Set aside the salary, and I personally do think Conley would be a positive on the floor in Dallas. To the point that even in the likely situation a trade doesn't happen, I could easily see Dallas being interested in him as a FA next season (at a much lower salary). They've expressed interest in the past, and he's the type of veteran leader, perimeter defender, and secondary ballhandler they need.
That said, the salary is a legit problem this season. And considering age and trajectory I also prefer THJ in general. But in a hypothetical mega-deal with Gobert and Conley both coming back, I think Dallas would be happy to have him.
(10-24-2020, 02:03 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ] (10-24-2020, 10:40 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Ya, in a Gobert trade I can’t believe any trade without Kleber outgoing. That’s got to be at least a bit of the compensation for losing possibly the best defender in the league, even if he isn’t gonna resign. Conley is another interesting addition. It’s hard to imagine Utah being dumb enough to give up both, and in the same deal as well.
Why? Conley has largely been a disappointment, being outplayed by Clarkson. It makes a lot of sense for them to dump his remaining contract. They get #18+#31 from the Mavs, plus their own pick at #23, they could draft their "replacements". Historically Utah has done pretty well staying afloat with their drafting and proactive trading. Maybe they get Smith at #18, Anthony/Terry at #23 and Stewart/Carey/Azubuike at #31.
For the Mavs it makes sense, since the contracts are so large that at least one of Powell and Wright has to be in the trade, possibly both. Since Gobert/Conley are free agents you actually gain cap flexibility. Furthermore it´s a move that could make us a legit contender, if it goes extremely well, unlike a Oladipo trade for example. Especially since it would attract ring chasers imho. Suddenly somebody like Gallinari could be interested to sign with the Euro All-Stars for the MLE.
I´m not even sure the Jazz can ask for much more than #18+#31+future 1st. Most people around the league assume they will let Gobert walk as the trend of not overpaying the C position is accelerated by COVID. Conley has no positive value either. So three virtual 1st round picks seems very fair compensation given that they have to take some of our dreck. Therefore I´m not even sure Kleber, Curry or Brunson have to be in the deal. Certainly not more than one of them.
I can still see this go horribly wrong and it would truly be an awkward fit, but you´d still be in a good spot for 2021. Gallinari on the MLE, maybe re-sign Conley to a $5-8M contract. You still have $25-30M left to spend on somebody else, if Gobert doesn´t work out.
Why? Because Utah isn't going to do this to rebuild using those picks. If they're wanting to extend Mitchell, they need some pieces they can sell to him that will help him get to where he wants to go. Otherwise, he's Hayward 2.0 and leaving as soon as he can, or asking for trade which is worse than Hayward. I think WCS and Kleber would be fine casualties to give over if a trade like this were to happen.
Random thought... Wright/Jackson with a S&T Lee for Conley.
It saves Utah money now, and Dallas money in '21. And it swaps PGs to teams who might be able to put them to better use.
Who says no?
As far as Conley and his value, he's expiring now, and he showed some signs of life in the bubble. How many of us are hoping Burke shows what he showed in the bubble? If Conley just took a year to figure things out on a new team and has now found his fit with the team, he becomes a positive player for them. I see little need for Utah to sell so low for him.
With the talk of starting the season in 2 months on 12/22 will Porzingis, Powell and Brunson be ready? So a healthy Conley and Gobert might come in handy this coming season - hypothetically speaking.
(10-24-2020, 06:05 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Random thought... Wright/Jackson with a S&T Lee for Conley.
It saves Utah money now, and Dallas money in '21. And it swaps PGs to teams who might be able to put them to better use.
Who says no?
I'd say Utah, because I believe they will still try to win now and this trade clearly makes them worse. Wright also kills a bit of their flexibility in 2021. If the goal is to win, I assume there are better possibilities around.
How about Utah standard partner Cleveland? Conley and #23 for Love and Garland? Or swap with Philly - Conley for Harris might benefit both teams in terms of "win now".
If winning is not a priority and I would be so pressed to save money, I would rather give a call to one of the cap teams and added a couple of second roudners (if necessary) to eat the contract. Who knows, perhaps Atlanta takes him for free, they could use a mentor for Young. Perhaps Charlotte would give a minor asset for Batum swap. Perhaps a trade with Detroit with Snell and Kennard coming to Utah for the #23 and other picks if needed? All of these seem far better options than Dallas offer.
Honestly, I think it has been way exaggerated how bad contract Conley is supposed to be. He is expiring, Utah is relatively far from tax. While he was bad (relatively speaking based on size of his contract - he was still twice the player Wright is) in the regular season, he was excellent in the playoffs scoring almost 20 ppg on excellent efficiency.
Conley would be overpaid, but one if his attributes fits a Mavs stated need. He's a tough, battle tested vet.
Here's my semi-realistic but over-engineered offseason plan. This would improve the roster next year, allow Dallas to keep their picks, stay out of the luxury tax, and clear a 2021 max slot. I hope the Mavs have something like this in mind rather than a depressing salary dump using the draft picks.
Draft
1) DAL Out: #31, 2021 & 2022 2nd
PHI Out: #34, #36
Philadelphia is already fighting the luxury tax and they have four 2nd rounders. Some sort of consolidating move seems likely.
2) DAL Out: Curry, Jackson, #34
DAL In: Schroder
MIL Out: Ilyasova, #24
MIL In: Curry
OKC Out: Schroder
OKC In: Ilyasova, Jackson, #24, #34
OKC gets two picks for Schroder before he walks, Dallas gets a secondary playmaker, and Milwaukee gets an elite shooter to make teams pay for doubling Giannis.
3) Draft Tyrese Maxey at 18
4) Draft Paul Reed at 36
Free Agency
1) THJ and WCS opt-in
2) DAL Out: THJ, Wright
DAL In: OPJ
CHI Out: OPJ
CHI In: Richardson, Wright, Scott
PHI Out: Richardson, Scott
PHI In: THJ
Hardaway makes a lot of sense for a team in need of shooting like Philadelphia. Dallas would find OPJ much more useful at SF rather than playing THJ out of position. Chicago I'm the least sure of, but they do get two useful players for one who has been constantly injured. Plan B would be to do the deal straight up for Richardson. Or simply keep THJ at the 3 if you prefer and try to move Wright in a separate deal.
3) Sign Reed w/ MLE ($1.5M in year 1, year 3 & 4 non-guaranteed)
4) Re-sign Burke w/ MLE ($4.2M in year 1, year 2 & 3 non-guaranteed)
5) DAL Out: WCS, Lee (S&T), $5.6M cash
NYK Out: Harkless (S&T)
Harkless - $11.2M in year one, year 2 & 3 non-guaranteed
Lee - $5.6M in year one, year 2 & 3 non-guaranteed
Dallas gets a quality backup SF. Since it's a 1 year contract I gave Harkless as large a deal as possible while staying under the tax. Perhaps it's enough to sign him even if there are smaller multi-year offers on the table. New York takes a flyer on WCS, and Dallas pays for them to waive Lee if desired.
6) Re-sign Barea and MKG (vet min - counts as $1.6M each)
Depth Chart
Luka / Brunson / Barea
Schroder / Maxey / Burke
OPJ / Harkless / MKG
DFS / Kleber / Reed
KP / Powell / Boban
Total Salary: $132.6M
Luxury Tax: $132.6M (projected)
2021 Cap Space
KP 31.7
Powell 11.1
Luka 10.2
Kleber 8.8
DFS 4.0
Maxey 3.0
Brunson 1.8
Reed 1.5
Min x4 3.6
Total: $75.7M
Space: $33.4M (need $32.7M for a max deal)
Let's go crazy and play chess instead of checkers: For those don't like the idea of a Luka, KP, Gobert core, what if it was Luka, Giannis, Gobert?
(10-25-2020, 12:46 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Let's go crazy and play chess instead of checkers: For those don't like the idea of a Luka, KP, Gobert core, what if it was Luka, Giannis, Gobert?
Even worse. Neither big can shoot, and both are in their element when they're in the paint. 99% sure this doesn't work.
At least KP/Gobert would work on offense.
(10-24-2020, 10:51 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Here's my semi-realistic but over-engineered offseason plan. This would improve the roster next year, allow Dallas to keep their picks, stay out of the luxury tax, and clear a 2021 max slot. I hope the Mavs have something like this in mind rather than a depressing salary dump using the draft picks.
Draft
1) DAL Out: #31, 2021 & 2022 2nd
PHI Out: #34, #36
Philadelphia is already fighting the luxury tax and they have four 2nd rounders. Some sort of consolidating move seems likely.
2) DAL Out: Curry, Jackson, #34
DAL In: Schroder
MIL Out: Ilyasova, #24
MIL In: Curry
OKC Out: Schroder
OKC In: Ilyasova, Jackson, #24, #34
OKC gets two picks for Schroder before he walks, Dallas gets a secondary playmaker, and Milwaukee gets an elite shooter to make teams pay for doubling Giannis.
3) Draft Tyrese Maxey at 18
4) Draft Paul Reed at 36
Free Agency
1) THJ and WCS opt-in
2) DAL Out: THJ, Wright
DAL In: OPJ
CHI Out: OPJ
CHI In: Richardson, Wright, Scott
PHI Out: Richardson, Scott
PHI In: THJ
Hardaway makes a lot of sense for a team in need of shooting like Philadelphia. Dallas would find OPJ much more useful at SF rather than playing THJ out of position. Chicago I'm the least sure of, but they do get two useful players for one who has been constantly injured. Plan B would be to do the deal straight up for Richardson. Or simply keep THJ at the 3 if you prefer and try to move Wright in a separate deal.
3) Sign Reed w/ MLE ($1.5M in year 1, year 3 & 4 non-guaranteed)
4) Re-sign Burke w/ MLE ($4.2M in year 1, year 2 & 3 non-guaranteed)
5) DAL Out: WCS, Lee (S&T), $5.6M cash
NYK Out: Harkless (S&T)
Harkless - $11.2M in year one, year 2 & 3 non-guaranteed
Lee - $5.6M in year one, year 2 & 3 non-guaranteed
Dallas gets a quality backup SF. Since it's a 1 year contract I gave Harkless as large a deal as possible while staying under the tax. Perhaps it's enough to sign him even if there are smaller multi-year offers on the table. New York takes a flyer on WCS, and Dallas pays for them to waive Lee if desired.
6) Re-sign Barea and MKG (vet min - counts as $1.6M each)
Depth Chart
Luka / Brunson / Barea
Schroder / Maxey / Burke
OPJ / Harkless / MKG
DFS / Kleber / Reed
KP / Powell / Boban
Total Salary: $132.6M
Luxury Tax: $132.6M (projected)
2021 Cap Space
KP 31.7
Powell 11.1
Luka 10.2
Kleber 8.8
DFS 4.0
Maxey 3.0
Brunson 1.8
Reed 1.5
Min x4 3.6
Total: $75.7M
Space: $33.4M (need $32.7M for a max deal)
Why do we need a max slot, when we not just make ourself worse next year but also make MIL extremly better.
Would like a Wright-Harkless swap.
(10-25-2020, 01:52 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we need a max slot, when we not just make ourself worse next year but also make MIL extremly better.
Would like a Wright-Harkless swap.
You must value Curry much more than me. I think he helps the Bucks, but he is not the difference in Giannis staying or leaving. Schroder is a better fit for Dallas in the starting lineup. He's more well rounded offensively and is a significant upgrade on D.
There are other free agents we could pursue as well. Even Holiday or George would be a huge addition.
Wright for Harkless could make sense if New York can't land another point guard. They are rumored to be interested in Paul and FVV. Definitely something to keep an eye on.
If Dallas is truly worried about making Milwaukee better, another possibility would be to deal with Philadelphia instead. This probably kills any Richardson for THJ trade though.
DAL Out: Curry, Jackson, #31, 2021 2nd
DAL In: Schroder, #36
PHI Out: Scott, Smith, #21, #36
PHI In: Curry, 2021 DAL 2nd
OKC Out: Schroder
OKC In: Jackson, Scott, Smith, #21, #31
Hollinger season restart article in The Athletic states free agency will likely begin Nov 23 and training camp 10 days later. He says the teams should be ready, they just need to know the cap number.
That should shorten decision making times and any wine and dine meetings. I am not sure Donnie is up to the "speed dating".
(10-25-2020, 08:08 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Hollinger season restart article in The Athletic states free agency will likely begin Nov 23 and training camp 10 days later. He says the teams should be ready, they just need to know the cap number.
That should shorten decision making times and any wine and dine meetings. I am not sure Donnie is up to the "speed dating".
I hope it gets pushed back a little. Would be nice to have everyone fully healthy before training camp.
(10-25-2020, 02:42 AM)loki Wrote: [ -> ] (10-25-2020, 01:52 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we need a max slot, when we not just make ourself worse next year but also make MIL extremly better.
Would like a Wright-Harkless swap.
You must value Curry much more than me. I think he helps the Bucks, but he is not the difference in Giannis staying or leaving. Schroder is a better fit for Dallas in the starting lineup. He's more well rounded offensively and is a significant upgrade on D.
There are other free agents we could pursue as well. Even Holiday or George would be a huge addition.
Wright for Harkless could make sense if New York can't land another point guard. They are rumored to be interested in Paul and FVV. Definitely something to keep an eye on.
I know I do have blue glasses and like our boys to much. But there is value in fit and steadiness. And I have some questions about Dennis' attitude and fit.
I still think (hope) the best way is to keep the Band together and there have to ne a way to just add the missing piece via MLE, Draft, Trade for our spares.
Could be totally wrong xD.
(10-25-2020, 08:08 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Hollinger season restart article in The Athletic states free agency will likely begin Nov 23 and training camp 10 days later. He says the teams should be ready, they just need to know the cap number.
That should shorten decision making times and any wine and dine meetings. I am not sure Donnie is up to the "speed dating".
Going to keep saying it but Mavs will make their big move draft night and in FA its going to be small stuff. I would say FA moves will range somewhere btwn "meh" and "oh not bad" but Mavs aren't angling to sign anybody up for a 4 year contract.
(10-25-2020, 07:21 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (10-25-2020, 08:08 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Hollinger season restart article in The Athletic states free agency will likely begin Nov 23 and training camp 10 days later. He says the teams should be ready, they just need to know the cap number.
That should shorten decision making times and any wine and dine meetings. I am not sure Donnie is up to the "speed dating".
Going to keep saying it but Mavs will make their big move draft night and in FA its going to be small stuff. I would say FA moves will range somewhere btwn "meh" and "oh not bad" but Mavs aren't angling to sign anybody up for a 4 year contract.
My final salvo prior to Friday night - the Mavs' "big draft night move" *****ought***** to be drafting a decent player at 18 - or trading up - but of course I'm going to be disappointed.
(10-25-2020, 07:24 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (10-25-2020, 07:21 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (10-25-2020, 08:08 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Hollinger season restart article in The Athletic states free agency will likely begin Nov 23 and training camp 10 days later. He says the teams should be ready, they just need to know the cap number.
That should shorten decision making times and any wine and dine meetings. I am not sure Donnie is up to the "speed dating".
Going to keep saying it but Mavs will make their big move draft night and in FA its going to be small stuff. I would say FA moves will range somewhere btwn "meh" and "oh not bad" but Mavs aren't angling to sign anybody up for a 4 year contract.
My final salvo prior to Friday night - the Mavs' "big draft night move" *****ought***** to be drafting a decent player at 18 - or trading up - but of course I'm going to be disappointed.
Indeed you shall.