145. 
- Buddy has 873 made 3's in his career. He's made the most 3's in the shortest amount of time in NBA history. He beat Steph Curry by 8 games.
- THJ has 944 made threes in his entire 7 year career. 

Buddy's level of shooting is literally only matched by Steph Curry. He's arguably a better shooter than Klay Thompson, Ray Allen, and Reggie Miller. His only issue is that is probably his only elite skill. He isn't a great defender. He's not a ball handler. He's not a play maker. But man, can he shoot it.

(11-23-2020, 03:01 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-23-2020, 02:36 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I think I'd rather have JRich than Buddy.

We'd have JRich for this season. Next season we're obviously prioritizing Giannis. If Giannis were to come here, JRich would have to go, Buddy or no Buddy. 

If we whiff on Giannis we can keep JRich.

Nah, we can keep JRich, we just have to dump Powell and Maxi(or do a sign and trade).

(11-23-2020, 04:10 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Just some food for thought: 

-Buddy has made more 3's in the last 2 years than Seth Curry has made in his entire career (549 to 446).
-Buddy's worst year as a pro (his rookie year) saw him average 39% from 3, and made 148 threes total. Good for 29th in the league. Seth Curry last year made the most 3's he's ever made as a pro with 145. 
- Buddy has 873 made 3's in his career. He's made the most 3's in the shortest amount of time in NBA history. He beat Steph Curry by 8 games.
- THJ has 944 made threes in his entire 7 year career. 

Buddy's level of shooting is literally only matched by Steph Curry. He's arguably a better shooter than Klay Thompson, Ray Allen, and Reggie Miller. His only issue is that is probably his only elite skill. He isn't a great defender. He's not a ball handler. He's not a play maker. But man, can he shoot it.

Dude's a bucket, I get that. I've been campaigning for him. But why is there no trade market for him?

-Attitude (not returning Walton's call), not happy a sixth man, asking off the team. That's not great, but again he's so offensively talented, I can't imagine that attitude issue would push away all suitors. Plus you have to factor in the organization he is part of.
-Hi contract isn't terrible.
-Asking price (starting to think this is it). Maybe they want an expiring, young prospect and picks.

Show me your trade ideas to entice them to move him, please. What if they said, we want Allen, Brunson, THJ and 20217 FRP?

And again, are the Mavs even interested?

(11-23-2020, 04:19 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Dude's a bucket, I get that.  I've been campaigning for him.  But why is there no trade market for him?

-Attitude (not returning Walton's call), not happy a sixth man, asking off the team.  That's not great, but again he's so offensively talented, I can't imagine that attitude issue would push away all suitors.  Plus you have to factor in the organization he is part of. 
-Hi contract isn't terrible.
-Asking price (starting to think this is it).  Maybe they want an expiring, young prospect and picks. 

Show me your trade ideas to entice them to move him, please.

And again, are the Mavs even interested?

I mean, the simple reason why there isn't a trade market for him is that the Kings could be asking for too much. There was a huge Buddy trade market over the summer, with Philly being the one team extremely interested in him. But now that they have Curry at half the cost the market has died down.

Second, despite the fact that he's a walking bucket, Buddy is one dimensional. There aren't many teams dying for shooting. The contenders who'd love him, probably can't afford to absorb his contract easily by matching salaries without giving up a key rotation player. Tanking teams don't want him because he isn't going to save a franchise. How many teams off the top of your head would want Buddy at 20 million? Knicks because they need everything, Charlotte because they need everything, I'd say the Mavs, Warriors are interesting with Klay going down and Wiggins contract there. But there are no seamless fits. And all of this rests on what SAC even is asking for him, which are probably multiple picks and a young player, which is a steep price. 

The only trade that makes sense for the Mavs is based around THJ. Add in Brunson for value. I'd believe any deal starts with THJ+Brunson as the baseline. Alone it just seems like a simple swap of SG's and the Mavs give up a young prospect. What I think is happening is that the Kings are asking for even more in the form of draft compensation. To which the Mavs are like "bro why would we do that when another actual star SG could come up for trade at any moment (Beal)". 

My ideal and probably most realistic trade is THJ+Brunson+Powell+2027 1st top 10 protected+2023/2025 2nds for Buddy+(insert 1 of Parker, Holmes, Bjelicia, all 3 are 1 year deals).

My reasoning to including the picks is that the Mavs are looking to be contenders for the next several years. I think Buddy really does significantly improve their chances at that. Further if the Mavs DO land a big fish next summer, all the picks go out the window, because the Mavs will consistently be the best team in the NBA. 30th picks are more than worth Buddy. And the core would be locked in with Luka/KP/Buddy/Big Fish.

(11-23-2020, 04:30 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, the simple reason why there isn't a trade market for him is that the Kings could be asking for too much. There was a huge Buddy trade market over the summer, with Philly being the one team extremely interested in him. But now that they have Curry at half the cost the market has died down.

Second, despite the fact that he's a walking bucket, Buddy is one dimensional. There aren't many teams dying for shooting. The contenders who'd love him, probably can't afford to absorb his contract easily by matching salaries without giving up a key rotation player. Tanking teams don't want him because he isn't going to save a franchise. How many teams off the top of your head would want Buddy at 20 million? Knicks because they need everything, Charlotte because they need everything, I'd say the Mavs, Warriors are interesting with Klay going down and Wiggins contract there. But there are no seamless fits. And all of this rests on what SAC even is asking for him, which are probably multiple picks and a young player, which is a steep price. 

The only trade that makes sense for the Mavs is based around THJ. Add in Brunson for value. I'd believe any deal starts with THJ+Brunson as the baseline. Alone it just seems like a simple swap of SG's and the Mavs give up a young prospect. What I think is happening is that the Kings are asking for even more in the form of draft compensation. To which the Mavs are like "bro why would we do that when another actual star SG could come up for trade at any moment (Beal)". 

My ideal and probably most realistic trade is THJ+Brunson+Powell+2027 1st top 10 protected+2023/2025 2nds for Buddy+(insert 1 of Parker, Holmes, Bjelicia, all 3 are 1 year deals).

My reasoning to including the picks is that the Mavs are looking to be contenders for the next several years. I think Buddy really does significantly improve their chances at that. Further if the Mavs DO land a big fish next summer, all the picks go out the window, because the Mavs will consistently be the best team in the NBA. 30th picks are more than worth Buddy. And the core would be locked in with Luka/KP/Buddy/Big Fish.

Warriors was my first though but Kings are trying to clear cap room son that second year of Wiggins is probably a no-go.

2027 FRP is probably a deal killer for me. That's so far down the road that even if you do get Giannis next summer, you have no idea what the team looks like. Protections help but it also kicks available drat pick trades down the road. It also severely limits your opportunities moving forward short of resending the protections on 23.

I'm also starting to doubt he Mavs are interested. Granted we did go after Gallo who is equally one dimensional but he was also a big body which the team kind of needs at this point. If Hield was/is a target, I'd assume Bogi was too and we really didn't hear any Mavs interest in him.

Maybe I'm just trying to not get my hopes up.

Or it's just the Mavs don't like Buddy as a fit/person/player/ or his contract. 
I don't like any of this. 

He is a special shooter say his stats. What does they say about him being a special player in a good sense?

(11-23-2020, 04:51 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Or it's just the Mavs don't like Buddy as a fit/person/player/ or his contract. 
I don't like any of this. 

He is a special shooter say his stats. What does they say about him being a special player in a good sense?

On the one hand, he seems like a malcontent and the most charitable reading of how he carries himself is that he's immature (he's 27!), on the other hand it's the Kings.  The perception of Tyreke Evans attitude sure did change when he got to a good organization.  Too bad about the drugs though.

There is a high chance Rick would kill Buddy if he were traded here.

We still need to take risks to get players here as the Luka/KP draw hasn't simmered to perfection yet but I'm not sue how risky we should get. I'd do a Buddy swap on the cheap I guess but I don't think the Kings are going to let him go for THJ/Brunson and some 2nd rounders.

(11-23-2020, 04:57 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-23-2020, 04:51 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Or it's just the Mavs don't like Buddy as a fit/person/player/ or his contract. 
I don't like any of this. 

He is a special shooter say his stats. What does they say about him being a special player in a good sense?

On the one hand, he seems like a malcontent and the most charitable reading of how he carries himself is that he's immature (he's 27!), on the other hand it's the Kings.  The perception of Tyreke Evans attitude sure did change when he got to a good organization.  Too bad about the drugs though.

There is a high chance Rick would kill Buddy if he were traded here. 

We still need to take risks to get players here as the Luka/KP draw hasn't simmered to perfection yet but I'm not sue how risky we should get.  I'd do a Buddy swap on the cheap I guess but I don't think the Kings are going to let him go for THJ/Brunson and some 2nd rounders.

There are different kinds of malcontent. 
1 Someone just not fitting in, but keep it going till a trade - aka Delon.
2 Someone out of everything aka Odom, Delonte. 
3 Someone to egocentric to adapt aka Rondo. 
4 Or someone on growing pains aka DSJ, Fultz.
5 Injuries

I think there can be found value in 1 or 5 and maybe 4 but 4 & 5 is risky. 

27, taking the money and crying for trade? Don't want anything to do with that.

After watching this,

https://youtu.be/E0vqvcZeXi0

...I don't want the ancient mummified relics of JJB to keep Hinton out of a two-way contract.

Cut Green for JJB? Bold, but nope.
Cut Terry for JJB? Nope.
Cut Wes for JJB? Nope.
Cut Tiger for JJB? Tbqh, the least atrocious of these options. But nope. 

JJB, take your seat on the bench next to RC and the assistants and let the kids play.

(11-23-2020, 05:30 AM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]After watching this,

https://youtu.be/E0vqvcZeXi0

...I don't want the ancient mummified relics of JJB to keep Hinton out of a two-way contract.

Cut Green for JJB? Bold, but nope.
Cut Terry for JJB? Nope.
Cut Wes for JJB? Nope.
Cut Tiger for JJB? Tbqh, the least atrocious of these options. But nope. 

JJB, take your seat on the bench next to RC and the assistants and let the kids play.

I would've loved to see what this guy could've done in Summer league. Such a shame the NBA cancelled it.

That swagger.  That hustle.  Nice!

Guys still getting worked up over the 15th roster spot.

Whoever they don’t have instead of JJB was not going to be more impactful. It’s really not a huge deal. That’s guy isn't playing anyways(honestly 13-15 shouldn’t be). If the Mavs think having JJB at the back of the bench is better for the team, the locker room, and Luka then it’s fine. I’m not going to get mad about that roster spot.

(11-23-2020, 08:50 AM)Drew Wrote: [ -> ]Guys still getting worked up over the 15th roster spot.

Whoever they don’t have instead of JJB was not going to be more impactful. It’s really not a huge deal. That’s guy isn't playing anyways(honestly 13-15 shouldn’t be). If the Mavs think having JJB at the back of the bench is better for the team, the locker room, and Luka then it’s fine.  I’m not going to get mad about that roster spot.

That´s one way to look at it and I somewhat agree. The other is about maximizing the chance to add more talent. It´s not very likely but sometimes two-way guys turn into really good players.
Let´s say the Heat cut Duncan Robinson to give DWade one more contract. Would look pretty bad right now.