(11-12-2020, 12:17 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2020, 12:16 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]VintagePeja
I remember the name, but not the persona.
He used to get threads made asking for him to get banned due to trolling...
(11-11-2020, 10:59 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 10:36 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 10:27 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]MIN gave up the #5 pick from the previous year Kris Dunn, the #7 pick from that year Lauri Markannen, and Zach Lavine.
In this trade, the Suns beat guy is saying the Suns dont even want to give up the #10 pick in a weak draft. So at most they'd be giving up one #10 pick.
It might not work but Phoenix isn't giving up a ton to try.
since that contract is still the same as last year.
It's not though.
It's a two year deal for a guy coming off 2nd team All-NBA.
Last year, it was a three year deal for a guy that looked like his career was winding down.
Plus Fertitta and his son are morons. That deal was driven by Harden and the owner. No way any real GM gives up all those picks to trade CP3 for Westbrick.
You can go back to last year's offseason thread on this forum. I even said CP3 would probably be the Mavs 2nd best player ahead of KP if we were to trade for him. I was big on CP3 last offseason. He just had one too many years on his contract for my liking. Like Killerleft, I think CP3 might be one of the most underrated players in NBA history. Just because he didnt get along with goofballs Blake and DAJ and then Harden couldn't handle his criticism never once changed my opinion of him.
Give all the excuses you want, there’s enough smoke there to be cautious of fire.
Supes post ***********warning this is an opinion and should be treated as rumor********* (is that a sufficient disclaimer?)
"Update on Westbrook and Paul.
PG and Kawhi are not on the same page but they are working with each other. PG wants Westbrook back and feels like Westbrook would be perfect. Kawhi wants Paul and he's all in for Paul.
OKC wants to trade him to Phoenix but CP3 interest in Phoenix is massively overstated. Yes, CP3 would rather be a Laker but they have no realistic shot of getting him due to the salary cap while LAC does. Westbrook wants to go to LAC but LAC as you can imagine wants Paul more. Ultimately, this comes down to Paul although OKC wants Phoenix instead for so many obvious reasons. They made a promise to Paul to send him where he wanted to go.
The bottomline is Westbrook is fighting for that spot. I was told Westbrook does want a culture change. He felt their was some malcontents and he would like to see a house clean. Harden hasn't put out there that he's ready to go, he just wants to see the team get better. Like the Athletic article, Houston is a mess culturally right now and we know who it all starts with. That said, Westbrook wanting out is overstated.
And yes, Phoenix better win next year or Devin will want out."
The "news" to me is the KL and PG pushing for different point guards. I would go with KL on this one. Hard to put together a 4 team trade when some parties are not sure what they want. Dallas has an easy decision compared to the other teams imo.
(11-12-2020, 08:06 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Supes post ***********warning this is an opinion and should be treated as rumor********* (is that a sufficient disclaimer?)
"Update on Westbrook and Paul.
PG and Kawhi are not on the same page but they are working with each other. PG wants Westbrook back and feels like Westbrook would be perfect. Kawhi wants Paul and he's all in for Paul.
OKC wants to trade him to Phoenix but CP3 interest in Phoenix is massively overstated. Yes, CP3 would rather be a Laker but they have no realistic shot of getting him due to the salary cap while LAC does. Westbrook wants to go to LAC but LAC as you can imagine wants Paul more. Ultimately, this comes down to Paul although OKC wants Phoenix instead for so many obvious reasons. They made a promise to Paul to send him where he wanted to go.
The bottomline is Westbrook is fighting for that spot. I was told Westbrook does want a culture change. He felt their was some malcontents and he would like to see a house clean. Harden hasn't put out there that he's ready to go, he just wants to see the team get better. Like the Athletic article, Houston is a mess culturally right now and we know who it all starts with. That said, Westbrook wanting out is overstated.
And yes, Phoenix better win next year or Devin will want out."
The "news" to me is the KL and PG pushing for different point guards. I would go with KL on this one. Hard to put together a 4 team trade when some parties are not sure what they want. Dallas has an easy decision compared to the other teams imo.
Notice how neither of them wants Rubio?
Just caught up on a huge rumor filled day. I think Rubio to the Mavs isn't happening. What I really think the Mavs are trying to do is nab Beverly and Oubre with as little assets as possible. It would make sense to see DFS name thrown in there and 18. I don't think both would be included.
I'd be a happy facilitator in any trade as long as it gets us off our own garbage. I can see OKC having interest in Wright given they're getting rid of their lead guard and Schroder is on his way out. If I were the Mavs, my plan would be Bev/Oubre as a 3rd team, and then going to Houston and offering 18+whatever else we didn't trade for Covington.
Luka/Bev
THJ/Curry
Oubre/MLE
Covington/Maxi
KP/Boban/Powell(?)
That's a squad right there.
(11-12-2020, 09:46 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Just caught up on a huge rumor filled day. I think Rubio to the Mavs isn't happening. What I really think the Mavs are trying to do is nab Beverly and Oubre with as little assets as possible. It would make sense to see DFS name thrown in there and 18. I don't think both would be included.
I'd be a happy facilitator in any trade as long as it gets us off our own garbage. I can see OKC having interest in Wright given they're getting rid of their lead guard and Schroder is on his way out. If I were the Mavs, my plan would be Bev/Oubre as a 3rd team, and then going to Houston and offering 18+whatever else we didn't trade for Covington.
Luka/Bev
THJ/Curry
Oubre/MLE
Covington/Maxi
KP/Boban/Powell(?)
That's a squad right there.
What´s the argument to trade for Patrick Beverley, when I can just sign Kris Dunn?
Identical PG leading advanced metrics last season, only Dunn is five years younger, healthier and didn´t get his number playing with Kawhi and PG13. I bet you can even work out some S&T with Chicago to retain your MLE.
When you factor in contracts DFS is more valuable than Oubre. We want to add defensive talent, not subtract it.
Houston gave up Capela and a 1st round pick for Covington a few months ago. Do we have such assets? Before getting into whether he´s even on the market.
You need to catch these defensive guys on the way-up. I´d just go after Kris Dunn and Isaac Bonga. Much cheaper.
(11-12-2020, 09:46 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Just caught up on a huge rumor filled day. I think Rubio to the Mavs isn't happening. What I really think the Mavs are trying to do is nab Beverly and Oubre with as little assets as possible. It would make sense to see DFS name thrown in there and 18. I don't think both would be included.
I'd be a happy facilitator in any trade as long as it gets us off our own garbage. I can see OKC having interest in Wright given they're getting rid of their lead guard and Schroder is on his way out. If I were the Mavs, my plan would be Bev/Oubre as a 3rd team, and then going to Houston and offering 18+whatever else we didn't trade for Covington.
Luka/Bev
THJ/Curry
Oubre/MLE
Covington/Maxi
KP/Boban/Powell(?)
That's a squad right there.
The first part of that we call the “Tyler Plan”. The second part we call the Good Luck with That Plan.
I mainly wanted to point out/repeat that the Phoenix rumor (where we give up DFS/18 and probably Wright to help match salaries) may be a blue print for other things under consideration. The elements being:
1. Move up in the draft (or add draft capital to move up)
2. Move off of enough 2021 salary to make it easy to create max room if necessary by trading for expiring players.
3. Try to get expiring players who bring something to the table.
Oubre is probably more of a name than an actual asset. But, in my mind he wasn’t the point of the Phoenix deal. The point was #10. There are similar players that teams may want to get off of among teams with higher picks. DeRozan and Aldridge come to mind without spending any time looking.
But, the theory would also work in terms of getting a pick outside the lottery. We could combine 31 and some combination of players to get something in the teens or early 20’s and an expiring player. That pick could then be combined with 18 to move up. Same result, different assets. There really isn’t anything special about Oubre that makes this have to be centered around him. Dealing with Phoenix was just a direct route to #10. Also, just because the CP3 deal doesn’t happen, it doesn’t mean Dallas can’t do a deal with Phoenix directly.
(11-12-2020, 10:10 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2020, 09:46 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Just caught up on a huge rumor filled day. I think Rubio to the Mavs isn't happening. What I really think the Mavs are trying to do is nab Beverly and Oubre with as little assets as possible. It would make sense to see DFS name thrown in there and 18. I don't think both would be included.
I'd be a happy facilitator in any trade as long as it gets us off our own garbage. I can see OKC having interest in Wright given they're getting rid of their lead guard and Schroder is on his way out. If I were the Mavs, my plan would be Bev/Oubre as a 3rd team, and then going to Houston and offering 18+whatever else we didn't trade for Covington.
Luka/Bev
THJ/Curry
Oubre/MLE
Covington/Maxi
KP/Boban/Powell(?)
That's a squad right there.
The first part of that we call the “Tyler Plan”. The second part we call the Good Luck with That Plan.
I mainly wanted to point out/repeat that the Phoenix rumor (where we give up DFS/18 and probably Wright to help match salaries) may be a blue print for other things under consideration. The elements being:
1. Move up in the draft (or add draft capital to move up)
2. Move off of enough 2021 salary to make it easy to create max room if necessary by trading for expiring players.
3. Try to get expiring players who bring something to the table.
Oubre is probably more of a name than an actual asset. But, in my mind he wasn’t the point of the Phoenix deal. The point was #10. There are similar players that teams may want to get off of among teams with higher picks. DeRozan and Aldridge come to mind without spending any time looking.
But, the theory would also work in terms of getting a pick outside the lottery. We could combine 31 and some combination of players to get something in the teens or early 20’s and an expiring player. That pick could then be combined with 18 to move up. Same result, different assets. There really isn’t anything special about Oubre that makes this have to be centered around him. Dealing with Phoenix was just a direct route to #10. Also, just because the CP3 deal doesn’t happen, it doesn’t mean Dallas can’t do a deal with Phoenix directly.
TOTALLY AGREE that Oubre is nowhere near significant enough to warrant the Mavs’ inclusion. I think we all agree about that. I TOTALLY HOPE that #10 is the point, but given what we have learned (if true) I’m still skeptical.
Maybe there are some missing pieces of the puzzle that would help define it a bit. I sure hope that’s the case.
Personally, I am PREPARED for anything.
(11-12-2020, 10:09 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]What´s the argument to trade for Patrick Beverley, when I can just sign Kris Dunn?
Identical PG leading advanced metrics last season, only Dunn is five years younger, healthier and didn´t get his number playing with Kawhi and PG13. I bet you can even work out some S&T with Chicago to retain your MLE.
Dunn is a terrible shooter. Career 30.6% from 3. Last season 25.9%.
(11-12-2020, 10:15 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2020, 10:10 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2020, 09:46 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Just caught up on a huge rumor filled day. I think Rubio to the Mavs isn't happening. What I really think the Mavs are trying to do is nab Beverly and Oubre with as little assets as possible. It would make sense to see DFS name thrown in there and 18. I don't think both would be included.
I'd be a happy facilitator in any trade as long as it gets us off our own garbage. I can see OKC having interest in Wright given they're getting rid of their lead guard and Schroder is on his way out. If I were the Mavs, my plan would be Bev/Oubre as a 3rd team, and then going to Houston and offering 18+whatever else we didn't trade for Covington.
Luka/Bev
THJ/Curry
Oubre/MLE
Covington/Maxi
KP/Boban/Powell(?)
That's a squad right there.
The first part of that we call the “Tyler Plan”. The second part we call the Good Luck with That Plan.
I mainly wanted to point out/repeat that the Phoenix rumor (where we give up DFS/18 and probably Wright to help match salaries) may be a blue print for other things under consideration. The elements being:
1. Move up in the draft (or add draft capital to move up)
2. Move off of enough 2021 salary to make it easy to create max room if necessary by trading for expiring players.
3. Try to get expiring players who bring something to the table.
Oubre is probably more of a name than an actual asset. But, in my mind he wasn’t the point of the Phoenix deal. The point was #10. There are similar players that teams may want to get off of among teams with higher picks. DeRozan and Aldridge come to mind without spending any time looking.
But, the theory would also work in terms of getting a pick outside the lottery. We could combine 31 and some combination of players to get something in the teens or early 20’s and an expiring player. That pick could then be combined with 18 to move up. Same result, different assets. There really isn’t anything special about Oubre that makes this have to be centered around him. Dealing with Phoenix was just a direct route to #10. Also, just because the CP3 deal doesn’t happen, it doesn’t mean Dallas can’t do a deal with Phoenix directly.
TOTALLY AGREE that Oubre is nowhere near significant enough to warrant the Mavs’ inclusion. I think we all agree about that. I TOTALLY HOPE that #10 is the point, but given what we have learned (if true) I’m still skeptical.
Maybe there are some missing pieces of the puzzle that would help define it a bit. I sure hope that’s the case.
Personally, I am PREPARED for anything.
I mean the rumor literally had #10 and #18 included, not exactly written which pick goes where. but #10 was included
(11-12-2020, 10:10 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Oubre is probably more of a name than an actual asset. But, in my mind he wasn’t the point of the Phoenix deal. The point was #10.
I have huge respect for you, but I think you are just way off with this valuation. Phoenix has absolutely no need to pay someone #10 to take expiring Oubre while taking back DFS, Wright and #18. I guess they can get a better wing prospect at even lower and longer controlled salary with #10 pick, while #18 might be just far enough to miss all top wings of this draft (Okoro, Vassell, Williams, Bey, Nesmith). I just don't see the value here for Phoenix, unless we start adding #31 and/or Brunson. It is cheaper for them to ship Oubre to "Charlotte" with second rounder attached.
Much more realistic for #10 would be to eat Rubio salary for DFS, Wright, Jackson and #18.
I guess we will see in a week.
(11-12-2020, 10:26 AM)sefant Wrote: [ -> ]I mean the rumor literally had #10 and #18 included, not exactly written which pick goes where. but #10 was included
Yes, #10 and #18 were included. And, I agree that some good points are being made about the logic from the MAVS’ perspective.
Since #10 was the highest pick mentioned, and the prize of the deal is Chris Paul, I just can’t get to the point where I believe that pick isn’t what THEY (OKC) are after. I just feel like any attempt to explain that is wishful thinking. Maybe there are other assets not listed in the rumor that would help me get there, mentally. I am just not seeing any motivation for OKC to trade Chris Paul to Phoenix with the trade structures that I have seen people dream up here over the last 24 hours.
Even this idea that the Mavericks want to move up that high in the first place is based on our interpretation of some very nebulous and smokescreen-ish comments from a Townsend article. Historically, it is much more in character for the Mavs to punt on the draft and snag a vet, and while I am not saying that that is what I would do, necessarily, or even what the Mavs are going to do, it seems like we have just taken @"Kammrath"’s “The Mavs must want Hayes” narrative and run with it. He might be right, and if he is I will give him a heap of credit. But, has literally anyone who would know actually said that? It just seems like at this point, hopes and guesses are coloring our logic quite a bit. Just my opinion. Would LOVE to be wrong.
BTW, good to see you over here, Sefant77!
(11-12-2020, 10:20 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-12-2020, 10:09 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]What´s the argument to trade for Patrick Beverley, when I can just sign Kris Dunn?
Identical PG leading advanced metrics last season, only Dunn is five years younger, healthier and didn´t get his number playing with Kawhi and PG13. I bet you can even work out some S&T with Chicago to retain your MLE.
Dunn is a terrible shooter. Career 30.6% from 3. Last season 25.9%.
That´s why you need proper evaluation on these younger players.
First three seasons he went from 28% to 32% to 35% in 3pt percentage. 61% to 74% to 80% from FT line.
Could just be a down year, in an upward trajectory, on one of the worst offensive teams in the whole league. Bottom five in almost all categories, while their volume shooter Lavine even shot 45/38/80, dragged up all the overall numbers.
Luka on the other hand elevates the shooting numbers of all the players around. So it´s not unreasonable to think Dunn could be a consistent 35-37% 3pt shooter on the Mavericks.
(11-12-2020, 10:41 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]The Houston Rockets are reportedly interested in two of the top bigs expected to be available in free agency next week.
According to ESPN's Tim MacMahon on the Brian Windhorst & The Hoop Collective podcast (beginning at the 9:55 mark), the Rockets have shown interest in veteran center Serge Ibaka and a younger, cheaper option in Nerlens Noel.
Tim MacMahon is really the guy for the big scoop. Who would have thought that a team with literally zero nominal PF/Cs on their roster would be looking for a center in free agency.
(11-12-2020, 10:09 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]What´s the argument to trade for Patrick Beverley, when I can just sign Kris Dunn?
Identical PG leading advanced metrics last season, only Dunn is five years younger, healthier and didn´t get his number playing with Kawhi and PG13. I bet you can even work out some S&T with Chicago to retain your MLE.
We need veteran leadership. We were the worst clutch team in the league last year, and one of the worst clutch teams in NBA history. A large part of that I think is because we didn't have a vet on the court that could calm the team down and make winning plays.
I think for all the warts Beverly has (and trust me I understand he has a lot), he is a winning player. Last year he helped take 2 games off the fully healthy KD Warriors and made Steph work for his points (8/18, 3/14 games). He is a consistent defensive force and a guy that can win games just by being annoying. One of the best examples of "love him on your team hate him on another".
Dunn has been largely an inconsequential player on really bad teams. He has shown mixed results as a 3pt shooter, and hasn't proved he could be a significant difference maker on a playoff team. For a team like the Mavs that are looking to take the next step, I wouldn't want to rely on 2 unknowns and hope they have career years.