(09-10-2020, 05:30 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:17 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Only way to get to Jrue from the Mavs would have to be a package with THJ IMO, for the simple fact that salaries have to match. THJ and Brunson works actually for salary purposes and then we can figure out additional assets like picks and such. Brunson and THJ on their team wouldn't be bad, but I think they would probably be able to get a package elsewhere and from a team that they don't have to compete with before Jrue hangs them up.
I was just looking at Hardaway, an Opt-in WCS and Brunson. Plus the picks 18, 31 and our 2025 1st. I would like to get back Jrue and their 2 2nd rnd picks, 39 and 42.
Is this still to lite?
I love Jrue for the Mavs, but I probably need a better player than him to give up '25.
(09-10-2020, 05:34 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:30 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:17 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Only way to get to Jrue from the Mavs would have to be a package with THJ IMO, for the simple fact that salaries have to match. THJ and Brunson works actually for salary purposes and then we can figure out additional assets like picks and such. Brunson and THJ on their team wouldn't be bad, but I think they would probably be able to get a package elsewhere and from a team that they don't have to compete with before Jrue hangs them up.
I was just looking at Hardaway, an Opt-in WCS and Brunson. Plus the picks 18, 31 and our 2025 1st. I would like to get back Jrue and their 2 2nd rnd picks, 39 and 42.
Is this still to lite?
I love Jrue for the Mavs, but I probably need a better player than him to give up '25.
OK, wave our 2025 and take off there two 2nd rnd picks. THJ, WCS, JB plus 18 and 31?
(09-10-2020, 05:34 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:30 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:17 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Only way to get to Jrue from the Mavs would have to be a package with THJ IMO, for the simple fact that salaries have to match. THJ and Brunson works actually for salary purposes and then we can figure out additional assets like picks and such. Brunson and THJ on their team wouldn't be bad, but I think they would probably be able to get a package elsewhere and from a team that they don't have to compete with before Jrue hangs them up.
I was just looking at Hardaway, an Opt-in WCS and Brunson. Plus the picks 18, 31 and our 2025 1st. I would like to get back Jrue and their 2 2nd rnd picks, 39 and 42.
Is this still to lite?
I love Jrue for the Mavs, but I probably need a better player than him to give up '25.
That pick is likely to be in the mid 20s. Not much value around the league. You can buy a pick that late most draft nights.
(09-10-2020, 05:42 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:34 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:30 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 05:17 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Only way to get to Jrue from the Mavs would have to be a package with THJ IMO, for the simple fact that salaries have to match. THJ and Brunson works actually for salary purposes and then we can figure out additional assets like picks and such. Brunson and THJ on their team wouldn't be bad, but I think they would probably be able to get a package elsewhere and from a team that they don't have to compete with before Jrue hangs them up.
I was just looking at Hardaway, an Opt-in WCS and Brunson. Plus the picks 18, 31 and our 2025 1st. I would like to get back Jrue and their 2 2nd rnd picks, 39 and 42.
Is this still to lite?
I love Jrue for the Mavs, but I probably need a better player than him to give up '25.
That pick is likely to be in the mid 20s. Not much value around the league. You can buy a pick that late most draft nights.
You're presuming we still have Luka.
Just played around with the trade machine and the Pelicans have some awesome salary matches for the Mavs.
Jrue Holiday (26.1) + Lonzo Ball (11) --> THJ (19) + Seth Curry (7.8) + Wright (9) + #18 + 2025 1st
Make it even bigger with a sign and trade:
Derrick Favors (4/50) --> Powell (10.1) + #31 + future 2nd
Mavs go all in on Holiday and take a look at Lonzo Ball. If he fits next to Luka they can go over the cap to resign him in 2021.
Mavs upgrade Powell and add a starting PF/C that can play next to KP in the Powell role or play at center in a single big lineup.
(09-10-2020, 06:42 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Seth must stay.
Among role players DFS, Maxi and Seth are without a doubt in the only trade if you get a legit 2nd or 3rd option in return category.
Thing is that you have to give up something to get something. For the right player everyone not named Luka or KP is on the table. For a player like Giannis even KP is.
Lonzo has been on my reclamation project wish list. I think you could turn him into a 3D guy and he also has the ability to be a secondary/tertiary ball handler alongside Luka. As much as I like Seth, if he's your path to Jrue, I like the gamble. To a lesser extent, he has a little bit of THJ in him with how streaky he can be.
People are under-appreciating Jalen Brunson. I love me some Brunson and I would not move him for Jrue, as much as I love Jrue. One reason is because I don't know that other teams value him as much as the Mavs due so the team getting him would not consider JB a big prize. I also just love JB's fit on this team, I do not want to move him unless I really have to.
Jrue would be an awesome move but there will be some competition. The Warriors for one might give up the #2 pick. I think Aaron Gordon might make more sense for them that Jrue but who knows what they think.
For the Mavs I would give up expirings (THJ, JJ) + #18, #31 and might be able to to THJ + Seth and picks instead if I really thought it was going to help solidify the 3rd guy. Mind you this is probably a post-Giannis move but Jrue could very well opt-out in 2021 or be easily movable if he did opt-in. So even if you got Jrue now it doesn't preclude you from a Hail-Mary Giannis attempt in 2021.
Moving Seth would also clear up more cap space. I am not sure Pels would require Seth or not but he is an asset they might desire. The Pels don't have a lot of outside shooting and JJ Redick is 36 so they might view Seth as an upgrade. At any rate I think Jrue would be a clear upgrade over Seth so you'd have to consider it.
(09-10-2020, 06:56 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Lonzo has been on my reclamation project wish list. I think you could turn him into a 3D guy and he also has the ability to be a secondary/tertiary ball handler alongside Luka. As much as I like Seth, if he's your path to Jrue, I like the gamble. To a lesser extent, he has a little bit of THJ in him with how streaky he can be.
I love Seth and do not want to trade him but it might cost a player of his caliber to get a 3rd reliable starter. Curry is the same age as Jrue and both have an injury history. I think Trey Burke could have some potential to replace some of what Curry does (altho they also play really well together so it'd be nice to have both players) and is 27. I doubt Curry gets traded because the Mavs love him but anything is possible if you want a big upgrade on this roster.
(09-10-2020, 05:48 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You're presuming we still have Luka.
Pretty safe bet in that no RFA has ever turned down a max contract and so Luka would still be in that window. I think his deal would come in 2022 and max contracts are usually 4+1 so that would extend through 2025.
If Giannis resigns the extension in the next few weeks or months with the Bucks, who is the realistic target then for 2021?
I see no realistic option for us as here is the list of the top 10 free agents.
The only guy on this list is Victor Oladipo who if he is our best chance then we need to try and get him now vs. later. The others guys on this list do not fit the Luka timeline and are not realistic options.
10. Victor Oladipo, Indiana Pacers
9. Gordon Hayward, Boston Celtics
8. DeMar DeRozan, San Antonio Spurs
7. Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans
6. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
5. Paul George, Los Angeles Clippers
4. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers
3. LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers
2. Kawhi Leonard, Los Angeles Clippers
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
This is one of the reasons why I want to trade up into the lottery and draft someone. I do not want to overpay for anyone
No interest in Oladipo. Jrue or Gobert would be my picks. No idea if Gobert would fit the team, but he should word help on the defensive end if Luka continues to struggle on that end of the court.
There are teams that may want to blow it up in the next few years: Portland, Houston, San Antonio, OKC, Detroit, Philly, Chicago, Washington, Orlando. I guess the point is you shouldn't just look at who is a free agent as there is a lot more opportunity than that.
(09-10-2020, 06:56 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Lonzo has been on my reclamation project wish list. I think you could turn him into a 3D guy and he also has the ability to be a secondary/tertiary ball handler alongside Luka. As much as I like Seth, if he's your path to Jrue, I like the gamble. To a lesser extent, he has a little bit of THJ in him with how streaky he can be.
I love Lonzo the player, and I wouldn't even call him a "reclamation project" because yeah, he's not what he was hyped up to be, but he's progressing about as fast as most rookies do. It's not like he's Fultz.
But, sadly, I don't think I'd have him on my team at any price if I were a GM. It's not that he can't help you, because he can, but I'd want no part of that awful, terrible, distracting father.
(09-10-2020, 08:26 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]If Giannis resigns the extension in the next few weeks or months with the Bucks, who is the realistic target then for 2021?
I see no realistic option for us as here is the list of the top 10 free agents.
The only guy on this list is Victor Oladipo who if he is our best chance then we need to try and get him now vs. later. The others guys on this list do not fit the Luka timeline and are not realistic options.
10. Victor Oladipo, Indiana Pacers
9. Gordon Hayward, Boston Celtics
8. DeMar DeRozan, San Antonio Spurs
7. Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans
6. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
5. Paul George, Los Angeles Clippers
4. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers
3. LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers
2. Kawhi Leonard, Los Angeles Clippers
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
This is one of the reasons why I want to trade up into the lottery and draft someone. I do not want to overpay for anyone
I agree this list isn't super without Giannis on it, as many of the other top names won't be available, but...if Oladipo bounces back this year, I'd be all about it, and tbh, I'd like to see the NEXT 10 guys on the list.
(09-10-2020, 10:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 06:56 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Lonzo has been on my reclamation project wish list. I think you could turn him into a 3D guy and he also has the ability to be a secondary/tertiary ball handler alongside Luka. As much as I like Seth, if he's your path to Jrue, I like the gamble. To a lesser extent, he has a little bit of THJ in him with how streaky he can be.
I love Lonzo the player, and I wouldn't even call him a "reclamation project" because yeah, he's not what he was hyped up to be, but he's progressing about as fast as most rookies do. It's not like he's Fultz.
But, sadly, I don't think I'd have him on my team at any price if I were a GM. It's not that he can't help you, because he can, but I'd want no part of that awful, terrible, distracting father.
He has seemed to distance himself from BBB and his father. His father has also seemed to tone down his shenanigans, but maybe that's in part to Lonzo's stock falling or maybe because his dad is now focused on ruining LaMelo's career.
Houston is imploding.
They had such a terrible showing against OKC. A series they should've lost. Now they're straight up quitting against the Lakers. Harden is once again shitting the bed in crucial games. 21 points on 2-11 FG. Dude had 20 freaking freethrows. Harden in Game 7 against OKC: 17 points, 4/15 from the field. 1/9 from 3. 8/9 from the line.
Dude otherwise has been pretty freaking incredible (31ppg on 48/35/85) in the playoffs. Just for whatever reason he cannot show up in big games.
Does Houston blow it all up this summer? Their new owner is hemorrhaging for money and has done everything he can to avoid paying money when need be. The Westbrook experiment by all accounts was underwhelming for them.
If I'm the Mavs I'd see what'd it take for RoCo or Tucker. Perfect role players here. And I am really curious to see if the Rockets trade Harden and what kind of packages they'd want. I'd imagine they could fleece NYK for all of their picks and young players.
(09-10-2020, 10:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-10-2020, 06:56 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Lonzo has been on my reclamation project wish list. I think you could turn him into a 3D guy and he also has the ability to be a secondary/tertiary ball handler alongside Luka. As much as I like Seth, if he's your path to Jrue, I like the gamble. To a lesser extent, he has a little bit of THJ in him with how streaky he can be.
I love Lonzo the player, and I wouldn't even call him a "reclamation project" because yeah, he's not what he was hyped up to be, but he's progressing about as fast as most rookies do. It's not like he's Fultz.
But, sadly, I don't think I'd have him on my team at any price if I were a GM. It's not that he can't help you, because he can, but I'd want no part of that awful, terrible, distracting father.
(09-10-2020, 08:26 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]If Giannis resigns the extension in the next few weeks or months with the Bucks, who is the realistic target then for 2021?
I see no realistic option for us as here is the list of the top 10 free agents.
The only guy on this list is Victor Oladipo who if he is our best chance then we need to try and get him now vs. later. The others guys on this list do not fit the Luka timeline and are not realistic options.
10. Victor Oladipo, Indiana Pacers
9. Gordon Hayward, Boston Celtics
8. DeMar DeRozan, San Antonio Spurs
7. Jrue Holiday, New Orleans Pelicans
6. Rudy Gobert, Utah Jazz
5. Paul George, Los Angeles Clippers
4. Anthony Davis, Los Angeles Lakers
3. LeBron James, Los Angeles Lakers
2. Kawhi Leonard, Los Angeles Clippers
1. Giannis Antetokounmpo, Milwaukee Bucks
This is one of the reasons why I want to trade up into the lottery and draft someone. I do not want to overpay for anyone
I agree this list isn't super without Giannis on it, as many of the other top names won't be available, but...if Oladipo bounces back this year, I'd be all about it, and tbh, I'd like to see the NEXT 10 guys on the list.
Really olds, RFAs, Adams and Otto Porter.
By the way, to me Oladipo is the worst fit ever after Westbrook or Harden. He is like a more expensive Wright.
(09-11-2020, 12:53 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Really olds, RFAs, Adams and Otto Porter.
Well... If I ignore the olds, you have plenty of very interesting starters available:
OPJ
Schroeder
Fournier
Oubre
Barton
Dinwiddie
Richardson
(09-11-2020, 01:14 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-11-2020, 12:53 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Really olds, RFAs, Adams and Otto Porter.
Well... If I ignore the olds, you have plenty of very interesting starters available:
OPJ
Schroeder
Fournier
Oubre
Barton
Dinwiddie
Richardson
We might get them earlier and cheaper than waiting and freeing up capspace for them.
I really think I like this years candidates for the MLE + keeping our assets better.
Oh and I like using the MLE and the not in our plan assets to get one of them best.
I pulled out my trusty spreadsheet so I could play around with the 2021 cap impact of some of our ideas. A few thoughts:
A S/W of Wright in 21 would cost $2.8mm and save $5.7mm. Are we sure we want to pay to trade him somewhere? I mean, maybe if that someone is expiring and we can save the $2.8mm. One of the benefits of trading Wright for T. Young (or Satoransky) is the fact they are only partially guaranteed. But partial guarantee is more expensive than the S/W and don't help with a Plan Powder scenario.
THJ will probably wait until after the draft to exercise his option. So, all of these THJ plus a pick deals are probably not going to happen. If he extends, he would have to agree to an extend and trade.
I think #18 will make $2,597,000 in 21. If the team uses part of the MLE to sign #31, I think that will cost about $1,738,571. If WCS opts in for 20, his 2021 cap hold will be $2,972,264 (very valuable to control him for this small amount...to him and us). That is about $7.3mm for those guys. Add Brunson and it is $9mm for the two picks, WCS and Brunson (again assuming WCS opts in). I think the odds of Giannis moving by trade (Jimmy Butler) are much greater than by signing into cap space. If so, low cost value contracts are important.
The following calculations assume we make both picks and keep the hold on WCS:
If we remove THJ from the cap and S/W Wright, we have about $36mm in cap room in 2021 on a $125mm cap (there is certainly a risk the cap will be less than that).
If we put THJ down for $15mm and S/W Wright we have about $22mm in room. Trade Wright for an expiring deal and we have about $25mm in room.
Here's the rub with Plan Powder. If we hold out for max space, we are basically trading 1. THJ, the 2. the 2020 MLE and 3. an alternate player we could trade for in 2020 for that max player. Other than Giannis, who are we willing to make that deal for? If the idea is to add a $20mm player in 2021 (while retaining THJ), couldn't we try to spend that same money (through trade) in 2020? OPJ is on the list as a potential good starter among 2021 FA's. Why not get him a year early. Is there a path to FVV or Bogdanovic through S&T AND then still be able to use the MLE? Short of Giannis, I don't see giving up THJ for two $17mm players in 2021 as one will simply replace THJ.
I think the better plan, once I looked at the numbers, is Plan Powder Be Damned. You have Wright, Jackson and Lee who can be combined for a pretty large contract (thank you Tyler). I would probably look at Lee at about $8mm (basically $5mm from Cuban and the Vet Min combined so that the net cost would be Vet Min to the acquiring team). That gets you into the range of a lot of the big dollar trade names we've discussed (or FA's like FVV and Bogdan). We have plenty of stand still shooters (THJ and Curry) and traditional bigs (KP, Maxi, Powell and presumably WCS). We need a playmaker who can also play off the ball and cover the other team's best guard (a better Wright or a better Burke). And, we need a Power Wing who defends and hits 3's (a better DFS so that DFS can be a super sub). Add those two guys and this is top 3/4 right now. Other than Giannis, what is the point in waiting?
(09-11-2020, 08:19 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Other than Giannis, what is the point in waiting?
The only way I see Giannis joining us is via S&T.
(09-11-2020, 08:19 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Other than Giannis, what is the point in waiting?
Exactly. And if Giannis wants to come, no one will care if we spend 2025 and 2027 picks to get rid of unwanted salaries, if needed. Keep the core, upgrade Wright and Jackson contracts with one good player (use picks if needed) and sign someone good for MLE.