MavsBoard

I’ll say this: if ATL signs Hayward, then Dallas didn’t want him at the price it takes.

in fact the only way to force Carlisle to use the rookies is to fill the roster with as many rookies as we can. could cost us some wins but could pay dividends later on. classic buy low sell high scheme. of course Mavs wouldnt do that. They are too fixated in the notion that other teams will just dump their assets in exchange for our garbage like the KP trade. Those things happen only rarely.

(11-06-2020, 11:34 PM)swaggerbox Wrote: [ -> ]in fact the only way to force Carlisle to use the rookies is to fill the roster with as many rookies as we can. could cost us some wins but could pay dividends later on. classic buy low sell high scheme. of course Mavs wouldnt do that. They are too fixated in the notion that other teams will just dump their assets in exchange for our garbage like the KP trade. Those things happen only rarely.

I think they’re too fixated on being good to do that.

(11-06-2020, 10:51 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas wants a 3rd star. In fact, have even called OKC for CP3 who has no interest in Dallas. Dallas due to limited resources have really been everywhere trying to make a deal. They are hoping to land Danilo in FA and they would like Dragic who I am being told is a near lock to return to MIA. The player they think they have a shot at is Evan Fournier, but it could cost them THJ for a SnT if he opts out. Dallas wants to use their MLE on a key rotation player, Christian Wood has come up as the main target in FA.

I will start by saying this: I have very big doubts this guy has real sources. I think he is guessing/making stuff up.




So the Mavs want Danilo and Dragic in FA....Fournier via SnT for THJ....AND Christian Wood as "the target" at MLE?!?!

1) These things can't all be real simultaneously like his wording implies. Mavs can't do FA, SnT, and MLE all simultaneously. 

2) Fournier is a disaster on D. I would MUCH rather just stick with the known commodity of THJ. This is a lateral move at best, backwards at worst.

3) I get the interest in Danilo and Dragic (and everyone knows the Mavs have had interest in the past). Just regurgitation.

4) I don't believe the Mavs have interest in CP3. Just making stuff up with the report the Mavs want a third star which is public knowledge.

5) I would LOVE Christian Wood for the MLE. But wonder about his fit with RC (when Wood is known to not focus on details well) and I wonder if he is available for just the MLE.

He’s not making it up, Kamm. He might not be as clued into non Hawks stuff as he thinks, but I’ve followed him closely enough to buy that he’s got a guy feeding him info.

However, he is barely literate, so I can understand your confusion with his wording. Those are the things he says they are trying to accomplish, but he is not suggesting that they will all happen simultaneously. For what it’s worth, every single word of that paragraph rings of familiarity to me.

You have to read his illiterate shorthand for a while to get the hang of it, but what he’s saying (right or wrong) is that Gallo or Dragic are their top targets, but the guy they think they can actually get is Fournier.

Dallas liking Gallo and Dragic seems believable. The Lakers having more assets than Dallas to acquire a 3rd star does not. It's a mixed bag.

I actually thought of Fournier earlier, when we were discussing Aaron Gordon, trying to envision a bigger deal. We know the Mavs like Fournier...for some reason. I feel guilty now, like I willed this hell into existence.

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(11-07-2020, 12:50 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas liking Gallo and Dragic seems believable. The Lakers having more assets than Dallas to acquire a 3rd star does not. It's a mixed bag.

oh, I don’t doubt at all that there’s some incorrect info in there. Seems like this is all third hand info being filtered through a low level hawks employee, so anything about other teams is pieced together through front office water cooler talk.

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It kind of makes sense within the scope of how Hollinger describes NBA front offices working. 

Basically, these teams all have like five or six dudes working the phones, each with a select group of teams where they have a close contact. That way, every team has a semi regular dialogue going with every other team, and the big guys generally don’t get involved until something gets close. A couple of times a week, the whole front office meets so that all these small dudes who work the phones can pass along information that they have learned through their conversations.

(11-07-2020, 12:28 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think he is guessing/making stuff up.

And thinking here is also equivalent to guessing.

Whether coming from a source, or his own thoughts, is less important. What is more important is how good and realistic these considerations are, and how can they be placed into context for discussions. A lot of the stuff coming from real sources also turns out wrong, perhaps sometimes with even higher rate than some peoples opinions.

At least I think/guess.

(11-06-2020, 11:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-06-2020, 11:34 PM)swaggerbox Wrote: [ -> ]in fact the only way to force Carlisle to use the rookies is to fill the roster with as many rookies as we can. could cost us some wins but could pay dividends later on. classic buy low sell high scheme. of course Mavs wouldnt do that. They are too fixated in the notion that other teams will just dump their assets in exchange for our garbage like the KP trade. Those things happen only rarely.

I think they’re too fixated on being good to do that.

Yeah, unlikely they even keep #18 and #31. It´s so hilarious we work ourselves up for the draft and then on Nov. 16th, when the trade window opens the Mavs will just trade their 2020 picks, Kleber, Curry and THJ to Boston for Hayward. 

(11-07-2020, 01:02 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, unlikely they even keep #18 and #31. It´s so hilarious we work ourselves up for the draft and then on Nov. 16th, when the trade window opens the Mavs will just trade their 2020 picks, Kleber, Curry and THJ to Boston for Hayward. 

would hate that deal tbh. hope not.

(11-06-2020, 11:27 PM)swaggerbox Wrote: [ -> ]Apparently, the Mavs lack of assets is hurting them. They had a chance to sign somebody last offseason but blew them. They badly need to retool this season and not wait for next season. Once CP3 is traded to MIL, Giannis will stay. Fournier would be a lateral move, would prefer THJ. Wood is young and developing. He could be a real steal. Keep on accummulating assets like that from free agency and the draft and develop them like what Miami and Denver are doing. This draft is the perfect time to stack pile on rotation players rather than signing low ceiing guys who will just ride the bench for us.

You think he signs an extension when they trade for CP3 or any trade? Not so sure about that. That is very much up in the air, when they can get a trade done. Its still title or bust, if he doesn't extend. And CP3 doesn't make them the ultra favorite, considering they have to give up a lot to get him due to his contract. Bledseo, George Hill and X prolly, maybe losing Lopez. Good luck

I think he is a little overrated right now. Yes, his season was good, but people are underrating the rest of OKC, wether its Schröder, Gallo or SGA. If he gets injured or decline further at that age, its a big risk.

that is the most likely outcome. it seems we never learn. the spurs, nuggets, celtics, heat dont do that. they develop from within. and that is the right formula for success unless you're jerry west.

(11-06-2020, 10:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]1) I sure hope Dallas isn’t that third team trying to get Oladipo, and

2) I sure hope they do better than Fournier.  I would legit rather have THJ, I think.

We know, you don't want anyone unless it is Giannis  

As for Fournier. He is a better offensive player than THJ. He posted considerably better offensive numbers both in points scored and efficiency in Orlando, where he was basically the only player able to shoot from deep and often main focus of opponent defense. Even his defensive stats are better than THJ. He is also able to drive and create for himself, at least far better than THJ. 

Interesting thing would be to use him as 6th man, where he would be a huge upgrade over Curry. Doncic, THJ, Fournier, KP would be a phenomenal offensive unit. That being said, I would not sign him for more than 15 per, as we still have huge defensive holes to fill. I am also not really inclined of paying draft picks in a SnT, perhaps #31 and a future second. 

So here is my first proposal:
Dal: Gordon, Fournier SnT
Orl: Kleber, Curry, Wright, Jackson, #18, #31, future second.

If we need max cap space in 2021, we only need to trade expiring Gordon, which shouldn't be difficult. 

Second one:
Curry, Jackson #31, future second for Fournier SnT. 

I doubt any would be interesting for Orlando.

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(11-07-2020, 12:28 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]These things can't all be real simultaneously like his wording implies.

You missunderstood. He is not saying they want all, they are just checking. Making stuff up or not, what he says about Mavs is totally believable. They are working on all possible angles to improve. Since our assets are meh, we have difficulty getting in serious discussions for good players.

(11-07-2020, 12:28 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]4) I don't believe the Mavs have interest in CP3. Just making stuff up with the report the Mavs want a third star which is public knowledge.

I totally believe about CP3. It doesn't say they are working on a deal, it says they inquired. I mean, if I was GM, I would also inquire if OKC would trade CP3 for LEE SnT and a minor asset, which would save them 40 mil next season. It doesn't mean this will happen.

(11-07-2020, 04:57 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-06-2020, 10:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]1) I sure hope Dallas isn’t that third team trying to get Oladipo, and

2) I sure hope they do better than Fournier.  I would legit rather have THJ, I think.

We know, you don't want anyone unless it is Giannis  

As for Fournier. He is a better offensive player than THJ. He posted considerably better offensive numbers both in points scored and efficiency in Orlando, where he was basically the only player able to shoot from deep and often main focus of opponent defense. Even his defensive stats are better than THJ. He is also able to drive and create for himself, at least far better than THJ. 

Interesting thing would be to use him as 6th man, where he would be a huge upgrade over Curry. Doncic, THJ, Fournier, KP would be a phenomenal offensive unit. That being said, I would not sign him for more than 15 per, as we still have huge defensive holes to fill. I am also not really inclined of paying draft picks in a SnT, perhaps #31 and a future second. 

So here is my first proposal:
Dal: Gordon, Fournier SnT
Orl: Kleber, Curry, Wright, Jackson, #18, #31, future second.

If we need max cap space in 2021, we only need to trade expiring Gordon, which shouldn't be difficult. 

Second one:
Curry, Jackson #31, future second for Fournier SnT. 

I doubt any would be interesting for Orlando.

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(11-07-2020, 12:28 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]These things can't all be real simultaneously like his wording implies.

You missunderstood. He is not saying they want all, they are just checking. Making stuff up or not, what he says about Mavs is totally believable. They are working on all possible angles to improve. Since our assets are meh, we have difficulty getting in serious discussions for good players.

(11-07-2020, 12:28 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]4) I don't believe the Mavs have interest in CP3. Just making stuff up with the report the Mavs want a third star which is public knowledge.

I totally believe about CP3. It doesn't say they are working on a deal, it says they inquired. I mean, if I was GM, I would also inquire if OKC would trade CP3 for LEE SnT and a minor asset, which would save them 40 mil next season. It doesn't mean this will happen.

I don't think we are looking for a trade with equal player value.
We need a tradepartner who needs something else or a tradetarget with surpressed value. 

Oladipo could fit, but Indy seems still looking for a "good" trade.

Please no. He is really not something we need.

(11-07-2020, 06:01 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think we are looking for a trade with equal player value.

I agree. That's why I proposed Curry for Fournier, which is a big upgrade imho.

(11-07-2020, 06:27 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]

 CP3´s best buddy. More social media overreactions.

One thing is for sure. If the trade window opens on Nov 16th, there will be an explosion of news.

I bet the NBA told teams that tampering is okay under the circumstances, but if somebody announces anything before the officially set dates, they get major fines (money and 1st round picks). 

If Melo was really coming to Dallas that means we either offered him the full MLE or he already knows we have moves lined up to make it worth for him to sign for the minimum.

Knicks meltdown if they get the 30th pick, while we win the title with Melo, Gallo and KP. 

(11-07-2020, 12:38 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He’s not making it up, Kamm. He might not be as clued into non Hawks stuff as he thinks, but I’ve followed him closely enough to buy that he’s got a guy feeding him info.

However, he is barely literate, so I can understand your confusion with his wording. Those are the things he says they are trying to accomplish, but he is not suggesting that they will all happen simultaneously. For what it’s worth, every single word of that paragraph rings of familiarity to me.

You have to read his illiterate shorthand for a while to get the hang of it, but what he’s saying (right or wrong) is that Gallo or Dragic are their top targets, but the guy they think they can actually get is Fournier.

Hmmm. Do you have any examples of his ramblings being accurate that you can share with us? How long has he been doing this?

As it relates to Fournier, I can see the interest.  He brings more play-making and off-ball movement than THJ which would add some diversity to the O.  He's top 10 in total possessions for play types in hand-offs and off screens.  So, he's good at a couple of things that we need that THJ isn't good at.  At the same time, he's not too much of a drop-off from THJ on the things THJ is good at.  

FWIW, Partow's top 125 has Fournier at 102 while both Curry and THJ are in the 120's.  PIPM and Raptor like THJ better (last year, a career year for THJ).  Box +/- favors Fournier.  I think a THJ deal is roughly equivalent from a talent standpoint, but gives us a little more playmaking from the SG position.  The upgrade is more clear with Curry (you'd have to add some salary).

Hollinger projected Wood's salary at $15.8mm and said Charlotte may make a bid using cap room.  So, it is hard to see Dallas getting him for the MLE.  The route to go over the MLE probably includes shipping out Maxi.  Wood is a clear talent upgrade which will hopefully satisfy the "Never Maxi-ers".  Getting Maxi is certainly better than losing Wood to Charlotte for nothing.  Again, more salary would need to be added.  Detroit makes some sense for a Wright destination.

So, Curry/Jackson for Fournier and Maxi/Wright for Wood?  DFS to the bench.

KP/WCS
Wood/Powell
THJ/DFS
Fournier/18
Luka/Brunson

(11-07-2020, 08:09 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have any examples of his ramblings being accurate that you can share with us?

He is not playing Woj, he is not saying what is done. He is writing what is being discussed. You can also call it rumors, if you prefer. Who cares if they are correct or not. It is something to discuss, get new ideas.

(11-07-2020, 08:28 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]As it relates to Fournier, I can see the interest.  He brings more play-making and off-ball movement than THJ which would add some diversity to the O.  He's top 10 in total possessions for play types in hand-offs and off screens.  So, he's good at a couple of things that we need that THJ isn't good at.  At the same time, he's not too much of a drop-off from THJ on the things THJ is good at.  

FWIW, Partow's top 125 has Fournier at 102 while both Curry and THJ are in the 120's.  PIPM and Raptor like THJ better (last year, a career year for THJ).  Box +/- favors Fournier.  I think a THJ deal is roughly equivalent from a talent standpoint, but gives us a little more playmaking from the SG position.  The upgrade is more clear with Curry (you'd have to add some salary).

Hollinger projected Wood's salary at $15.8mm and said Charlotte may make a bid using cap room.  So, it is hard to see Dallas getting him for the MLE.  The route to go over the MLE probably includes shipping out Maxi.  Wood is a clear talent upgrade which will hopefully satisfy the "Never Maxi-ers".  Getting Maxi is certainly better than losing Wood to Charlotte for nothing.  Again, more salary would need to be added.  Detroit makes some sense for a Wright destination.

So, Curry/Jackson for Fournier and Maxi/Wright for Wood?  DFS to the bench.

KP/WCS
Wood/Powell
THJ/DFS
Fournier/18
Luka/Brunson

I think Wood would be fantastic.  Like to keep Curry if possible.