Man, Seth and 18 is a pretty steep price for Richardson (maybe it's on par, but seems high to me). What if it was a bit more creative? Seth/18/31/$5M for Richardson/22/34/36/60 (we love end of the draft picks for whatever reason)? I don't think they want more players and salaries to figure out so we overpay for an extra couple seconds to further even out the trade? Trying to get more creative than what has already been talked about.
(09-22-2020, 12:38 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Man, Seth and 18
One guy misreads the proposal, which was Seth+31, and the whole bunch of you comment on that one
I totally agree Seth + 18 is too much for JRich.
(09-22-2020, 12:09 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 12:00 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 11:49 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 11:44 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]So @omahen is Richardson then ending up on the Mavs in these scenario's or another player? Can you clarify??
I really don't understand, what is not clear. Richardson is the goal. I realize Philly will not trade him for Wright+18. But Detroit might trade Kennard for Wright+18 and Philly might prefer Kennard than Richardson. Or if you want it the other way around - Detroit might trade Kennard for Richardson (saves Philly money and he is a better shooter). But what does a rebuilding Detroit really need from one year rental Richardson. So perhaps Detroit trades Richardson for #18. Can they get a better pick for him?
So you are still not going to get Richardson in that deal. Dallas sending out only 18 + Wright is not going to net Richardson, period. You can disagree which is fine. I don't see why Detroit just sends Philly Kennard for nothing. Nothing in that trade makes sense as its completely 1-sided towards Dallas. It's just not going to happen.
I don’t see how dallas fits in a Kennard trade, but a swap like him for Richardson does make sense for Philly. They’re already at $147 million in cap next year, by far the highest payroll. Doesn’t take a lot to see they likely will want to reduce salaries
They will find a way to move Horford and/or Tobias Harris. Kennard is a good player, why is Detroit sending him away for #18? He was a lotto pick. How is Kennard an upgrade over Richardson? Richardson is a good player, you all are way underrating his value.
The trade that's been pitched that's *way* more realistic would include Curry & #18, no 3-way for Richardson. Still not sure Mavs/Sixers would do it but it's still feasible. This business where Mavs dump Wright with 18 and get Richardson as a prize is just a fantasy.
(09-22-2020, 12:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]the Mavs' single greatest offseason need is not a 3-and-D wing (although that is a very high need), but a Jrue Holiday type (not Jrue because he's too expensive).
Who is the Jrue Holiday type that is gettable? To me Schroder or Bogdan or Tomas are the only ones that comes to mind. I personally think Burke/Brunson can be given the green light to become that type possibly. That would be my internal hope if a good deal is not available.
So for me, the 3&D wing is the big need, because that has to come from the outside for sure. Vassell or OPJ or Frank (or Tomas as well) are my three favs for that.
(09-22-2020, 12:54 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So for me, the 3&D wing is the big need, because that has to come from the outside for sure. Vassell or OPJ or Frank (or Tomas as well) are my three favs for that.
OPJ, ok.
I don't think Franky smokes gets you there, because he makes DFS the bigger wing. To me, the guy you need is the 6'7"-6'9" dude who's bigger and stronger than DFS.
(09-22-2020, 12:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 10:55 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Never forget: this team was ready to push all their chips in for Kemba Walker. They believe they need another playmaking ball handler on this team.
This has been my mantra the past week or so - the Mavs' single greatest offseason need is not a 3-and-D wing (although that is a very high need), but a Jrue Holiday type (not Jrue because he's too expensive).
And as we both said, pick any two of Curry, Burke, and Brunson, not three. BTW, I think you're underrating Seth's playmaking abilities, which make it all the more a Brunson vs. Burke battle. And for those who prefer Brunson over Burke, the idea of Burke is that he would make Brunson a viable trade commodity.
Someone suggested drafting Kira Lewis as a backup point guard. If I'm the Mavs, if I keep 18, I go for a guy I think can fit starting in a year or two (at the latest), not someone who is permanently going to come off the bench on a Luka-run team. The only exception would be if the Mavs think that Aleksej is a future star.
(09-22-2020, 12:03 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 12:00 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]So you are still not going to get Richardson in that deal. Dallas sending out only 18 + Wright is not going to net Richardson, period. You can disagree which is fine. I don't see why Detroit just sends Philly for nothing. Nothing in that trade makes sense as its completely 1-sided towards Dallas. It's just not going to happen.
A while ago you proposed Wright+Jackson+18 for Schroeder trade and Schroeder had much better season than JRich. On both sides of the floor.
I bet you that if Richardson gets traded to Detroit or OKC, he will be moved for pick(s). No reason for them to keep him or for him to stick around with a rebuilding team. He is too good for that. Who is a salary filler in this kind of trade is irrelevant.
(09-22-2020, 12:00 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see why Detroit just sends Philly Kennard for nothing.
Nothing? They get #18 pick
Not sure why, but for some reason Omahen's rejoinder reminded me of "Green card? I'm from East LA."
I don’t get the Brunson vs Burke debate. Brunson was the bench leader, created and played well defensively before the injury. He’s on a team friendly deal in a time space is vital. Burke would be a guy to bring in after we’ve already taken care of business getting other players. Gravy on top. Or possibly a backup option if we strike out. Let’s say we get a wing in trade. Maybe then we feel the best value is Burke for $3 million of the MLE. I just view him as instant bench offense. He can do everything and would be a tool for rick. Let’s not get carried away though since it was just the bubble. Burke should be viewed about the same as Boban- 11th and 12th guys on the team. It’s a long season and they may be needed.
(09-22-2020, 12:52 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Kennard is a good player, why is Detroit sending him away for #18?
Detroit has to decide if they want to resign and build around Kennard or not. Many around the league think he will be moved.
(09-22-2020, 12:52 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]How is Kennard an upgrade over Richardson?
He certainly can be in Philly specific situation. He is much better shooter and Philly desperately needs lights out shooters around Embiid/Simmons. He is also much cheaper. Plus Philly realistically has no way to retain JRich after next season, unless their owners are prepared to pay hundreds of millions of tax.
(09-22-2020, 12:52 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]This business where Mavs dump Wright with 18 and get Richardson as a prize is just a fantasy.
So when you propose Wright+18 for Schroeder it is a sound deal, while JRich is a fantasy?
(09-22-2020, 12:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 12:38 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Man, Seth and 18
One guy misreads the proposal, which was Seth+31, and the whole bunch of you comment on that one I totally agree Seth + 18 is too much for JRich.
I got ot from the Phi trade article posted above. Seth and 31 I’d do. Would you do the trade I proposed? They can think of it as 18 for 22 trade down and 31 for 60 trade down with $5M for 34&36 which is still an overpay I believe. It swaps the team’s draft packages and swaps a player we need for a player they need.
(09-22-2020, 12:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]the guy you need is the 6'7"-6'9" dude who's bigger and stronger than DFS.
Then YOU want to draft Saddiq Bey.
(09-22-2020, 01:05 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s not get carried away though since it was just the bubble. Burke should be viewed about the same as Boban- 11th and 12th guys on the team. It’s a long season and they may be needed.
Another vote for "flash in the pan." Very interesting.
For contrast, I post on another board where the consensus is that the worst possible thing the Mavs could do this off season is let Burke get away.
I don't claim to know for sure, but I'm surprised there isn't more optimism here about him, considering he's the only person on the roster not named Luka even capable of doing what he did in the playoffs. I get the idea that he might never do it again, and that does give me pause, but he DID do things, right in front of our eyes, that THJ, Curry and Brunson cannot do.
I highly doubt Carlisle envisioned making Burke one of the 4-5 most crucial players on the team when they signed him right before the bubble started. Burke TOOK that role. The way he played in the playoffs is, I think, what they envisioned Kemba Walker giving them. If there's a chance you can get that on a bargain deal, do we really think they pass it up because they're worried about developing BRUNSON?
Like I keep saying, it's really about whether they think he can keep playing that way. Ultimately, I will trust whatever call they make. But, I'm surprised sometimes by the fickle optimism applied by fans. I'm extremely optimistic about Burke, because at the very least, I've seen him take over an NBA playoff game.
(09-22-2020, 12:54 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 12:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]the Mavs' single greatest offseason need is not a 3-and-D wing (although that is a very high need), but a Jrue Holiday type (not Jrue because he's too expensive).
Who is the Jrue Holiday type that is gettable? To me Schroder or Bogdan or Tomas are the only ones that comes to mind. I personally think Burke/Brunson can be given the green light to become that type possibly. That would be my internal hope if a good deal is not available.
So for me, the 3&D wing is the big need, because that has to come from the outside for sure. Vassell or OPJ or Frank (or Tomas as well) are my three favs for that.
My vote is Derrick White. Checks all the boxes. Young and good but not too good so he’s gettable. 3 and D perimeter player. You know he’s well coached being under Pop. Low caphold and control after next year so if it works out we hit a home run. White and Rudy Gay for our picks and Wright and Jackson works. Saves them money on top of the picks giving them extra motivation
(09-22-2020, 01:14 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Would you do the trade I proposed?
Sorry, didn't see that one. I thought it was Seth for JRich straight up. Huh, difficult for me to assess all those picks value.
I hate that this conversation has gone to a place where I'm arguing against Brunson, because I LOVE HIM.
(09-22-2020, 01:06 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 12:52 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]This business where Mavs dump Wright with 18 and get Richardson as a prize is just a fantasy.
So when you propose Wright+18 for Schroeder it is a sound deal, while JRich is a fantasy?
Yup they are two different players altho I suspect both would fetch a good return. I definitely believe Schroeder will be moved bc OKC is in sell-off mode. The Sixers are trying to win a CHAMPIONSHIP. Yes they have moves to make but if Elton Brand doesn't retool this roster he is going to get fired. I don't see how Kennard for Richardson makes them better?
Schroeder had a great season and OKC will want to cash in terms of picks which they are gathering. I think 18 is pretty good, just outside of lottery. I would be surprised if a team would give higher than 18. Schroeder has some off-the-court stuff that really hurt his value and his outside shooting hasn't been good until this season. So ya I think 18 + Wright is possible for Dennis and not at all possible for Josh Richardson.
(09-22-2020, 01:15 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (09-22-2020, 12:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]the guy you need is the 6'7"-6'9" dude who's bigger and stronger than DFS.
Then YOU want to draft Saddiq Bey.
Ok, good to know. I'll check him out.
Does he have to be guarded on offense?
(09-22-2020, 01:18 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]My vote is Derrick White.
He would be great. It just depends how SA sees him long term. Is he a fit next to Murray or not? He is also not very young anymore, perhaps too old for a rebuilding team SA is about to become. They also have Walker and to some extent Johnson on guard spots.
(09-22-2020, 01:18 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Burke
I am with the bunch - Burke makes sense if one of Brunson or Curry gets traded. Then I would be all over him. If not, I just don't see a Brunson-Burke-Seth bench line-up and neither of them is a starter on a contender imho.
(09-22-2020, 01:21 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I don't see how Kennard for Richardson makes them better?
Already told you. Or read some Philly pieces how JRich was an awkward fit next to Simmons and Embiid.
Well good luck to you @"omahen". Simmons and Embiid are also an awkward fit but they are not going to give them away. If Mavs landed Richardson for 18 it would be a steal.
Fun fact. Schroeder and JRich are born on exact same day
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3oEduQ3OiH7kZQj3a0/giphy.gif)