(11-23-2020, 01:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If you want my honest opinion (could be wrong) I think that Sacramento would likely do a THJ/Hield trade straight up, as it gives them a shooting option for the season and gets the financial savings they desperately need sooner. And, if Dallas were in a different situation overall, like if they were contenders with the roster in place, only they were hoping for an even better shooter or they were somehow worried about THJ leaving for nothing, then I'd do it, for sure.
If Giannis signs his Supermax in December would the Mavs consider a THJ for Hield trade? I think you could argue pretty easily that Hield is a better version of what you get in THJ. I would be for such a move, I don't think Hield would be hard to move if he doesn't work out but it's hard to picture how a guy that can score like that wouldn't work out in Dallas.
I worry Mavs will still want to keep cap space open in 2021 even if Giannis signs his supermax. I would much rather have the bird in the hand of Hield and try to resign J Rich. Mavs have 2 stars and the other guys just need to slide into well-fitting roles in the offense. Hield is your shooter and scorer. J Rich is your best defender that can also shoot and score. The 5th starter would be DFS or Maxi that provide additional 3D. And that's your team, I think that would be a contending team.
Mavs could just roll with THJ indefinitely. I do think THJ will benefit from J Rich being out there as another wing threat to score. For my money I would try to land Hield if you could really get him for just THJ straight up.
(11-23-2020, 12:41 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]WAY too rich. Good for Donnie for saying NO.
That is the equivalent of:
JRich, #36, #31, #18 all for RoCo. Would you do that?
I wouldn't and I LOVE RoCo.
My gut reaction is no, that's way way too much for RoCo. But then I think about how much of an impact RoCo had on the Rockets, where he basically played center and was their best defender, and how having him would transform this team.
I still probably say no. I'll be honest I don't know how close JRich is as a defender compared to RoCo. If he can bring 90% of what RoCo could bring then the Mavs made the right choice.
(11-23-2020, 01:18 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 01:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If you want my honest opinion (could be wrong) I think that Sacramento would likely do a THJ/Hield trade straight up, as it gives them a shooting option for the season and gets the financial savings they desperately need sooner. And, if Dallas were in a different situation overall, like if they were contenders with the roster in place, only they were hoping for an even better shooter or they were somehow worried about THJ leaving for nothing, then I'd do it, for sure.
If Giannis signs his Supermax in December would the Mavs consider a THJ for Hield trade? I think you could argue pretty easily that Hield is a better version of what you get in THJ. I would be for such a move, I don't think Hield would be hard to move if he doesn't work out but it's hard to picture how a guy that can score like that wouldn't work out in Dallas.
I worry Mavs will still want to keep cap space open in 2021 even if Giannis signs his supermax. I would much rather have the bird in the hand of Hield and try to resign J Rich. Mavs have 2 stars and the other guys just need to slide into well-fitting roles in the offense. Hield is your shooter and scorer. J Rich is your best defender that can also shoot and score. The 5th starter would be DFS or Maxi that provide additional 3D. And that's your team, I think that would be a contending team.
Mavs could just roll with THJ indefinitely. I do think THJ will benefit from J Rich being out there as another wing threat to score. For my money I would try to land Hield if you could really get him for just THJ straight up.
If I am not mistaken, we do not have to trade THJ. Hield has a poison pill contract so Sacramento does not have to take the same salary in return so you could see a pick and maybe Iwundu for Buddy Hield or maybe Sacramento should give us a pick since we are taking on extra salary.
Johnson could even play small ball center
Luka, Rich, THj, DFS, Johnson
The flexibility of this roster is amazing. Plus the trade deadline is there for us. See where we are then, but THj/OPj and Johnson/Aldridge swaps could be easy deals to make. Why couldn’t we be the 2nd best team in the west if everything goes well?
(11-23-2020, 01:26 PM)deronjohn Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 01:18 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 01:04 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If you want my honest opinion (could be wrong) I think that Sacramento would likely do a THJ/Hield trade straight up, as it gives them a shooting option for the season and gets the financial savings they desperately need sooner. And, if Dallas were in a different situation overall, like if they were contenders with the roster in place, only they were hoping for an even better shooter or they were somehow worried about THJ leaving for nothing, then I'd do it, for sure.
If Giannis signs his Supermax in December would the Mavs consider a THJ for Hield trade? I think you could argue pretty easily that Hield is a better version of what you get in THJ. I would be for such a move, I don't think Hield would be hard to move if he doesn't work out but it's hard to picture how a guy that can score like that wouldn't work out in Dallas.
I worry Mavs will still want to keep cap space open in 2021 even if Giannis signs his supermax. I would much rather have the bird in the hand of Hield and try to resign J Rich. Mavs have 2 stars and the other guys just need to slide into well-fitting roles in the offense. Hield is your shooter and scorer. J Rich is your best defender that can also shoot and score. The 5th starter would be DFS or Maxi that provide additional 3D. And that's your team, I think that would be a contending team.
Mavs could just roll with THJ indefinitely. I do think THJ will benefit from J Rich being out there as another wing threat to score. For my money I would try to land Hield if you could really get him for just THJ straight up.
If I am not mistaken, we do not have to trade THJ. Hield has a poison pill contract so Sacramento does not have to take the same salary in return so you could see a pick and maybe Iwundu for Buddy Hield or maybe Sacramento should give us a pick since we are taking on extra salary.
Yeah, I’m only taking Heild with a pick. He’s not worth missing out on FA. Hardaway’s contract is now an asset. I’d rather have otto porters bird rights than buddy
Hield for Wiggins makes more sense
(11-23-2020, 10:38 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 10:31 AM)wisco Wrote: [ -> ]Ok let me rephrase - I hope he earns himself a "real" contract. Just looked at his stats - he can do it all: has an NBA body, can defend, is a hustle guy, steals the ball and hits the 3 38% of the time. Why didnt he get selected earlier?
This is what The Athletic has on him in their draft info
I’m not sure anyone in this 2020 NBA Draft cycle plays harder than Hinton. Just straight up. He constantly works on the court. He chases the ball, chases his man on defense, chases on the glass. He’s just awesome from an effort perspective, and there is some genuine toughness there. He plays through contact, and plays with force. He also is a pretty solid shooter, having hit 39 percent from 3 this past year. Houston put him in a 3-and-D role surrounded by guards, and asked him to defend up and down the lineup, depending on matchups, and he did it all with ease. The issues here are two-fold. First, he’s not really a movement shooter. Most of his possessions came out of standstill spot-ups last year. Second, his athleticism is a real concern. He doesn’t have any burst or lift. Basically, he’s just getting by through outworking everyone, and with good basketball IQ for the way the ball will come off of the rim for rebounds. Simply put, he just might not be quite talented enough to play in the NBA unless he can really lock down that shooting consistency at a high level. But I absolutely want a guy like this to be around my team because he’ll push everyone around him, and I’d happily give him a two-way deal without thinking twice. Would happily take a bet on the shooting coming through, knowing that if it does he can be a 3-and-D rotation player.
Sounds like the perfect Rick Carlisle type of player.
(11-23-2020, 01:43 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/All_Things_Mavs/stat...7328437250
I'm going to say RoCo. He's better defensively, he's better offensively and locked up for an additional year over JRich. He'll be 31 for his next contract so I don't see his salary ballooning all that much.
The case for JRichis he's 3 or so years younger so he has room to develop. Maybe he opts in to the last year of his deal and then their contracts are fairly equal, but I bet he opts out and is looking for a contract in the Bogdan range.
(11-23-2020, 12:33 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder if that is it for JJB? Just training camp and then step aside?
That would be MY preference because I don't want any of the guys we have to be put aside for him.
I know we all love these rookies. But think for a moment, JJB would be 1 of 2 players on the roster over age 30. He is the last vestige of the 2011 title team. He is great friends with Luka/Boban/KP/Powell and everyone else. He would be the ONLY player with significant playoff experience.
Some things to think about. This team needs veteran leadership.
(11-23-2020, 01:50 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Some things to think about. This team needs veteran leadership.
That's primarily Powell's role and why he got the contract he received. Sprinkle in a little Boban. JJB can provide leadership, just not as a player. And I'm saying that as someone who has him ranked as his second favorite Mav ever.
(11-23-2020, 12:33 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 12:23 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Just having JJ in camp is valuable
Wonder if that is it for JJB? Just training camp and then step aside?
That would be MY preference because I don't want any of the guys we have to be put aside for him.
The more I think about it, the more I think that person (@"Mavs2019", maybe) who suggested this was a convenient and easy way to get JJB a "bonus" for his Mavs career makes sense.
I think it simply gives him the chance to feel like he had a shot, making it easier to swallow a transition to coaching, and the guaranteed salary (not aware of any rule that would prohibit the team from stacking a coaching salary on TOP of it) probably helps make him feel valued, too.
(11-23-2020, 01:34 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I’m only taking Heild with a pick. He’s not worth missing out on FA. Hardaway’s contract is now an asset. I’d rather have otto porters bird rights than buddy
Hield for Wiggins makes more sense
1. Getting Hield wouldn't stop you from participating in FA next year.
2. Hield is a better player than OPJ has ever become.
3. Kings are looking to save money, not add to their ever increasing lux tax bill.
I posted a couple of pages back what kind of shooter Hield is. He is absolutely worth more than just THJ. The Mavs getting him turns this team from a top 4 hopeful, to a bonafide homecourt advantage team looking to make a deep run.
(11-23-2020, 01:54 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]That's primarily Powell's role and why he got the contract he received. Sprinkle in a little Boban. JJB can provide leadership, just not as a player. And I'm saying that as someone who has him ranked as his second favorite Mav ever.
Something that both Powell and Boban don't have is significant playoff experience. JJ has been to the playoffs 8 times in his 14 year career. He is the lone player with NBA finals experience.
That is something that inherently has value.
(11-23-2020, 01:26 PM)deronjohn Wrote: [ -> ]If I am not mistaken, we do not have to trade THJ. Hield has a poison pill contract so Sacramento does not have to take the same salary in return so you could see a pick and maybe Iwundu for Buddy Hield or maybe Sacramento should give us a pick since we are taking on extra salary.
Buddy's first year contract counts 50% of its value in trades, so he's worth 12.2 in any outgoing trade. Mavs can't just give Iwundu for Buddy, plus since they signed Iwundu they can't trade him anyways.
12.2? That changes everything. The way it was said made it seem like he had incentives on top of his listed deal. 12.2 is less than Powell plus Burke
(11-23-2020, 01:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy's first year contract counts 50% of its value in trades, so he's worth 12.2 in any outgoing trade.
I believe that partial contract matching provisions like that only apply to 1) extended contracts before the extension kicks in (poison pill), or 2) S&T deals for guys who get raises more than 20% (base year compensation). Hield did fall under #1 last year, but now that it's a new financial year the trade matching for Hield should work as normal from here on out.
(11-23-2020, 02:09 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]12.2? That changes everything. The way it was said made it seem like he had incentives on top of his listed deal. 12.2 is less than Powell plus Burke
Well Buddy's contract numbers are this
20-21: 24,431,818 (500K incentive), 21-22: 18,568,183(500K incentive), 22-23: 18,568,183 (500K incentive), 23-24: 20,522,728(500K) incentive.
I listened to John Hollinger speak about the Buddy situation about a month back, and he said that according to the CBA and Buddy's contract, his first year salary only counts 50% in trades.
Buddy's contract also has about 20 mil total in incentives. 8 mil in likely incentives (such as being top 10 in 3pt percentage, top 10 in makes). And about 12 mil in unlikely incentives (all-star team, finals trip, all NBA etc.). Because he has 12 mil in unlikely incentives, Buddy's contract is about 4-5 mil cheaper per year than what I previously thought it was.
But yes, in a trade, Buddy's value is about 12.2, which is basically Powell and Burke. But there is no way they'd get Buddy for that. THJ+Brunson I believe is the starting conversation.
(11-23-2020, 02:10 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 01:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy's first year contract counts 50% of its value in trades, so he's worth 12.2 in any outgoing trade.
I believe that partial contract matching provisions like that only apply to 1) extended contracts before the extension kicks in (poison pill), or 2) S&T deals for guys who get raises more than 20% (base year compensation). Hield did fall under #1 last year, but now that it's a new financial year the trade matching for Hield should work as normal from here on out.
That sounds right. I just looked up the CBA and tried finding the provision Hollinger referenced and saw that listed, which is what he could be referring to.
In either case, I don't think that changes much for the Mavs. They aren't going to trade for Hield and keep THJ, so in either case THJ would be outgoing.
In a perfect world JJB is sent to the Coaching staff for the opening of the season...
He would then be eligible to be a 10 Day contract when the January 1st equivalent is met during the season.
JJB gets even MORE $$ and there is stability.
The dark horse in this discussion is that Courtney Lee in a S&T could still go a long way to providing a team salary relief IF Dallas were to cut the chase and land their 3rd player before the season starts, using the 1yr guarantee.
This is not limited to Gobert or Harris or Hield -
Lee and THJ could get John Wall if Washington got scared of the TAX
Lee and Powell could conceivably salary match for Gobert...
Idea being that there is still a 2 for 1 opportunity in trades before the season starts making all of this hand-wringing over 16 signed players a bit premature.
Really good ideas guys. It would be nice to bring in everyone we want to sign early, so we could go well over the cap to keep them all. I’d definitely sacrifice hope for Giannis if we found “our guys”
(11-23-2020, 02:32 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: [ -> ]In a perfect world JJB is sent to the Coaching staff for the opening of the season...
He would then be eligible to be a 10 Day contract when the January 1st equivalent is met during the season.
JJB gets even MORE $$ and there is stability.
The dark horse in this discussion is that Courtney Lee in a S&T could still go a long way to providing a team salary relief IF Dallas were to cut the chase and land their 3rd player before the season starts, using the 1yr guarantee.
This is not limited to Gobert or Harris or Hield -
Lee and THJ could get John Wall if Washington got scared of the TAX
Lee and Powell could conceivably salary match for Gobert...
Idea being that there is still a 2 for 1 opportunity in trades before the season starts making all of this hand-wringing over 16 signed players a bit premature.
I imagine Lee's cap hold is being released at some point soon.
I think most of the posters around here are missing the most important part of free agency, age. Look at the all nba teams and how old they are:
The league is getting old and Luka is 21 while most stars are in their 30's. Dallas needs to surround him with young talent. That means nailing the draft and surrounding him with young talent. Porzingis is 25, THJ is 28, richardson is 27. There is room for one more max FA and it should be a young star. If Giannis does leave what young core in the league is better in terms of skill and fit?
[b]2019-20[/b]
[b]FIRST TEAM[/b]
[b]F:[/b] Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks 25
[b]F:[/b] LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers 35
[b]G:[/b] James Harden, Houston Rockets 31
[b]C: [/b]Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers 27
[b]G:[/b] Luka Doncic, Dallas Mavericks 21
[b]SECOND TEAM[/b]
[b]F:[/b] Kawhi Leonard, LA Clippers 29
[b]C:[/b] Nikola Jokic, Denver Nuggets 25
[b]G:[/b] Damian Lillard, Portland Trail Blazers 30
[b]G: [/b]Chris Paul, Oklahoma City Thunder 35
[b]F:[/b] Pascal Siakam, Toronto Raptors 26
[b]THIRD TEAM[/b]
[b]F:[/b] Jayson Tatum, Boston Celtics 22
[b]F: [/b]Jimmy Butler, Miami Heat 31
[b]C:[/b] Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz 28
[b]G: [/b]Ben Simmons, Philadelphia 76ers 24
[b]G:[/b] Russell Westbrook, Houston Rockets 32
(11-23-2020, 03:46 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (11-23-2020, 02:32 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: [ -> ]In a perfect world JJB is sent to the Coaching staff for the opening of the season...
He would then be eligible to be a 10 Day contract when the January 1st equivalent is met during the season.
JJB gets even MORE $$ and there is stability.
The dark horse in this discussion is that Courtney Lee in a S&T could still go a long way to providing a team salary relief IF Dallas were to cut the chase and land their 3rd player before the season starts, using the 1yr guarantee.
This is not limited to Gobert or Harris or Hield -
Lee and THJ could get John Wall if Washington got scared of the TAX
Lee and Powell could conceivably salary match for Gobert...
Idea being that there is still a 2 for 1 opportunity in trades before the season starts making all of this hand-wringing over 16 signed players a bit premature.
I imagine Lee's cap hold is being released at some point soon.
Why? There has been NO move that required Dallas to get under the cap this offseason. In fact I believe they probably need the cap hold to allow the full MLE and not just the Room Exception. IF anything causes a loss of Lee's cap hold it would be C-Lee signing with another team OR training camp starting with him NOT on the Camp Roster...
![[Image: FalseJovialFoxhound-small.gif]](https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FalseJovialFoxhound-small.gif)
