(11-11-2020, 10:54 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas gives up Wright/DFS and 18 for Oubre Rental and 10.
If this is on the table sign and run away, before they change their mind. It would be hard to see DFS go, but #10 should give us a great 3-D prospect, probably ready to contribute immediately behind Oubre.
Personally I am with Killer on this one, I could see DFS as valuable enough to cover the difference between #10 and #18, if that would be the only pieces on the table. But we are also getting Oubre and get rid of Wright.
Just thinking about team motivations for a minute.
Without Paul, OKC is looking at a virtual blank slate in 2021 salary. Combine that with a full rebuild, and they're in a good position to absorb some salaries if it acquires affordable young assets and picks. With SGA and Dort, they also seem to have a direction in the backcourt.
The Clippers need a PG. Beverley is not only the obvious trade match for Rubio, but it also sounds like he's been in the anti-Kawhi/George camp. So I'm guessing he's in the deal.
Dallas wants cap space for '21. They also want a defender at PG and an upgrade at wing, and seem willing to trade the pick to make it happen.
Put it all together, and I could see a scenario where Dallas gets both Beverley and Oubre (two Duffy clients, FWIW).
Paul to Phoenix
Rubio to LA
Beverley/Oubre to Dallas
Shamet/DFS/10/18 and Dallas cap filler to OKC
That cap filler would have to be about $20mm. So for arguments sake, make it Wright and Powell. By sending them long-term deals, Dallas can afford Beverley while still creating lots of space in '21. And I bet OKC could make good use of them as well both now and in the future. Note that a few minor players may also have to be sent out by OKC to LA/Phoenix just to manage roster slots, but that's so simple I consider it noise.
Long story short, I think that's the sort of deal that fits the needs and character of each team.
Would you trade DFS/Wright/Powell/18 for Oubre/Beverley?
(11-11-2020, 12:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I sure hope you're right @"DanSchwartzman"
Again from a very good poster on another site: Whatever the construct of this, I think it is important the components stand on their own separately. With picks involved, some components might depend on a player being there.
So, in some form the base deal is OKC getting Rubio/Oubre/10 for Paul. Including Dallas could be dependent on a certain player being there at 10. BTW, it doesn’t have to be Oubre coming to Dallas. It could be Beverley or Schroder (Shroder or Oubre do a better job of accomplishing the pick/2021 room agenda). The Rubio to LAC part might not include picks, so it could be totally sealed with the Dallas part being contingent. If Beverley is outgoing, it might make more sense for Shroder to come to Dallas.
OKC gets Beverley, Wright, Oubre, DFS, Shamet and 18 for giving up CP3 and Shroder.
(11-11-2020, 12:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Just thinking about team motivations for a minute.
Without Paul, OKC is looking at a virtual blank slate in 2021 salary. Combine that with a full rebuild, and they're in a good position to absorb some salaries if it acquires affordable young assets and picks. With SGA and Dort, they also seem to have a direction in the backcourt.
The Clippers need a PG. Beverley is not only the obvious trade match for Rubio, but it also sounds like he's been in the anti-Kawhi/George camp. So I'm guessing he's in the deal.
Dallas wants cap space for '21. They also want a defender at PG and an upgrade at wing, and seem willing to trade the pick to make it happen.
Put it all together, and I could see a scenario where Dallas gets both Beverley and Oubre (two Duffy clients, FWIW).
Paul to Phoenix
Rubio to LA
Beverley/Oubre to Dallas
Shamet/DFS/10/18 and Dallas cap filler to OKC
That cap filler would have to be about $20mm. So for arguments sake, make it Wright and Powell. By sending them long-term deals, Dallas can afford Beverley while still creating lots of space in '21. And I bet OKC could make good use of them as well both now and in the future. Note that a few minor players may also have to be sent out by OKC to LA/Phoenix just to manage roster slots, but that's so simple I consider it noise.
Long story short, I think that's the sort of deal that fits the needs and character of each team.
Would you trade DFS/Wright/Powell/18 for Oubre/Beverley?
I'm not sure I'd make the deal, but THIS is something that I can see being AVAILABLE.
(11-11-2020, 12:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Would you trade DFS/Wright/Powell/18 for Oubre/Beverley?
I think it is a fair value.
(11-11-2020, 12:51 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 12:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Would you trade DFS/Wright/Powell/18 for Oubre/Beverley?
I think it is a fair value.
I don't see much value at all in Beverley on his own - terrible human being, on the downside of his career, health problems, etc. That said, he probably gets some minutes at the back end of the rotation. I would consider him a barely positive acquisition for the Mavs. An Oubre rental - hard to say. Depends on how much it buoys the Mavs in 2020-21 to look good for '21 free agents, as it's hard to imagine the guy being here long-term. Clearing Wright and Powell's contracts is as solid gold as A.C. Green.
I'm probably down with sacrificing 18 for dumping both of those contracts, the Oubre rental, and adding Beverley as a back-end rotation guy, while recognizing that would cost more than just 18. I would probably include Curry or Kleber. DFS, with his role on the Mavs and his contract, is just too rich for me. I think I'd be out on that, and fairly depressed bordering on bitter if the Mavs did it.
maybe there is a reason no one mentions Mavs (other than that Knocks fan page) and we aren't part of that deal.
I still have an easier time seeing a world in which Dallas is lusting after Rubio than the one where LAC wants him, tbtach.
I know LAC needs a PG, but I'm telling you guys now: DON'T WRITE THAT OFF. Dallas goes out of their way about once a year to let us know how much they like Rubio's game.
(11-11-2020, 01:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see much value at all in Beverley on his own - terrible human being, on the downside of his career, health problems, etc. That said, he probably gets some minutes at the back end of the rotation. I would consider him a barely positive acquisition for the Mavs.
You do remember that Dallas wanted to sign Beverly last off-season, right?
He'd start here, and would be one of the "dogs" they've been telling us they think they need to get.
(11-11-2020, 01:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I still have an easier time seeing a world in which Dallas is lusting after Rubio than the one where LAC wants him, tbtach.
I know LAC needs a PG, but I'm telling you guys now: DON'T WRITE THAT OFF. Dallas goes out of their way about once a year to let us know how much they like Rubio's game.
I might have agreed pre-Luka, but Rubio's magic happens when he's got the ball in his hands. I don't see that fitting with Luka.
Ugh. So much speculation. This is going to be a long week.
(11-11-2020, 01:05 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 01:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I still have an easier time seeing a world in which Dallas is lusting after Rubio than the one where LAC wants him, tbtach.
I know LAC needs a PG, but I'm telling you guys now: DON'T WRITE THAT OFF. Dallas goes out of their way about once a year to let us know how much they like Rubio's game.
I might have agreed pre-Luka, but Rubio's magic happens when he's got the ball in his hands. I don't see that fitting with Luka.
Ok, I get that, but consider the following:
1) Kemba Walker - I 100% believe they want another playmaker (or 3). I have stated again and again that I don't think it has to come from the PG position, but for whatever reason, there are indications that THEY might just have that position specifically targeted. Walker, Dragic, Holiday...etc.
2) I feel like they might want someone else to spell Luka by bringing the ball up, particularly against pressure defense after an opponent's made basket. In transition opportunities, nothing would change except now you'd have Luka AND Rubio (or Beverly, or Shroeder) as outlet options. In the half-court, Luka would still run the show, only you'd get him the ball once the play starts, like off of that Iverson cut they run about 50% of the time, for example.
Basically, what if they want to use Luka more like Terry, and less like Kidd? Terry was really the PG in the half court, if we're being honest. But, Kidd made it possible to get him the ball in places where he could do damage without having to dribble behind his back three times to start the play.
I can actually see a case for starting PG being something they want. Not ME, but THEM.
(11-11-2020, 01:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I still have an easier time seeing a world in which Dallas is lusting after Rubio than the one where LAC wants him, tbtach.
I know LAC needs a PG, but I'm telling you guys now: DON'T WRITE THAT OFF. Dallas goes out of their way about once a year to let us know how much they like Rubio's game.
(11-11-2020, 01:00 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see much value at all in Beverley on his own - terrible human being, on the downside of his career, health problems, etc. That said, he probably gets some minutes at the back end of the rotation. I would consider him a barely positive acquisition for the Mavs.
You do remember that Dallas wanted to sign Beverly last off-season, right?
He'd start here, and would be one of the "dogs" they've been telling us they think they need to get.
Oy, vey. It's a year later, and Bev is, and is seen as, much less of a player than he was last year. I can see your point, and the possibility, but I'm incapable of it without throwing up in my mouth a little.
The thing with him, Marcus, and PG on Dame Lillard is so completely despicable on its own.
I'm with you, @"Scott41theMavs"...I think the guy is a mental midget.
I'd route my balls off for him if was a Mav though.
(11-11-2020, 01:02 PM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]maybe there is a reason no one mentions Mavs (other than that Knocks fan page) and we aren't part of that deal.
Nope. You're off and behind the curve on this. That doesn't mean that the Mavs will end up involved, but they are for right now.
I still think we don't hear a resolution on this for several days. I doubt that the league would make themselves available to confirm the legality of a deal before the transaction window opens.
My biggest fear here might be that, if it ends up being a contingent deal, the Mavs end up with nothing. On the other hand, maybe that means they have to pick at 18, which is what I want them to do anyway (or pick anywhere 18 or upwards).
(11-11-2020, 11:31 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Is there any substance to the Mavs involvement or are you all just making this up as you go along with the Suns/OKC rumour?
Honest question. 
As far as I can tell it was another random "source" online claiming it to be somewhere...
This is why I hate just posting anyone that claims to have knowledge of anything. IT gets confusing as heck when you have 3 or 4 page conversations about a rumor stated as fact.
Edit: This one doesn't seem as bad because there is an actual name behind it for a guy "covering" the Knicks. Does some podcast stuff. But stein follows him.
Hard to see how a guy covering the Knicks gets any sort of legit news on a trade that doesn't involve the Knicks at all.
(11-11-2020, 01:47 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]This is why I hate just posting anyone that claims to have knowledge of anything. IT gets confusing as heck when you have 3 or 4 page conversations about a rumor stated as fact.
Everything up to Woj/Shams/Stein tweet it as a fact is a rumor and speculation. The 166 pages of this thread are about rumors and speculations.
(11-11-2020, 01:47 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 11:31 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Is there any substance to the Mavs involvement or are you all just making this up as you go along with the Suns/OKC rumour?
Honest question.
As far as I can tell it was another random "source" online claiming it to be somewhere...
This is why I hate just posting anyone that claims to have knowledge of anything. IT gets confusing as heck when you have 3 or 4 page conversations about a rumor stated as fact.
The thing is Knicks Film School is a fairly legit source for this stuff. I mean, it's not Woj, Stein, etc. That's for sure. But it's easily as credible as Fish, Mavs Money Ball, etc. It's one of the NY equivalents of those sources. Way, WAY more credible than All Things Mavs, for example.
If your overall point is that it could be BS, then sure. But you can say that about almost every rumor out there.
(11-11-2020, 12:47 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Would you trade DFS/Wright/Powell/18 for Oubre/Beverley?
Sounds like #10 isn't in play.
I think I say no to that trade and roll the dice with DFS/18 and see if Powell can regain his form. I think everyone is way too eager to write Powell off.