not all "Mavs are linked to" originate with the Mavs, and not all messaging from the Mavs is for the purpose of transparency
(11-22-2020, 12:09 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:04 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Curious if we had another S&T target after Gallo.
That's the part that is confusing to me. We were willing to forego plan powder to lock up Gallo?
But now it's back to being about plan powder? and toughness and defense.
Or were the Gallo reports erroneous?
I think we’re just being opportunistic. Yes, the offseason goal is defense and toughness, but look at what seth curry bought. Any player we can get on a good deal is valuable. Gallo became too expensive so we moved on. Same will happen with Bogi i believe
I think there's a number ($12-18 million?) that they are prepared to work around next summer, and they had a few targets in mind they deemed worth it. I'm no cap expert, but I've seen notes about this written in a few places.
Maybe @"DanSchwartzman" can chime in about that.
Anyway, even if that's the case, it's only smart to use that money if there's a player you actually want, and believe can make you better.
IMO, NOW is the time that I think THJ is useful to stay with us and gamble that last year wasn't a fluke. This is the moment where we filled the cupboard with defenders that can make up for the deficiency on that side THJ (and the need to be in with Luka) creates. I don't like the thought of starting Luka Rich and THJ as your perimeter patrollers to start the game, but there are some good options to switch him out with a defender in the closing seconds of a game where defense is necessary to make a stop.
I'm loosening my position on wanting to trade him out to "sell high". I think I now only want to sell high on him if we are returning the clear-cut best player in the trade (who can score and play defense). My position before was that we needed to get a return that brought back his value but had more of a leaning towards defense.
All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
I think Dan's HIBW plan is what the Mavs are trying to do.
I've advocated and pointed out that if you traded 3 of Powell, Kleber, Seth and Wright you'd have enough for a Giannis level max plus slightly north of 20 mill to spend in salary for additional players not on the books as of the start of the offseason. We have 2 of those guys gone with expirings or likely expiring back and Kleber so easy to move that it's done. This was the assumption of a flat cap next year which it sounds like actually won't be the case.
So Mavs could easily fit Gallo at 20 mill or so into their Giannis plans. They could still fit another player in that sliver.
Additionally if no Giannis and assuming no Kawhi or any sort of surprise player like that really being on the market, then you wouldn't even need a full max next year so it gives you even more salary to be able to fill.
So look at what we know thus far.
We were in on Crowder and Gallo additional years or not.
The only deals that we could have done because of our lack of cap space: Ibaka, Trez, Thompson, Favors, DJJ, Ja. Green, Plumlee. I left out all these small deals for meh or crappy players. obviously anything under MLE we could have done. But none of the bigger names at a position of need.
So basically a one year rental of mostly mediocre bigs.
For every other deal we are at the mercy of another team's willingness to work with us via SNT.
We do have all the expiring contracts anyone could want tho as we made the move for more of them. Those are small assets in themselves. We had a great draft. Overall we've take a nice little leap in our asset pool. We also have gotten better with the moves.
At this point yeah it stinks nothing else bigger yet... But we didn't have much flexibility but we've still improved and have a bit more now.
We may make a trade sometime in the next few days. But I think the real possibilities are opening up during the season when we take up to like 80 mill in salary back with all of our expiring contracts.
(11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
Including Brunson would leave us without a backup pg
(11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, NOW is the time that I think THJ is useful to stay with us and gamble that last year wasn't a fluke. This is the moment where we filled the cupboard with defenders that can make up for the deficiency on that side THJ (and the need to be in with Luka) creates. I don't like the thought of starting Luka Rich and THJ as your perimeter patrollers to start the game, but there are some good options to switch him out with a defender in the closing seconds of a game where defense is necessary to make a stop.
I'm loosening my position on wanting to trade him out to "sell high". I think I now only want to sell high on him if we are returning the clear-cut best player in the trade (who can score and play defense). My position before was that we needed to get a return that brought back his value but had more of a leaning towards defense.
All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
Luckily we’re in a good spot where we can make certain decisions once we see everyone play together. Expiring contracts we have allow us flexibility at the deadline. We are in good shape regardless
(11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
It ABSOLUTELY could. Lots and lots of teams really need shooting. The problem is, you move Curry AND THJ AND KP is injured, the Mavericks could be among them in the blink of an eye, and there goes all that real estate Luka enjoys.
Count me among those who think THJ's defense, while certainly not a strength, is not the huge issue it's made out to be, and might not even be that bad in a situation where the rest of the team defends better. Ditto for Luka, and I feel like HE'S even going to improve some on that end.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comme...?ref=share&ref_source=link
Another Magic fan that really likes Wes.
I've been looking for negative things from Magic fans and they actually all think pretty highly of him except for shooting. Of course they've only known mediocrity... Poor Magic fans
(11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Dan's HIBW plan is what the Mavs are trying to do.
OF COURSE!
FYI, anytime I've advocated the 2021 plan, I've done so with the above in mind, fully ready to break off and commit to something awesome if/when the time comes.
It's not all about Giannis.
But honestly, HIBW is just a cap space plan, only the smart way to do it. Have a good team first, then maintain flexibility while improving the team. The exciting young players + playoff status + a little playoff success (hopefully) = PLAYERS WANT TO JOIN. On your way to creating that scene, you have the flexibility to ditch it for another Porzingis trade anytime another Porzingis situation comes up. Worst case scenario, you re-sign the guys you like and start an over the cap approach, only with players YOU signed to contracts YOU think they're worth. It's such a better situation than the Dirk years, which, in hindsight, make me think Don Nelson was hammered 24/7.
Honestly, if everyone would just let Fish's stupid "plan powder" phrase go, people could get over the triggering that causes and start thinking instead of reacting. I believe that it's very clear they're on a good path, and while we obviously can't predict the outcome, at least they're not beating themselves.
also on the mavs reddit someone pointed out that Noel has 9 mill of total salary since turning down the Mavs extension. That's freaking hilarious.
(11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
Including Brunson would leave us without a backup pg
Trey Burke averaged more assists and less turnovers per game with the Mavs than Brunson (small sample alert).
(11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
Including Brunson would leave us without a backup pg
Trey Burke is here, potentially Terry too depending on how he does in Summer League
(11-22-2020, 12:44 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]also on the mavs reddit someone pointed out that Noel has 9 mill of total salary since turning down the Mavs extension. That's freaking hilarious.
Wow! What a moron.
(11-22-2020, 12:46 AM)farhan583 Wrote: [ -> ]Terry too depending on how he does in Summer League
No summer league, my guy. The season starts in like a month.
(11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
Including Brunson would leave us without a backup pg
I think Burke/JJB can fill in there if we don't return something in the package. We're talking about a total of 12-14 mpg with no Luka in. That number might go down even if JRich is the secondary ballhandler he's being made out to be. That rests Luka while being in the game!
I love Burke as a 6th man/scorer type. I'm honestly not sure if he can really play PG. My gut tells me that if he could, he would have found a niche in the league by now. I don't really have a strong opinion, though. We'll probably find out this year, because I bet he plays more this time around.
(11-22-2020, 12:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Dan's HIBW plan is what the Mavs are trying to do.
OF COURSE!
FYI, anytime I've advocated the 2021 plan, I've done so with the above in mind, fully ready to break off and commit to something awesome if/when the time comes.
It's not all about Giannis.
But honestly, HIBW is just a cap space plan, only the smart way to do it. Have a good team first, then maintain flexibility while improving the team. The exciting young players + playoff status + a little playoff success (hopefully) = PLAYERS WANT TO JOIN. On your way to creating that scene, you have the flexibility to ditch it for another Porzingis trade anytime another Porzingis situation comes up. Worst case scenario, you re-sign the guys you like and start an over the cap approach, only with players YOU signed to contracts YOU think they're worth. It's such a better situation than the Dirk years, which, in hindsight, make me think Don Nelson was hammered 24/7.
Honestly, if everyone would just let Fish's stupid "plan powder" phrase go, people could get over the triggering that causes and start thinking instead of reacting. I believe that it's very obvious that they're on a good path, and while we obviously can't predict the outcome, at least they're not beating themselves.
I think we need to come up with a new name other than HIBW or Plan powder.
But to me it's the Anti-AD Pelicans plan. they rushed to throw a contender around their star multiple times and never went anywhere because they couldn't get anything to fit right.
I honestly am not that worried about cap space since the Butler trade last year. If someone wants there and they are a free agent... Most teams are willing to work with them in the end.
For me it's all about asset management/acquisition until you get something that acquires you another star. That's either picks, players, cap space or a combo of all them.
I've compared it to a high stakes game of Bigger or Better if you ever played that in your younger days at a camp or if you've ever done it in team building excercises with co workers.
So far from last summers start when we gained pretty sizable flexibility we started with 0 assets in the next 3 years except Brunson our 2020 1st, GS 2nd and our 2nds. (We actually had some more 2nds we sent for Delon but not anything worth mentioning).
We took cap space and got Curry, DFS, Kleber, and Wright signed in FA. (Powell was still under contract so ignoring him)
We flipped Curry into Richardson who as a 2 way player and expiring is much more valuable, a high 2nd
Wright was flipped into a pretty large expiring and a decent bench guy. That expiring is worth something IMO.
And thru development DFS and Kleber have gotten better so that's a better asset too.
We literally started from 0 since all of our assets were exhausted from KP. So it's a slow process just like Bigger or Better to get to the winning item and win the prize.
(11-22-2020, 12:36 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]All that said, I think a THJ/Brunson package could possibly bring back a really nice player!
It ABSOLUTELY could. Lots and lots of teams really need shooting. The problem is, you move Curry AND THJ AND KP is injured, the Mavericks could be among them in the blink of an eye, and there goes all that real estate Luka enjoys.
Count me among those who think THJ's defense, while certainly not a strength, is not the huge issue it's made out to be, and might not even be that bad in a situation where the rest of the team defends better. Ditto for Luka, and I feel like HE'S even going to improve some on that end.
That's what I'm saying with THJ. His defensive deficiencies (I believe are larger than you are willing to admit) can be overcome with the multitude of defenders we just got.
Sometimes we just need stops in a game to change the momentum. Last year we had no options whatsoever to make that happen. We now have those options, guys that can just make it miserable for the opposite team and "muddy the waters" so-to-speak.
That makes having the quick decisions-making sharpshooting that THJ brings, a much bigger asset.
Edit: Also, count me in the camp that after seeing Luka up his defense in the playoffs last year, that believes he shows as a neutral defender this year evolving his all around game. This is of course based on the assumption that JRich is a good enough secondary ball-handler to spell Luka on offense periodically as needed.
(11-22-2020, 12:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-22-2020, 12:33 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Dan's HIBW plan is what the Mavs are trying to do.
OF COURSE!
FYI, anytime I've advocated the 2021 plan, I've done so with the above in mind, fully ready to break off and commit to something awesome if/when the time comes.
It's not all about Giannis.
But honestly, HIBW is just a cap space plan, only the smart way to do it. Have a good team first, then maintain flexibility while improving the team. The exciting young players + playoff status + a little playoff success (hopefully) = PLAYERS WANT TO JOIN. On your way to creating that scene, you have the flexibility to ditch it for another Porzingis trade anytime another Porzingis situation comes up. Worst case scenario, you re-sign the guys you like and start an over the cap approach, only with players YOU signed to contracts YOU think they're worth. It's such a better situation than the Dirk years, which, in hindsight, make me think Don Nelson was hammered 24/7.
Honestly, if everyone would just let Fish's stupid "plan powder" phrase go, people could get over the triggering that causes and start thinking instead of reacting. I believe that it's very obvious that they're on a good path, and while we obviously can't predict the outcome, at least they're not beating themselves.
Agree that the terminology is what throws people off. I see it as “enjoying the flexibility until the dye is cast on Luka’s first team”
This is an unusual time since Luka is on his rookie deal. We need to stack as much talent around him as possible until he signs his max extension. Once that kicks in we will become limited with KP also on a max deal. We’re building a juggernaut and this is how you do it. With or without Giannis we will have an insane amount of talent for Luka’s first team