MavsBoard

(09-27-2020, 09:08 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Saw someone on reddit saying this:

"Im pretty sure Cuban and the Mavs did some forward planning with a company that big.

2023 is a big pivotal year for the Mavs. Carlisle's contract is up for renewal during that year. KP's big max contract has a player option in 2023. Powell, Curry and Maxi all come off the books during that year as well. So technically the Mavs have up until then to figure it out, and if not they can always scrap everyone except Luka and start over.

I'm sure there will be superstars who will take 1+1 deals in 2021 which will make them FAs in 2023 again. But as of today, both Jokic and Embiid are UFA in 2023. if KP cant play 82 games by then, I would like to think the organization might prefer to go a different route. Maybe take one of those two centers, and still have space for one more max.

Luka and Jokic on the same team would be Harlem Globetrotter levels of passing. You need to add some defense there though. These two have been good friends even before the NBA bubble too."

By that line of thinking, a 3 year S&T and 3 year MLE (say a 26 year old big and a 23 YO wing defender) and a 3 year first round draft pick and a 3 year partial MLE to #31 would make a lot of sense.  Powell, Maxi and Curry will be getting along in age by the time Plan Joker is ready to implement.

---

(09-27-2020, 10:02 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so I just watched a Harrell highlight video from the regular season. Skinny, in shape Harrell is better than fat, can barely move Harrell, like in the playoffs. I guess. 

Still, all of his points come on dunks, and he can barely reach the rim. 

The numbers seem to say that he's an effective player, and he's very young, but...I don't know what it is, I'm just having trouble getting excited about this one.

If they do this, at least half of this guy's salary needs to be tied up in "treadmill time" bonuses.

So, you are softening up a little.  Hmmm.  OK, try this...  Watch especially the sections where he's playing in the summer and the parts where they talk about him working on his game.  There is more to his O than we presume.  He also comes across as much more of a success story than the "white boy" incident would have us believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DTyLdS-Ea4

I don't hate him because of the Luka thing. I hate him because he was awful as a player in that series. 

Having said that, dude won 6th Man of the Year, so my lack of familiarity with his game must have me missing something. He was clearly among the players who sat on their couches during the stoppage, thinking the season would not resume. I think that's the type of dude you DO NOT pay.

(09-27-2020, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't hate him because of the Luka thing. I hate him because he was awful as a player in that series. 

Having said that, dude won 6th Man of the Year, so my lack of familiarity with his game must have me missing something. He was clearly among the players who sat on their couches during the stoppage, thinking the season would not resume. I think that's the type of dude you DO NOT pay.

Then again, Lamar Odem won 6th man of the year too! 

(09-27-2020, 10:02 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]So, you are softening up a little.  Hmmm.  OK, try this...  Watch especially the sections where he's playing in the summer and the parts where they talk about him working on his game.  There is more to his O than we presume.  He also comes across as much more of a success story than the "white boy" incident would have us believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DTyLdS-Ea4

So this video is a well made piece of propaganda about how this gritty underdog made it to the NBA and has carved himself out a niche by working harder than everyone else, never giving up, and basically refusing to lose. If that's who he is, great. 

But, in the playoffs against the Mavericks, he seemed to me to be the least prepared player on either team, physically. I came away from the series thinking he was pretty lazy and had let his team down. I couldn't believe Rivers kept playing him. 

If he ends up being the player from the video, the guy who won 6th man of the year, I will probably like it. I agree with the Amick thinking about how his game fits. I had my heart set on a guy who's MORE athletic than DFS and KP, not less, but I can't deny that there's some potential synergy there, and while I think the "we need an enforcer" angle is WAY overblown, he would bring an edge to the team that could be a positive IF he is the high energy guy they're making him out to be. 

If what the Mavs are looking for is a second big who can try to pretend to play wing, and not a second wing who can pretend to play big (which is what I'd be looking for next to KP) then this might make some sense for them, though in THAT set of circumstances, I'd actually prefer someone like @"Kammrath"'s favorite prospect, Tyler Bey. Since I haven't been watching the draft thread with this type of player in mind, I suspect that I've overlooked some other prospects more appropriate at #18 who could give you what you'd get from Harrell, too.

We still don't even know whether the Mavs really like this guy, tbh, but IF these rumors are true, it seems pretty clear that DP's job is on the chopping block, because this dude would absolutely be taking it. My thinking has always been that they need a slightly longer, tougher version of DFS to play WITH DFS and KP in the front court, and that their second big, be it Powell or WCS or whomever, would come off of the bench to basically only play the 5. You'd still have Kleber on the bench, too, so you'd have options to play very big, but that Powell/WCS dude wouldn't have to be a highly paid player. 

If THIS is an option they like, it means they want to start (and usually end) games with TWO BIGS, and that changes everything, imo. It means I'll have to rethink a lot of things.

(09-27-2020, 10:44 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020, 10:02 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]So, you are softening up a little.  Hmmm.  OK, try this...  Watch especially the sections where he's playing in the summer and the parts where they talk about him working on his game.  There is more to his O than we presume.  He also comes across as much more of a success story than the "white boy" incident would have us believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DTyLdS-Ea4

So this video is a well made piece of propaganda about how this gritty underdog made it to the NBA and has carved himself out a niche by working harder than everyone else, never giving up, and basically refusing to lose. If that's who he is, great. 

But, in the playoffs against the Mavericks, he seemed to me to be the least prepared player on either team, physically. I came away from the series thinking he was pretty lazy and had let his team down. I couldn't believe Rivers kept playing him. 

If he ends up being the player from the video, the guy who won 6th man of the year, I will probably like it. I agree with the Amick thinking about how his game fits. I had my heart set on a guy who's MORE athletic than DFS and KP, not less, but I can't deny that there's some potential synergy there, and while I think the "we need an enforcer" angle is WAY overblown, he would bring an edge to the team that could be a positive IF he is the high energy guy they're making him out to be. 

If what the Mavs are looking for is a second big who can try to pretend to play wing, and not a second wing who can pretend to play big (which is what I'd be looking for next to KP) then this might make some sense for them, though in THAT set of circumstances, I'd actually prefer someone like @"Kammrath"'s favorite prospect, Tyler Bey. Since I haven't been watching the draft thread with this type of player in mind, I suspect that I've overlooked some other prospects more appropriate at #18 who could give you what you'd get from Harrell, too.

We still don't even know whether the Mavs really like this guy, tbh, but IF these rumors are true, it seems pretty clear that DP's job is on the chopping block, because this dude would absolutely be taking it. My thinking has always been that they need a slightly longer, tougher version of DFS to play WITH DFS and KP in the front court, and that their second big, be it Powell or WCS or whomever, would come off of the bench to basically only play the 5. You'd still have Kleber on the bench, too, so you'd have options to play very big, but that Powell/WCS dude wouldn't have to be a highly paid player. 

If THIS is an option they like, it means they want to start the game with TWO BIGS, and that changes everything, imo. It means I'll have to rethink a lot of things.

Isaiah Stewart looks like he would probably be that guy, I like him too at #31.

@"DanSchwartzman" so we think this would probably be a sign and trade? 

I saw your Wright/WCS idea...makes some sense, but I don't know that it TRULY solves their PG issue.

Would Powell/Brunson work, money wise? I think I'd prefer that, if I'm the Clippers.

Then again, I think their biggest need is PG, but they might not agree.

---

The above is probably really dumb, because the Mavs love Brunson and probably won't make him available in a deal like this. This curveball has just short circuited my brain, sorry. 

I do think Harrell coming in has to mean Powell going out, even if it's in a totally separate deal with a different team.

(09-27-2020, 12:15 PM)JamesConway Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/msinger/status/13102...56707?s=20

Bold move in this uncertain time for the league. 

I hope for his sake he has some assurance that Denver has a 3-4 year deal waiting for him. 

For the Mavs, I would like this so much better than Harrell.

(09-27-2020, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He was clearly among the players who sat on their couches during the stoppage

You are pushing a propaganda here to make your point. I think it was at least twice I told you he missed the bubble preparation time because of death in family.

(09-27-2020, 01:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(09-27-2020, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He was clearly among the players who sat on their couches during the stoppage

You are pushing a propaganda here to make your point. I think it was at least twice I told you he missed the bubble preparation time because of death in family.

I must've forgotten that part, sorry. I didn't omit it on purpose. 

Which family member, do you know? I don't mean to be insensitive, but what I'm talking about isn't "the preparation time" which was basically a shortened training camp. I'm saying I don't think he did a damn thing the ENTIRE time they were shut down. 

I lost my mother a few years back. It was unexpected, because she was way too young to go. That was pretty hard to deal with, and I could see something like that, mixed with the pandemic, being tough to get through. But if we're just talking about missing the bubble camp to attend the funeral of an Aunt or Uncle, idk. 

I hope I articulated that in a sensitive way.

---

@"omahen" would YOU like this addition?

Do you think Harrell fits in a vacuum? 

Do you like Dan's Wright/WCS idea? 

What if it's that deal PLUS #18 or #31? (knowing the Mavs, this has crossed my mind)

(09-27-2020, 01:08 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I must've forgotten that part, sorry. I didn't omit it on purpose. 

Which family member, do you know? I don't mean to be insensitive, but what I'm talking about isn't "the preparation time" which was basically a shortened training camp. I'm saying I don't think he did a damn thing the ENTIRE time they were shut down. 

I lost my mother a few years back. It was unexpected, because she was way too young to go. That was pretty hard to deal with, and I could see something like that, mixed with the pandemic, being tough to get through. But if we're just talking about missing the bubble camp to attend the funeral of an Aunt or Uncle, idk. 

I hope I articulated that in a sensitive way.

It was a grandmother he was very close with and he missed serious time, not just a few days to attend a funeral. 

Regarding him signing, my opinion is, I wouldn't do it for 15 mil per. I think he is too limited to be paid that kind of money. It is one thing to feast on bench units in regular season and another to be a number 3 or 4 guy on a contender. I don't think he is worth that money and I am affraid his contract would be a negative. Not to mention we already have Powell negative contract in his exact spot. 

Now, if he would come here for MLE, or perhaps a bit more in the range of Powell contract, I would be ok. We would get rid of Wright in the process and basically not lose much flexibility. Although to be honest, I am not sure how Clippers would see Wright as a positive rotation player. They need a much better PG imho.

(09-27-2020, 01:18 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] Now, if he would come here for MLE, or perhaps a bit more in the range of Powell contract, I would be ok. We would get rid of Wright in the process and basically not lose much flexibility. Although to be honest, I am not sure how Clippers would see Wright as a positive rotation player. They need a much better PG imho.

Ok, I could get behind all of this. 

My visceral reaction was based on the assumption that the player was going to get a contract along the lines of the Mavs "shooting their shot."

Honestly Harrell's offensive versatility more than makes up for his defensive deficiencies. He's also a fantastic energy dude. A guy that can rally the entire team with his constant cheering. 

With that said, he shouldn't be even top 50 in priorities this summer. He really doesn't bring anything more individually that the Mavs center by committee doesn't already have, and he is going to cost anywhere from 8-16 a year. And if the Mavs are going to choose to take on a long term contract, there are better options than Trez.

However, my interest does pique if the Mavs find a way to offload Powell and replace him with Harrell. Then this rumor and line of thinking starts to fall a bit better in line. Harrell is just elite of a roll man as Powell is (82nd percentile vs. 87th percentile). Harrell is also a more varied scorer in the post, and is a better rebounder than Powell. 

If the Mavs could secure Harrell on a contract like Powell's and simultaneously shed Wright+Powell's contract, then not only did they get an elite bench player for peanuts, they also opened up money in the future. What a freaking coup that would be. I put the chances of the Clips making such a deal as unlikely. Unless they really value another playmaker in Wright and view Powell as a suitable Harrell replacement I can't see the Mavs making off like bandits.

https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/09/27/aft...ee-agency/

For those who think Grant is available for MLE.

(09-27-2020, 05:48 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]https://nba.nbcsports.com/2020/09/27/aft...ee-agency/

For those who think Grant is available for MLE.

I wasn't one of those.

I thought Grant could've been had for around the MLE before the Laker series. After though he's shown too much. He's definitely worth a deal around 15 a year. A bit out the Mavs budget.

(09-27-2020, 06:34 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I thought Grant could've been had for around the MLE before the Laker series. After though he's shown too much. He's definitely worth a deal around 15 a year. A bit out the Mavs budget.

I think he'd be great for us at $16 mil per. Have to clear cap or do a sign and trade. He would be our third best player (barring any other acquisitions) whether THJ was retained or not. Perfect for our system.

If the question is "which guy would you rather pay $16 million" I'd go with Grant. I definitely don't like Harrell for that money. I kind of don't like Grant at that price, either, because it just feels like you're painting yourself into a corner, and while I like the player and the style of play implications (for the team) that come with him, I feel like he'd have to take another step forward to live up to that contract, and I can't swear that he will. He might, but might not. 

Still, Grant WILL get that deal from Denver or someone else, and I don't know that it's clear what Harrell gets yet, so: 

I don't want to be accused of flip-flopping, but IF Harrell is around MLE money, and IF Wright is outgoing in the deal, and IF there are no picks outgoing, and IF they have another way to dump Powell (whose job would be gone, I assume) then I could be talked into the Harrell option, as it leaves you with more flexibility and you probably don't have to start Harrell every night unless you want to.

Crazy times.

(09-27-2020, 07:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If the question is "which guy would you rather pay $16 million" I'd go with Grant. I definitely don't like Harrell for that money.

Pretty sure all front offices feel that way.

Maybe some dumbass player analysts like Paul Pierce or Shaq would take the bigger name guy.  Harrell got exposed hard.  Can't play defense and can't shoot.  So basically the opposite of what every team wants next to their star players.  Grant meanwhile fits that mold to a tee.

(09-27-2020, 07:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If the question is "which guy would you rather pay $16 million" I'd go with Grant. I definitely don't like Harrell for that money. I kind of don't like Grant at that price, either, because it just feels like you're painting yourself into a corner, and while I like the player and the style of play implications (for the team) that come with him, I feel like he'd have to take another step forward to live up to that contract, and I can't swear that he will. He might, but might not. 

Still, Grant WILL get that deal from Denver or someone else, and I don't know that it's clear what Harrell gets yet, so: 

I don't want to be accused of flip-flopping, but IF Harrell is around MLE money, and IF Wright is outgoing in the deal, and IF there are no picks outgoing, and IF they have another way to dump Powell (whose job would be gone, I assume) then I could be talked into the Harrell option, as it leaves you with more flexibility and you probably don't have to start Harrell every night unless you want to.

Crazy times.

Welcome to the dark side (you flip flopper ).

I don't think the "who would you rather pay $16mm" question is the right question.  For me the answer is neither.  I think both are going to get a little north of the MLE, but at $16mm you are getting close to doubling it.  But with Harrell, there is at least a perception of a need for Wright in LA and a quote from a commentator who believes he's a fit.  As I said before, I found another LAC based article that mentioned WCS as a target.  When you combine Wright and WCS, $16mm is the max Harrell could sign for.  It doesn't mean that is what he'll get.  With Denver there is no thought they would take what we're selling in exchange for Grant.

To put your mind at ease, I don't see how picks can be included in a Harrell deal.  He's totally free and Dallas isn't going to draft for LAC on the hope Harrell signs here (we've seen a Clipper FA, whats the word I'm looking for...flip flop...on us before after agreeing to come here). 

I'm probably not going to put your mind at ease regarding Powell.  He has no trade value right now.  A year from now?  Maybe...Hopefully.  We have no idea what he will be able to do upon his return.  The best way to ease him back is as a bench player...the fourth big behind KP, Harrell and Maxi (who thankfully can play next to either KP or Harrell).  Powell's $11mm is dead money this year.  Realistically, who cares.  We don't have cap room in 2020 anyway and we aren't close to the LT.  Harrell's money has nothing to do with Powell's.  But if Powell isn't 100% yet, the position is a position of need.  KP won't play 82 games (bold prediction).  Boban is fun and all, but he isn't an every night solution and you can't go into the season with Maxi as your only viable big on certain nights (we saw that movie in the playoffs).  There is an argument to be made that you could find someone half as good as Harrell for 1/8th the price (in fact you have that now with WCS).  But did that get Wright off the roster too?  I'm really surprised on a board that so thoroughly hates both Powell and Wright that a solution that pushes Powell back on the depth chart and removes Wright completely (and preserves draft picks and the MLE) isn't more heartily embraced.