(10-27-2020, 06:39 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm almost always surprised by the numbers some players get. I wonder if over-pays will continue in this environment or if teams will reign it in a little given all the uncertainty.
In a general way, this concept is interesting to me. I've noticed that people here tend to judge contracts by their preconceived opinion of the player who signs them. I tend to rethink my assessment of players as information comes in about how the professionals in the basketball industry value them. There is probably some truth on either side of that coin.
In Gallo's case, I'd say he's a lock to get more than the MLE, as he can shoot. Wings and bigs who can shoot at a level that forces the other team to respect your offensive spacing seem to be the most valuable thing going in the NBA right now. I don't even want to THINK about what Kleber would get if he were free right now. Not Gallo money, but a TON more than we might imagine.
(10-26-2020, 05:13 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I think that any plan involving 2021 capspace is a huge gamble as long as we don´t know how the coming month and the loss in revenue impacts the salary cap. Just don´t think that any team is willing to go all out on 2021 as long they don´t know about the salary cap numbers. Imagine the Mavs creating a max slot using the current predictions only to be told that next year the salary cap will prevent them from using it.
All the more reason why they will be shedding Wright's money and not adding any 2021 money. They will have to be in striking distance in 2021. Remember if the cap goes down the max slot also decreases.
(10-27-2020, 07:33 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2020, 06:39 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm almost always surprised by the numbers some players get. I wonder if over-pays will continue in this environment or if teams will reign it in a little given all the uncertainty.
In Gallo's case, I'd say he's a lock to get more than the MLE, as he can shoot. Wings and bigs who can shoot at a level that forces the other team to respect your offensive spacing seem to be the most valuable thing going in the NBA right now. I don't even want to THINK about what Kleber would get if he were free right now. Not Gallo money, but a TON more than we might imagine.
Which is part of why putting Maxi in the deal instead of Wright and pick(s) makes sense for both sides. Gallo is an upgrade for Dallas (he was ranked about 70 slots higher than Maxi in the recent 1-125 rankings at The Athletic) and helps move some 2021 money. Maxi can play either big position for OKC and is on a reasonable contract.
What I wonder about Gallo being a lock is whether he's a lock at multiple years or not. Winning is cool and all, but $48mm is a whole lot better than $16mm. He already turned down Miami's efforts to add a single year. Why would he suddenly agree to that for Dallas?
Also isn't Gallo a zero on defense? We need someone who plays defense.
(10-27-2020, 08:24 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Which is part of why putting Maxi in the deal instead of Wright and pick(s) makes sense for both sides. Gallo is an upgrade for Dallas (he was ranked about 70 slots higher than Maxi in the recent 1-125 rankings at The Athletic) and helps move some 2021 money. Maxi can play either big position for OKC and is on a reasonable contract.
I am not giving up Maxi for a Gallo rental. Gallo isn't even really a fit and they are different players. Maxi is a great glue guy, I am not giving him up for a deal like that. I really don't think Mavs are going to be subtracting players this year (THJ, Maxi, Curry, Brunson). They are going to be adding a guy with 18.
(10-27-2020, 08:53 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Also isn't Gallo a zero on defense? We need someone who plays defense.
(10-27-2020, 08:24 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Which is part of why putting Maxi in the deal instead of Wright and pick(s) makes sense for both sides. Gallo is an upgrade for Dallas (he was ranked about 70 slots higher than Maxi in the recent 1-125 rankings at The Athletic) and helps move some 2021 money. Maxi can play either big position for OKC and is on a reasonable contract.
I am not giving up Maxi for a Gallo rental. Gallo isn't even really a fit and they are different players. Maxi is a great glue guy, I am not giving him up for a deal like that. I really don't think Mavs are going to be subtracting players this year (THJ, Maxi, Curry, Brunson). They are going to be adding a guy with 18.
I realize that it feels like I’m constantly trading Maxi. But it is because I think other teams probably value him more than some of the other things we on this board want to trade. What is Maxi’s role once Giannis shows up? Does he get moved in a S&T for GA or in a separate deal to create room? If the answer to either of those is yes, why are we so concerned about keeping him for 20/21?
As to what we need, the answer is better players. Gallo has been very much a plus player despite his defensive limitations anywhere he’s been. If you can get him for a very good role player, you do it.
(10-27-2020, 06:39 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Mike L. is right about the timing issue. While I can see lots of things being agreed to well in advance of free agency opening, FA's are "free" to change their mind. So, unless Dallas was willing to keep the player(s) drafted on OKC's behalf, they are taking on some risk. What happens if you draft someone for OKC and Gallo changes his mind? Cue the video of Cuban frantically trying to find DeAndre Jordan's house in Houston.
Sure. In most years the timing of the pick would probably make it a non-starter. But if there's one year it may make sense, it's now. With a super-fast restart on the table, they're talking about the draft and FA happening virtually simultaneously. But you're correct that everyone has to be on the same page.
In any case, I personally think Gallo ends up making more than the MLE next year. Someone will find a way to make it work. It might as well be Dallas.
BTW, I'm also not totally opposed to the idea of trading Maxi. I like Maxi a lot, but I do think Gallo is the better player. I just don't like the idea of giving up a good player on an affordable contract for a rental. Now if you told me that they could trade Maxi and Wright for Gallo in a salary-neutral deal, lock up Gallo long-term, and still be confident they can create max space if necessary (by trading Curry, for example), then you've got my attention.
(10-27-2020, 10:25 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2020, 08:53 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Also isn't Gallo a zero on defense? We need someone who plays defense.
(10-27-2020, 08:24 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Which is part of why putting Maxi in the deal instead of Wright and pick(s) makes sense for both sides. Gallo is an upgrade for Dallas (he was ranked about 70 slots higher than Maxi in the recent 1-125 rankings at The Athletic) and helps move some 2021 money. Maxi can play either big position for OKC and is on a reasonable contract.
I am not giving up Maxi for a Gallo rental. Gallo isn't even really a fit and they are different players. Maxi is a great glue guy, I am not giving him up for a deal like that. I really don't think Mavs are going to be subtracting players this year (THJ, Maxi, Curry, Brunson). They are going to be adding a guy with 18.
I realize that it feels like I’m constantly trading Maxi. But it is because I think other teams probably value him more than some of the other things we on this board want to trade. What is Maxi’s role once Giannis shows up? Does he get moved in a S&T for GA or in a separate deal to create room? If the answer to either of those is yes, why are we so concerned about keeping him for 20/21?
As to what we need, the answer is better players. Gallo has been very much a plus player despite his defensive limitations anywhere he’s been. If you can get him for a very good role player, you do it.
I wouldn't. Gallo is another offense-only guy that would be a 1 yr rental. Ideally we dump Wright for 18 and get someone back in return who is on paper a rental but also a guy that the Mavs would have some interest in resigning. I don't know that there is a long list of guys that would fit that criteria but there are probably a few. If I am trading Maxi its to get an upgrade, certainly one that extends past this year. Maxi is on a great value contract and fits a role on this team. Trading him for an expiring makes no sense.
I am ab 95%-ish convinced Mavs will not be subtracting their key guys this year with THJ being the only guy that could be moved for a really good deal. I expect Curry, DFS, Maxi, Brunson to be on this team next year.
(10-27-2020, 12:29 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]If I am trading Maxi its to get an upgrade, certainly one that extends past this year. Maxi is on a great value contract and fits a role on this team. Trading him for an expiring makes no sense.
I am ab 95%-ish convinced Mavs will not be subtracting their key guys this year with THJ being the only guy that could be moved for a really good deal. I expect Curry, DFS, Maxi, Brunson to be on this team next year.
So, as I know you are aware, if the Mavs decide to take on money past this year, that means they view whatever player that money is attached to as a really significant piece, good enough to change direction.
You're the one who claims Powell is un-tradeable. If you're right about that, then even in the CURRENT direction, Kleber, Curry or DFS (maybe two of them, depending on what happens this off season) will have to be moved to create space. Granted, this doesn't need to happen until next summer, but if they can find a player who they view as an upgrade, I don't anticipate them viewing the idea of that player being on a one-year deal as a negative. You could argue that Kleber on a value deal is better in a potential trade for the target than Gallo on an expiring contract, I suppose, but I don't think the Mavs are anywhere close to being able to make a deal for Giannis the way LA did for Anthony Davis. So, it doesn't matter.
Like Dan says, if the plan doesn't call for Kleber being on the books, anyway, and they can get a better player (in the meantime), why not?
Not that I think they're TRYING to trade Kleber, and I doubt Gallo would sign a contract for any amount right now that only guarantees one year of salary. Three years of MLE are better than one year of anything the Mavs could pay on a deal like that. We KNOW he'll at least get that.
I agree with your general sense that the Mavs are hoping to turn Wright/#18 into a player to ADD to the playoff team they already have, but I also think that when you're a BUYER, you have to consider what the SELLER is asking as a price. There are probably teams who want #18, and there are probably others who'd prefer 27 year old players who can help right away.
Since we are talking Kleber for Gallinari why don't we just go a head and trade Porzingis for Gobert - Hardaway for Oladipo and Curry for Redick. All upgrades according to The Athletics top 125 list.
(10-27-2020, 01:27 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ]Since we are talking Kleber for Gallinari why don't we just go a head and trade Porzingis for Gobert - Hardaway for Oladipo and Curry for Redick. All upgrades according to The Athletics top 125 list.
Lol, touché.
In all seriousness though, I do think continuity is über important, especially in a condensed season after a lightning fast turnaround. I can see them trading ONE of their value players (though I don't think that's their goal) but I don't expect a total makeover.
(10-27-2020, 01:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Not that I think they're TRYING to trade Kleber, and I doubt Gallo would sign a contract for any amount right now that only guarantees one year of salary. Three years of MLE are better than one year of anything the Mavs could pay on a deal like that. We KNOW he'll at least get that.
I agree with your general sense that the Mavs are hoping to turn Wright/#18 into a player to ADD to the playoff team they already have, but I also think that when you're a BUYER, you have to consider what the SELLER is asking as a price. There are probably teams who want #18, and there are probably others who'd prefer 27 year old players who can help right away.
I don't get why we want Gallo at all honestly and I don't see him signing for a 1 yr deal anyway. And ya he's a good offensive player but then we lose a cheap player in Maxi on a great contract. I see this type of trade occurring around zero percent. Mavs will gamble with picks but they aren't going to gamble away the likes of Curry or Maxi. If Mavs ditch Wright for nothing they are close enough to a max slot that I don't see any reason why they would preemptively give away one of those guys for a 1 yr rental that isn't really a fit on our team anyway.
(10-27-2020, 01:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with your general sense that the Mavs are hoping to turn Wright/#18 into a player to ADD to the playoff team they already have, but I also think that when you're a BUYER, you have to consider what the SELLER is asking as a price. There are probably teams who want #18, and there are probably others who'd prefer 27 year old players who can help right away.
This is likely what's going to happen and there's enough teams that will give the Mavs an upgrade for 18/Wright without Mavs giving away a key rotation piece. Mavs want to dump Wright and add talent that can contribute today. In 2021 they want to add their 3rd star. That is pretty much the plan. I like fake trades as much as anybody but I see very little chance of Mavs trading away any rotation guys this offseason.
Lol. @"StepBackJay" I don't know why you keep restating the same thing to me. I might be the only person in this community who agrees with you. I've been beating the 2021 drum for years, possibly even dating back to the old forum (can't remember when the switch happened).
That doesn't mean that the Mavs aren't considering other options. If they're going into the off-season dead set on ANY path, then they are morons. I love Kleber, and I certainly wouldn't give him away, but he's GONE if they find a deal that actually merits his inclusion.
https://twitter.com/coopmavs/status/1321...43842?s=20
Does anyone here have access to this and the willingness to summarize? Is there really a quote that claims they're willing to trade into the lottery?
@"KillerLeft" the Maxi part is new. Say no to Maxi!
(10-27-2020, 06:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone here have access to this and the willingness to summarize? Is there really a quote that claims they're willing to trade into the lottery?
It is really short. Just source that says the Mavs are willing to trade up in this draft into the lottery, but the source did not clarify how FAR up in the lottery. To just 14? to 10? to 7? Source did not say.
(10-27-2020, 06:42 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2020, 06:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone here have access to this and the willingness to summarize? Is there really a quote that claims they're willing to trade into the lottery?
It is really short. Just source that says the Mavs are willing to trade up in this draft into the lottery, but the source did not clarify how FAR up in the lottery. To just 14? to 10? to 7? Source did not say.
Trading up at all is a real surprise to me.
(10-27-2020, 06:42 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (10-27-2020, 06:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Does anyone here have access to this and the willingness to summarize? Is there really a quote that claims they're willing to trade into the lottery?
It is really short. Just source that says the Mavs are willing to trade up in this draft into the lottery, but the source did not clarify how FAR up in the lottery. To just 14? to 10? to 7? Source did not say.
In addition to the line about the lottery (we realize that is only 4 spots up from where we are). He basically says we are all in on improving this season (even at the cost of cap room in 2021). We want a third star. Everyone not named KP or Luka is on the table. We are willing to eat some salary to make things happen.
We are in "Urgency Mode" with a desire to strike now with as much force and expense as necessary and Donnie is letting everyone know. Not much on names, though they do bring up Gallinari (and say we tried for Tobias Harris last summer when Kemba failed).
I don't believe in this trading up business. #31 isn't going to get you up that much higher, you would need to trade a player and there's no guarantee that drafted player is better than everything you gave up to get them. I don't buy it.
Do they think of Gallinari and Harris as stars? Interesting.
![[Image: 9a99ac2d8e0598404cf1dc1591512b53.jpg]](https://i.ibb.co/KKj7dsW/9a99ac2d8e0598404cf1dc1591512b53.jpg)