(11-22-2020, 12:45 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Trey Burke averaged more assists and less turnovers per game with the Mavs than Brunson (small sample alert).
I think of backup pg as a fairly important position, and I don't think Trey is one
(11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
Including Brunson would leave us without a backup pg
JJB/Burke/Terry
Upgrading THJ should be our goal even if that includes Brunson. Both of those guys could walk next year and I'm really not interested in resigning them, especially THJ. TDL should be the goal.
(11-22-2020, 12:58 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]For me it's all about asset management/acquisition until you get something that acquires you another star. That's either picks, players, cap space or a combo of all them.
I've compared it to a high stakes game of Bigger or Better if you ever played that in your younger days at a camp or if you've ever done it in team building excercises with co workers.
So far from last summers start when we gained pretty sizable flexibility we started with 0 assets in the next 3 years except Brunson our 2020 1st, GS 2nd and our 2nds. (We actually had some more 2nds we sent for Delon but not anything worth mentioning).
We took cap space and got Curry, DFS, Kleber, and Wright signed in FA. (Powell was still under contract so ignoring him)
We flipped Curry into Richardson who as a 2 way player and expiring is much more valuable, a high 2nd
Wright was flipped into a pretty large expiring and a decent bench guy. That expiring is worth something IMO.
And thru development DFS and Kleber have gotten better so that's a better asset too.
We literally started from 0 since all of our assets were exhausted from KP. So it's a slow process just like Bigger or Better to get to the winning item and win the prize.
Yes, sir. BRAVO!
And, while I know we as Dallas fans only know the life of kamikaze piloting ourselves from one drunken, ill-advised, big money trade to the next, I'm convinced that a key part of the process you're describing above is the ABSENCE of roster CRAP, or as close to none of it as you can get.
Somewhere along the line for Mavs fans, "flexibility" became a word used to describe "failure," and so the emotions involved with those words are now linked for many. The post championship Mavs were in total denial. Everything they tried for like 8-9 years was moronic as hell. Think of that as Donnie going to GM grad school, if you want, but regardless, THIS situation is different. You'd almost have to TRY to mess this up.
Have we not noticed how the national guys are paying attention to everything the Mavs are doing this time, even in a year when they don't have cap space? Relevance is on the rise. This is all working, and we should all just enjoy the ride, imo.
(11-22-2020, 01:04 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:45 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Trey Burke averaged more assists and less turnovers per game with the Mavs than Brunson (small sample alert).
I think of backup pg as a fairly important position, and I don't think Trey is one
You dont think Trey Burke is a backup PG? What am I missing here?
Hollinger has him rated higher than Reggie Jackson, DJ Augustin, and Jevon Carter among his available PG free agents.
(11-22-2020, 12:53 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I love Burke as a 6th man/scorer type. I'm honestly not sure if he can really play PG. My gut tells me that if he could, he would have found a niche in the league by now. I don't really have a strong opinion, though. We'll probably find out this year, because I bet he plays more this time around.
We're not talking about a lot of time in the game where Luka is sitting. I mean, he could possibly reach 38-40 mpg this season if he gets some time off randomly while still being in the game.
Ok now I'm confused why everyone thinks Jalen Brunson is a good backup PG and Trey Burke is not a PG at all. They have almost identical assist and turnovers numbers. Per 36 minutes last two seasons.
JB 5.8 assists 2.1 turnovers
Burke 5.4 assists 1.6 turnovers
Lots think it’s Burke as more of a SG. Much like JET could play PG but wasn’t really.
Also WTF did Brunson do to some of y’all? No he’s not untradable or a guy we can’t upgrade from...but some of you are flat out agains him even being on the team at all.
Would even care to resign him? Why? He’s a legit capable back up PG in a high IQ system. Lots of teams would be glad to have him, and so should we.
I don’t think he should be a “throw in” in a trade like I’ve seen in here. If we lose him it better be for an actual upgrade and not like the Delon/Jackson “just get rid of them” way.
(11-22-2020, 01:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]We're not talking about a lot of time in the game where Luka is sitting. I mean, he could possibly reach 38-40 mpg this season if he gets some time off randomly while still being in the game.
Oh, for sure. It's an assumption on my part, but based on how he flourished in his playoff role, the fact that they brought him back on a three year deal, and the need for more playmaking in general, I kind of expect him to play Seth minutes, not backup PG minutes.
I think Terry is behind Burke, Green is behind Richardson, Mace Windu is behind DFS and Tyler Bey is behind Johnson, all four of them learning how they're supposed to play here. I see METHOD. PLANNING. One of any of those pairings is expendable at any point as a trade asset. Built in redundancies. Losing DFS in a trade won't scare us as much if we've seen that Mace Windu can play. Etc, etc, etc.
Then again, maybe Burke will just be a deep bench guard. The above is just my early take on it all.
(11-22-2020, 01:07 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:58 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]-
Yes, sir. BRAVO!
And, while I know we as Dallas fans only know the life of kamikaze piloting ourselves from one drunken, ill-advised, big money trade to the next, I'm convinced that a key part of the process you're describing above is the ABSENCE of roster CRAP, or as close to none of it as you can get.
Somewhere along the line for Mavs fans, "flexibility" became a word used to describe "failure," and so the emotions involved with those words are now linked for many. The post championship Mavs were in total denial. Everything they tried for like 8-9 years was moronic as hell. Think of that as Donnie going to GM grad school, if you want, but regardless, THIS situation is different. You'd almost have to TRY to mess this up.
Have we not noticed how the national guys are paying attention to everything the Mavs are doing this time, even in a year when they don't have cap space? Relevance is on the rise. This is all working, and we should all just enjoy the ride, imo.
For the record... I think I've decided to call it Plan BOB (Bigger or Better) lol.
Yeah and in the game of BOB you sometimes make a trade that's actually not as good as what you had but then it leads to something even better.
I think that move so far could be Wright. It was a move that actually seemed like step back. But it allowed us to trade for James Johnson and his fairly large expiring deal. That's really about the same value of 9 mill of cap if you had kept that instead of signing Wright. That piece may turn into something better. I'd actually go as far to say that I'll be shocked to see J Johnson on the team past the deadline. But I also thought Lee would be gone too. But to also be fair... They were so close to almost turning him into Danny Green. You can't always close the trades when playing BOB.
(11-22-2020, 01:11 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok now I'm confused why everyone thinks Jalen Brunson is a good backup PG and Trey Burke is not a PG at all. They have almost identical assist and turnovers numbers.
I said I'm not sure. I just want to see him run the team for 20 games, and I've never seen that. I HAVE seen him do his best Lou Williams impression, and I LOVE him in that role.
(11-22-2020, 01:00 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Dlord drinking tonight?
https://twitter.com/David_Lord_2020/stat...0331963392
Buuuttt... I wonder if that situation is why the Mavs have decided not to completely bail on max cap space. He would be an ideal fit as the 3rd star.
I’ve been thinking PG to mavs ever since the locker room issues emerged. LAC will need a culture change and look who now has the ideal contracts for a trade
(11-22-2020, 01:11 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok now I'm confused why everyone thinks Jalen Brunson is a good backup PG and Trey Burke is not a PG at all. They have almost identical assist and turnovers numbers.
And I’m confused as to why so many think he’s a bum and easily replaceable.
in Ricks system to boot.
the difference between them is Burke is more of spark plug so far off the bench. Not sure he can actually run the offense of Luka has to miss games. At least not yet.
we also are looking at a few games in the bubble and forget we actually cut the dude mid season because he wasn’t bringing anything.
Meanwhile all Brunson did wrong was being forced into the starting lineup(out of his comfort zone as a backup PG in his 2nd year)for a significant amount of time, struggle a bit, and then get hurt.
(11-22-2020, 01:16 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 01:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]We're not talking about a lot of time in the game where Luka is sitting. I mean, he could possibly reach 38-40 mpg this season if he gets some time off randomly while still being in the game.
Oh, for sure. It's an assumption on my part, but based on how he flourished in his playoff role, the fact that they brought him back on a three year deal, and the need for more playmaking in general, I kind of expect him to play Seth minutes, not backup PG minutes.
I think Terry is behind Burke, Green is behind Richardson, Mace Windu is behind DFS and Tyler Bey is behind Johnson, all four of them learning how they're supposed to play here. I see METHOD. PLANNING. One of any of those pairings is expendable at any point as a trade asset. Built in redundancies. Losing DFS in a trade won't scare us as much if we've seen that Mace Windu can play. Etc, etc, etc.
Then again, maybe Burke will just be a deep bench guard. The above is just my early take on it all.
This is all in the hypothetical that we get a clear-cut upgrade in 1 player for THJ/Brunson. If that is the case, I'll take my chances on Burke being good enough to play a few minutes (with JRich as another ball handling playmaker in the game) while Luka sits. That's also saying that the return isn't another ball handling playmaker themselves.
(11-22-2020, 01:19 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve been thinking PG to mavs ever since the locker room issues emerged. LAC will need a culture change and look who now has the ideal contracts for a trade
Well, bonafide insider NBASupes has been saying he's available for a while now (lol, sorry @"cjeter24", couldn't resist trolling you)...but seriously, that's a great example. Would ANYONE here be shocked if he got moved at the deadline, or was available next summer?
And there will be others. There are always unforeseen opportunities that pop up in this league.
(11-22-2020, 01:17 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 01:11 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Ok now I'm confused why everyone thinks Jalen Brunson is a good backup PG and Trey Burke is not a PG at all. They have almost identical assist and turnovers numbers.
I said I'm not sure. I just want to see him run the team for 20 games, and I've never seen that. I HAVE seen him do his best Lou Williams impression, and I LOVE him in that role.
The thing is with PG's and any position there are different types. Chris Paul is a fantastic PG and so is Steph. Completely different players. They both run the offense and both get assists. (perhaps you could use a better pg than Steph that gets more assists)
Steph is going to draw in the defense with his offense and then make the pass.
Paul is going to maneuver the defense and create the openings with his passing and savvy.
Generally your pg's fall into one of these 2 roles. Luka arguably is equally good at both ha. We are stupid lucky.
No exception for Brunson and Burke here. They both have their uses and depending on your roster construction really determines what you need more of in a backup guard.
We definitely know that Burke can handle and pass well enough to play the position. We also know that he's a three level scorer, and that certainly helps. That's where his assists come from. But, what I don't think is yet clear is whether he can read the entire floor in such a way as to determine where his team's advantage is...I don't know if he can judge situations on behalf of the TEAM, and not just to determine whether he, himself, has an advantage.
He might be able to do that like a champ, but if so, I just wonder why he's gone into his late 20's without catching on with some team.
(11-22-2020, 01:16 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I kind of expect him to play Seth minutes, not backup PG minutes.
In the situation we're talking about, I don't see why he can't do both.
(11-22-2020, 01:24 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 01:19 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I’ve been thinking PG to mavs ever since the locker room issues emerged. LAC will need a culture change and look who now has the ideal contracts for a trade
Well, bonafide insider NBASupes has been saying he's available for a while now (lol, sorry @"cjeter24", couldn't resist trolling you)...but seriously, that's a great example. Would ANYONE here be shocked if he got moved at the deadline, or was available next summer?
And there will be others. There are always unforeseen opportunities that pop up in this league.
And thus the argument for team flexibility.
My biggest argument for Bogdon is that if a guy like George pops up now we don't have a good centerpiece for very good player plus assets to make a deal. I strongly believe Bogdon's #s take a nice jump up here with the talent around him, plus a system that caters to guards that can shoot and run the PNR/general playmaking skills.
If we were to sign Bogdan I'd be willing to bet he's scoring 20ppg efficiently the first 2months of the year. I'm that confident in the offensive fit. Now imagine flipping that into George or someone else with the other assets we have.
(11-22-2020, 01:34 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 01:16 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I kind of expect him to play Seth minutes, not backup PG minutes.
In the situation we're talking about, I don't see why he can't do both.
Well, define "can't"...we'd have to ask Carlisle, and my guess is that it would depend on the answer to my post above.
(11-22-2020, 01:35 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]And thus the argument for team flexibility.
My biggest argument for Bogdon is that if a guy like George pops up now we don't have a good centerpiece for very good player plus assets to make a deal. I strongly believe Bogdon's #s take a nice jump up here with the talent around him, plus a system that caters to guards that can shoot and run the PNR/general playmaking skills.
If we were to sign Bogdan I'd be willing to bet he's scoring 20ppg efficiently the first 2months of the year. I'm that confident in the offensive fit. Now imagine flipping that into George or someone else with the other assets we have.
Hey man, you might be 100% right about all of that. I choose not to get bent out of shape about situations like that because we aren't in position to know A) whether the Mavs would even want him in any type of plan or B) whether he wants to play here.
I said this in another conversation, but for all we know, he's trying to BE a team's Luka. (primary ball-handler, not necessarily superstar) There's just no way for us to know.
(11-22-2020, 01:30 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]We definitely know that Burke can handle and pass well enough to play the position. We also know that he's a three level scorer, and that certainly helps. That's where his assists come from. But, what I don't think is yet clear is whether he can read the entire floor in such a way as to determine where his team's advantage is...I don't know if he can judge situations on behalf of the TEAM, and not just to determine whether he, himself, has an advantage.
He might be able to do that like a champ, but if so, I just wonder why he's gone into his late 20's without catching on with some team.
I don't think he can. And I know Brunson can. There's a role for each here.
I'm still not convinced that Brunson doesn't turn into a Kyle Lowry type player and become a long term starter next to Luka and actually take some of that PG duties away from Luka. I actually wonder if the Mavs don't think something similar.
Lowry and Brunson are the same body build. Brunson actually has better stats than Lowry's first 2 years. He's actually well ahead of him on the shooting front.
Brunson putting up something like 15 and 7, Luka, defensive wing, ?, KP.
And Luka would stagger with Burke, Terry or whoever your scoring guard off the bench is. Luka + Burke was a nasty offensive punch in the bubble at times.