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(09-09-2020, 11:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I just can´t see them trading Lavine, Markkanen or WCJ. That would be completely idiotic. That it´s the Bulls is probably our only hope. I´d be happy enough to get OPJ, while dumping Wright or Powell in the process.
Only reason I include Markkanen is because of the articles coming from Chi beat writers saying he is on the out with them. I know WCJ is out of the question, but would still love to pry him from them somehow. 


I just don't think Lavine's NBA upbringing is conducive to taking a backseat to 2 better players. That is one of the biggest reasons I'm not high on him. 

OPJ is for sure their biggest prize to be had if the articles are correct in that they want to find him a new home. The 1 year price tag is really steep, but he makes this starting unit really good IMO. He can score as much as THJ did this year if not better in all honesty, and while he's at it he can be a lock down defender 1-4!

Finding a trade that gets OPJ, Tomas and Young here would be our starting unit with Luka and KP. 

OPJ/Tomas/Young for THJ/Kleber/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/#18 and 31 is a trade I'd do in a heartbeat. We'd have to do a bit more work in the offseason, but that group would be great moving into next season!
(09-09-2020, 12:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 11:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I just can´t see them trading Lavine, Markkanen or WCJ. That would be completely idiotic. That it´s the Bulls is probably our only hope. I´d be happy enough to get OPJ, while dumping Wright or Powell in the process.
Only reason I include Markkanen is because of the articles coming from Chi beat writers saying he is on the out with them. I know WCJ is out of the question, but would still love to pry him from them somehow. 


I just don't think Lavine's NBA upbringing is conducive to taking a backseat to 2 better players. That is one of the biggest reasons I'm not high on him. 

OPJ is for sure their biggest prize to be had if the articles are correct in that they want to find him a new home. The 1 year price tag is really steep, but he makes this starting unit really good IMO. He can score as much as THJ did this year if not better in all honesty, and while he's at it he can be a lock down defender 1-4!

Finding a trade that gets OPJ, Tomas and Young here would be our starting unit with Luka and KP. 

OPJ/Tomas/Young for THJ/Kleber/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/#18 and 31 is a trade I'd do in a heartbeat. We'd have to do a bit more work in the offseason, but that group would be great moving into next season!

That's beyond ugly -
I wouldn't swap the players, but why would we give them the picks on top?
(09-09-2020, 12:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 11:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I just can´t see them trading Lavine, Markkanen or WCJ. That would be completely idiotic. That it´s the Bulls is probably our only hope. I´d be happy enough to get OPJ, while dumping Wright or Powell in the process.
Only reason I include Markkanen is because of the articles coming from Chi beat writers saying he is on the out with them. I know WCJ is out of the question, but would still love to pry him from them somehow. 


I just don't think Lavine's NBA upbringing is conducive to taking a backseat to 2 better players. That is one of the biggest reasons I'm not high on him. 

OPJ is for sure their biggest prize to be had if the articles are correct in that they want to find him a new home. The 1 year price tag is really steep, but he makes this starting unit really good IMO. He can score as much as THJ did this year if not better in all honesty, and while he's at it he can be a lock down defender 1-4!

Finding a trade that gets OPJ, Tomas and Young here would be our starting unit with Luka and KP. 

OPJ/Tomas/Young for THJ/Kleber/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/#18 and 31 is a trade I'd do in a heartbeat. We'd have to do a bit more work in the offseason, but that group would be great moving into next season!

I think Lavine would be perfect next to Luka offensively. Exactly what we need. High percentage 3pt shooter and secondary creator. The question is would DFS, Kleber and Porzingis be enough defensively. Interior certainly, but could they cover the 3pt shot? Probably not. Though you could see a down-sized crunchtime line-up with Doncic, Dunn, Lavine, DFS, Porzingis. I think that would work brilliantly.
(09-09-2020, 12:16 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I think the whole board would go for that.
Is it funny that I’m even still on the fence with that trade?

(09-09-2020, 12:44 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's beyond ugly -
I wouldn't swap the players, but why would we give them the picks on top?
Looks like I’m pretty close to the right value then. I don’t get why you don’t see what those players would bring to our team.
(09-09-2020, 12:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]OPJ is for sure their biggest prize to be had if the articles are correct in that they want to find him a new home. The 1 year price tag is really steep, but he makes this starting unit really good IMO. He can score as much as THJ did this year if not better in all honesty, and while he's at it he can be a lock down defender 1-4!

Finding a trade that gets OPJ, Tomas and Young here would be our starting unit with Luka and KP. 

OPJ/Tomas/Young for THJ/Kleber/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/#18 and 31 is a trade I'd do in a heartbeat.


Yeah, I will continue to beat the drum I was beating when OPJ was in WAS....he checks all the boxes of what this team needs. I might make him priority one of the whole offseason if I were the Mavs.

I think OPJ, Tomas, and Young would all be an incredible fit of what this team needs, complementing Luka/KP VERY well.

I would be sad to lose Kleber, but would be willing to part with him to get OPJ and Tomas. However, this is my main question:

What is CHI's direction? What are they looking to accomplish in a trade?  Do they want capspace? Do they want picks? Do they want young talent? 

Figuring this out is the key to putting together a reasonable trade package.
The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Bucks are the "clear favorites" to sign Antetokounmpo when he becomes a free agent in 2021. However, the Miami HeatGolden State WarriorsToronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks are lining up a possible offer, and the Los Angeles Clippers are considering all of their options in a potential sign-and-trade.

"One of the sources said Giannis has an 'admiration' for Clippers head coach Doc Rivers," O'Connor wrote.
(09-09-2020, 02:06 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Bucks are the "clear favorites" to sign Antetokounmpo when he becomes a free agent in 2021. However, the Miami HeatGolden State WarriorsToronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks are lining up a possible offer, and the Los Angeles Clippers are considering all of their options in a potential sign-and-trade.

"One of the sources said Giannis has an 'admiration' for Clippers head coach Doc Rivers," O'Connor wrote.
Jesus all these wimps can´t handle Carlisle. Yeah Giannis join the Clippers. Maybe as a counter dick move LeBron will sign with us for the minimum alongside Anthony Davis.  Big Grin

(09-09-2020, 01:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 12:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]OPJ is for sure their biggest prize to be had if the articles are correct in that they want to find him a new home. The 1 year price tag is really steep, but he makes this starting unit really good IMO. He can score as much as THJ did this year if not better in all honesty, and while he's at it he can be a lock down defender 1-4!

Finding a trade that gets OPJ, Tomas and Young here would be our starting unit with Luka and KP. 

OPJ/Tomas/Young for THJ/Kleber/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/#18 and 31 is a trade I'd do in a heartbeat.


 However, this is my main question:

What is CHI's direction? What are they looking to accomplish in a trade?  Do they want capspace? Do they want picks? Do they want young talent? 

Figuring this out is the key to putting together a reasonable trade package.
[Image: avatars-000077325248-qvdfpn-t500x500.jpg]
(09-09-2020, 02:06 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Bucks are the "clear favorites" to sign Antetokounmpo when he becomes a free agent in 2021. However, the Miami HeatGolden State WarriorsToronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks are lining up a possible offer, and the Los Angeles Clippers are considering all of their options in a potential sign-and-trade.

"One of the sources said Giannis has an 'admiration' for Clippers head coach Doc Rivers," O'Connor wrote.

Time to offer the whole team minus Luka   Smile
(09-09-2020, 01:05 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 12:16 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I think the whole board would go for that.
Is it funny that I’m even still on the fence with that trade?

(09-09-2020, 12:44 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That's beyond ugly -
I wouldn't swap the players, but why would we give them the picks on top?
Looks like I’m pretty close to the right value then. I don’t get why you don’t see what those players would bring to our team.

I just think our Team would be better on with less swapping.

I'm fine with trading JJax and Delon but else it would be opening two holes to close one and burning the assets on the way.
(09-09-2020, 11:26 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 08:37 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 08:23 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Conversation with the beat writers for ATL, NYK and DET...the teams that have cap room this summer.  Gives interesting perspective on the FA class and many of the names we discuss around here:

https://theathletic.com/2042511/2020/09/...ee-agency/

I don't have an account at the Athletic, but I've been thinking about it. Is it worthwhile?
https://theathletic.com/2053640/2020/09/09/where-to-from-here-a-look-at-the-future-for-the-wests-four-eliminated-teams/

Here is another Dallas related article from that site today.

I would be glad to send someone a 30 day free pass.  Just need email.

Just signed up. They got me with their $1.00 a month deal plan. I'd be glad to pay $12 for an entire year to read some great articles from Cato and their writers. Very cheap.
(09-09-2020, 02:12 PM)LukaDrive Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 02:06 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Bucks are the "clear favorites" to sign Antetokounmpo when he becomes a free agent in 2021. However, the Miami HeatGolden State WarriorsToronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks are lining up a possible offer, and the Los Angeles Clippers are considering all of their options in a potential sign-and-trade.

"One of the sources said Giannis has an 'admiration' for Clippers head coach Doc Rivers," O'Connor wrote.

Time to offer the whole team minus Luka   Smile

The issue for any team is that you do not trade anything good for Giannis absent an extension. I am not sure if the team can get the extension at the time the trade is executed (did Houston do that with CP3 when they got him)? Mavs have mostly role players. You certainly would not trade KP unless you had Giannis locked up. You might give up anything not Luka or KP for a 1 yr gamble of Giannis.

Even if you gave up #18, 31 and some combination of your best non-star assets (Curry, DFS, Maxi, Brunson) for a 1 yr rental of Giannis I doubt that would be the best deal they could get. They could either a) try to get Giannis to stay (as many teams do) or b) get a better offer from a team that is confident they could keep Giannis. Certainly GSW would have a competitive offer. Other good teams might give up something good. I am still not convinced Bucks will entertain offers but we shall see.
(09-09-2020, 02:06 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Bucks are the "clear favorites" to sign Antetokounmpo when he becomes a free agent in 2021. However, the Miami HeatGolden State WarriorsToronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks are lining up a possible offer, and the Los Angeles Clippers are considering all of their options in a potential sign-and-trade.

"One of the sources said Giannis has an 'admiration' for Clippers head coach Doc Rivers," O'Connor wrote.

I think based on all of Giannis' comments today about how he is in no way looking for a trade and how he wants to build a culture in MIL, I put the chances of him leaving at less than 5%. Stuff would have to go horribly wrong next year. 

Mavs should just look to make this team as good as it possibly can. F cap space. Luka WILL be better than Giannis is currently. There are arguments that as an individual he is already. As much as I want to create a death team with Luka+KP+Giannis, it seems less and less likely its gonna happen.
Giannis does seem like the guy who could stay. The issue is that he's on a team with a lot of older players. Khris is 29 which isn't too bad. Bledsoe is 30 but the bigger issue is that he has played poorly in the playoffs. Lopez is 32, George Hill is 34. DiVincenzo is only 23 still.

I am sure the Bucks will try some maneuvering to put a better team out there. Moving Bledsoe would be big. Not sure what ammunition they have to make moves.
(09-09-2020, 02:41 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I just think our Team would be better on with less swapping.
That’s a fair thought, not one I agree with because when I watched the playoffs, getting a couple bench players back in the rotation does not fill that gap, IMO.

(09-09-2020, 02:41 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I'm fine with trading JJax and Delon but else it would be opening two holes to close one and burning the assets on the way.
Two things about this. I believe the trade proposed the other way around. IMO, we fill 2 bigger holes to open one that Donnie has been pretty good at filling in the offseason. Also, the guys we bring in would be assets as well, esp after resigning OPJ to a reasonable contract after next year.
(09-09-2020, 03:10 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 02:06 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor reported the Bucks are the "clear favorites" to sign Antetokounmpo when he becomes a free agent in 2021. However, the Miami HeatGolden State WarriorsToronto Raptors and Dallas Mavericks are lining up a possible offer, and the Los Angeles Clippers are considering all of their options in a potential sign-and-trade.

"One of the sources said Giannis has an 'admiration' for Clippers head coach Doc Rivers," O'Connor wrote.

I think based on all of Giannis' comments today about how he is in no way looking for a trade and how he wants to build a culture in MIL, I put the chances of him leaving at less than 5%. Stuff would have to go horribly wrong next year. 

Mavs should just look to make this team as good as it possibly can. F cap space. Luka WILL be better than Giannis is currently. There are arguments that as an individual he is already. As much as I want to create a death team with Luka+KP+Giannis, it seems less and less likely its gonna happen.

Well said.  I agree that it is unlikely that Giannis leaves and if he does leave, the chances are slim that he'd pick Dallas.  Plan Powder needs to be treated like Old Yeller.
Setting aside (for a second) the debate on what the Mavs should do moving forward, I’m astonished that people aren’t seeing a difference between the last 2-3 “plan powder” free agencies and what some people are hoping to see in 2021. 

Night and day difference. Maybe not Giannis, but someone will want to come here and play with Luka, while nobody wanted to play with 87 year old Dirk. This team looks like a juggernaut just getting started, while those plan powder Mavs looked like a pack of old players employed by a delusional front office. 

I repeat: there’s a 0% chance they go into summer of 2021 with room and strikeout. Now, that might not mean that it’s the best thing to do, because maybe you can build a better team in different ways, but the downside of that path is not the same as it was with Howard, Deron Williams, etc.
Just for discussion purposes, how about an anti-powder idea where we help Milwaukee retain Giannis and get our own 3rd star in the process.

Bucks: Chris Paul
Dallas: Khris Middleton
OKC: THJ, Wright, & picks

I actually think that helps all 3 teams accomplish their goals. And IMO Middleton would be an ideal wing between Luka and KP, to the point where I can see the argument for locking that up now over waiting for the 2021 FA crapshoot.
(09-09-2020, 06:28 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Just for discussion purposes, how about an anti-powder idea where we help Milwaukee retain Giannis and get our own 3rd star in the process.

Bucks: Chris Paul
Dallas: Khris Middleton
OKC: THJ, Wright, & picks

I actually think that helps all 3 teams accomplish their goals. And IMO Middleton would be an ideal wing between Luka and KP, to the point where I can see the argument for locking that up now over waiting for the 2021 FA crapshoot.
Won´t hurt our plan to get Giannis here in 2021, cause I can´t see such a sideways move improving the Bucks enough to keep him.

If we really abandon the superstar chase then Lavine and Dunn would be my ideal off-season. If you think about the dynamic duos of Lillard/McCollum or Harden/Westbrook or Steph/Klay. That´s what you need, then a rim protector and two defensive wings. We got Porzingis. We got DFS. Have to be able to find one starting SF/PF in the draft.
(09-09-2020, 06:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Setting aside (for a second) the debate on what the Mavs should do moving forward, I’m astonished that people aren’t seeing a difference between the last 2-3 “plan powder” free agencies and what some people are hoping to see in 2021.

Night and day difference. Maybe not Giannis, but someone will want to come here and play with Luka, while nobody wanted to play with 87 year old Dirk. This team looks like a juggernaut just getting started, while those plan powder Mavs looked like a pack of old players employed by a delusional front office.

I repeat: there’s a 0% chance they go into summer of 2021 with room and strikeout. Now, that might not mean that it’s the best thing to do, because maybe you can build a better team in different ways, but the downside of that path is not the same as it was with Howard, Deron Williams, etc.

Well-said, brother. I actually like how IGT (pretty sure it was him, if my fading memory is holding up) framed trading for Paul in terms of '22 caproom. CP3 certainly looks to have two good years left in him and would be a good match with our current squad - just so long as he understands that Luka and KP take the last shots in the playoffs. He would lessen the wear-and-tear on our young legend considerably and put us into contention the next two years. Then we have our pick of the free agent crop in '22.

(09-09-2020, 12:19 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-09-2020, 11:59 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I just can´t see them trading Lavine, Markkanen or WCJ. That would be completely idiotic. That it´s the Bulls is probably our only hope. I´d be happy enough to get OPJ, while dumping Wright or Powell in the process.
Only reason I include Markkanen is because of the articles coming from Chi beat writers saying he is on the out with them. I know WCJ is out of the question, but would still love to pry him from them somehow.


I just don't think Lavine's NBA upbringing is conducive to taking a backseat to 2 better players. That is one of the biggest reasons I'm not high on him.

OPJ is for sure their biggest prize to be had if the articles are correct in that they want to find him a new home. The 1 year price tag is really steep, but he makes this starting unit really good IMO. He can score as much as THJ did this year if not better in all honesty, and while he's at it he can be a lock down defender 1-4!

Finding a trade that gets OPJ, Tomas and Young here would be our starting unit with Luka and KP.

OPJ/Tomas/Young for THJ/Kleber/Wright/Brunson/Jackson/#18 and 31 is a trade I'd do in a heartbeat. We'd have to do a bit more work in the offseason, but that group would be great moving into next season!

I would probably sign up for that trade if the Mavs bought a high 20s pick and snagged Tiger Bay. We would then have our MLE to fill out the roster.

Luka/Burke?
Tomas/Curry
OPJ/DFS
Young/Tiger
KP/Bobi/WCS

Not sure Tomas and Young are that much better than what we have offensively, but oh my goodness the defense. Note that that proposed roster doesn't include whom we get with the MLE (we can probably do better than Burke).
(09-09-2020, 06:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Setting aside (for a second) the debate on what the Mavs should do moving forward, I’m astonished that people aren’t seeing a difference between the last 2-3 “plan powder” free agencies and what some people are hoping to see in 2021. 

Night and day difference. Maybe not Giannis, but someone will want to come here and play with Luka, while nobody wanted to play with 87 year old Dirk. This team looks like a juggernaut just getting started, while those plan powder Mavs looked like a pack of old players employed by a delusional front office. 

I repeat: there’s a 0% chance they go into summer of 2021 with room and strikeout. Now, that might not mean that it’s the best thing to do, because maybe you can build a better team in different ways, but the downside of that path is not the same as it was with Howard, Deron Williams, etc.

I think the chance they strike out on a star player is pretty high as there are only a few star players even available. No one is saying Mavs can't get a good player with cap space. The problem with Plan Powder isn't that FA's don't want to come here.

The problem is multi-faceted:

1. MBT believes cap space is worth more than assets. They would pass up the next Maxi-level bargain if that player's salary cut into a max cap slot. This is folly.

2. Attracting top stars through FA is tough and competition is fierce. Do these older late 20's, early 30's see themselves playing next to Luka? Maybe but a lot of times you see guys of similar ages teaming up after they have formed relationships over the years.

Another thing is positionally you have a ball-dominate guard and a star "big" for the foreseeable future as your twosome. A lot of stars are ball-dominate and won't necessarily see a fit next to Luka (Kemba made this calculation last summer). So positioning we need a guard or wing that can play a lot off-ball. That also limits choices.

3. Many stars move to their destination prior to FA which goes back to problem 1 which is Mavs overvalue space and undervalue actual player assets.

And so we go round and round never actually getting a team better than what we would have gotten through other means. Someone will have to let me know when Luka gets his big RFA deal is that in 2022? If Mavs can clear out a max slot then, then I would not be surprised if Bradley Beal is the guy we all talk ourselves into.

Honestly Nuclear Winter turned out to be better than Plan Powder (altho maybe still flawed)? We landed Porzingis through some combination of amazing luck and opportunity thanks the Nuclear Winter which calls for large expiring contracts. If I had to choose one or the other (altho they are not mutually exclusive) I would go for NW. I think the reason why MBT does like PP is that you can do both at the same time. Because you are stocking the team with large expirings every year you have flexibility to trade your way to a star player or sign one in FA. That's been the MO of this front office for many years now.

Luka will have his big RFA deal in a couple years and I guess Mavs will have a tougher time doing this strategy but they might still do it, shedding usable role players all in an effort to sign a big name.

This summer since Plan Powder likely is not achievable I think you still see Nuclear Winter. There is a good chance imo of Wright and maybe Jackson converting to a double digit expiring contract. That would be in line with how MBT likes to operate.

The missed opportunities are players like Buddy Hield who could be a good fit and obtainable. I don't think the MBT will look at Hield at all, simply because his contract extends out for several years. I believe he would be a good asset and potentially flippable in a later deal down the line. But it's unlikely we see any moves like that bc it's all ab Giannis right now.
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