MavsBoard

(11-05-2020, 11:45 PM)chaparral Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-05-2020, 11:23 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-05-2020, 11:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]So.... everyone's out on Aaron Gordon? At one point, he was one of my favorite Mav targets.

It really depends on the price for me. But I'm very very interested in him still. If you aren't going to trade for or sign Griffin next summer, AG is my #1 PF target. Move DFS back to SF. I'm also not opposed to keeping him at the 4 and getting a legit 3. 

I wonder if their is a deal where Mavs can trade for AG and 15 with 18 going to Orlando. Obviously including something else but wonder if that could happen in a deal.

Would you do Kleber, Wright, 18 and 31 for Gordon, 15 and 45?  Mavs would actually save money in 21/22.

Yes I would. 

The theory on AG is pretty simple. He's always had good offensive metrics in area where Dwight Powell has good metrics like PNR. But he doesn't nearly enough plays for him ran despite getting starter minutes compared to Powell. Powell has way more volume as bench player in those areas. 

They basically use AG as a guy to camp out on the perimeter and spot up shoot. And he's about as an effective shooter as Powell but shoots way more 3s a game. In Dallas he would be heavy utilized as a PNR and cutter both of which he consistently has elite #s at in advanced metrics. Like 90th percentile. If Dallas likes Dwight, AG is him on steroids with way higher upside. It's an easy move to make if its so cheap and you do indeed love Powell's game if you are the MBT.

(11-06-2020, 09:03 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Another interesting piece from The Athletic this morning.  It asks the question whether hoarding space til 2021.  It divides things into categories and Dallas is mentioned a lot.

1.  Yes, if you have a credible shot at an elite FA.

They define elite as GA, Davis and Lebron.  Dallas is listed in a tier behind Miami and Toronto in this regard


2.  Yes, if one of the second tier FA's really moves the needle for you

Second tier is defined as Jrue, Gobert and Dipo.  Dallas is mentioned as a team that would benefit from Jrue or Dipo joining the team


3.  Yes, if it is a cover for saving money

Thankfully Dallas isn't mentioned in this category.

Lebron is old, Davis isn't going anywhere, and there's a decent chance all three of Jrue/Gobert/Dipo are dealt before they hit free agency. So the way I interpret it Dallas has good reason to keep space for Giannis, but if he agrees to an extension in Milwaukee they'd be better off ditching plan powder and aggressively pursuing guys now. 

Which sounds kinda like the mixed rumors we've been hearing anyway.

(11-06-2020, 10:46 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]The theory on AG is pretty simple. He's always had good offensive metrics in area where Dwight Powell has good metrics like PNR. But he doesn't nearly enough plays for him ran despite getting starter minutes compared to Powell. Powell has way more volume as bench player in those areas. 

They basically use AG as a guy to camp out on the perimeter and spot up shoot. And he's about as an effective shooter as Powell but shoots way more 3s a game. In Dallas he would be heavy utilized as a PNR and cutter both of which he consistently has elite #s at in advanced metrics. Like 90th percentile. If Dallas likes Dwight, AG is him on steroids with way higher upside. It's an easy move to make if its so cheap and you do indeed love Powell's game if you are the MBT.

Ok, so I buy all of that, and I can tell you've done your homework on the guy. Here's the counter argument:

Fans tend to love super athletic guys like Gordon, even when they don't do all that well. Now, maybe you're right and Orlando is simply not implementing the player in an ideal way. But, the guys who work there are not morons, they're people whose entire lives revolve around professional basketball. I don't think "they don't know how to use him" should be our default position when he doesn't seem to play as well as we believe he should. I think it's a POSSIBLE explanation, but maybe not the most likely one. I mean, if you've been an exec in Orlando for the past several years, you've kind of been in the Aaron Gordon business, trying desperately to unlock the dude's potential. Their inability to do so is a big reason the franchise isn't in a great place right now.

A more plausible argument that's close to yours would be the glaring absence of a pick and roll ball handler on the roster. For whatever reason, they've really struggled to find a PG there, pretty much since Jameer Nelson signed in Dallas years ago. That is bizarre, for sure, and probably has a negative impact on several of their players. 

But in my humble opinion, what we're dealing with in Gordon is a dumb guy. It doesn't get talked about very much, and when it does it's usually framed in a nicer way, but my first thought anytime I see an underperforming NBA player with a lot of athletic ability (the kind that teams covet) is "that guy doesn't get it, does he?" 

What got me thinking this way initially was a Don Nelson quote about Raef Lafrentz back in the day. It was something like "for whatever reason, anytime we try to run something for him, he just finds a way to forget how to run the play." I'm paraphrasing from memory, but it was very close to that.

My overall point is that intelligence and focus matter in pro basketball, much like they matter in pro ANYTHING. How do we, as fans, judge this attribute in players? Really tough to do, though I feel pretty strongly that when players we expected big things from don't get the anticipated results (or even the anticipated playing time) that's kind of the smoke that comes from the "not smart enough" fire. Another indicator is when a player starts bouncing around from team to team a lot, though there could also be other reasons for this, obviously. 

Look, I clearly don't KNOW this about Gordon, and I could be 100% wrong. But it's interesting that the guy has been getable for 2-3 years now and nobody seems super into bringing him onto a good team. Maybe that's because Orlando has valued him too highly, but idk...I just have a feeling he's not very good.

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Having said all of the above, Gordon would certainly be above Tobias Harris on my list, but probably under Gobert, tbh. I believe strongly in my opinion that KP/Gobert is not a fit, but it's undeniable that Gobert is an impact player in the NBA. The same cannot be said for Gordon.

(11-06-2020, 11:07 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so I buy all of that, and I can tell you've done your homework on the guy. Here's the counter argument:

One thing in his excuse - best point guard he played with was arguably DJ Augustine.

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Guys discuss Jrue trades and they also get to Dallas chances. They don't see us having a realistic chance. They see Brooklyn with LeVert as frontrunners, followed by Denver. They see huge value in GS #2 pick and they wouldn't do Wiggins+#2 for Jrue and #13 from GSW perspective (and also from Pelicans one). 

They think Oladipo to Dallas makes a lot of sense as his value is low enough for Dallas to match.

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/th...0497392683

I´m still leaning heavily toward taking a free youth swing this season and prepare for 2021. It just seems the smartest strategy.

For example trade #18 for #21, #31, #34 with Philly.
Trade Kleber for #26 + #30 with Boston.

Take:

Bane #21
T. Bey #26
Stewart #30
Woodward III #31
Ramsey #34
Azubuike #36

Most typical NBA readier older rookies that Carlisle will love.

Make use of the MLE by going after more younger talent in FA. Now that Kleber is gone via trade, Saric sees the clear path to be the starting PF.

Strength in numbers. No bad contracts. We are not looking for franchise players here.

I don´t like this idea to move for Hayward or Harris now. You can still move for a star next summer.

Last season we were still the 6th oldest team in the league. Get a few more age compatible players in for 12 months. Basically make it a trial year. The long-term monetary commitments would be low. Let Luka win MVP and then you make your play for Giannis, more veterans or maybe the 2021 RFA class.

Doncic 21 / Brunson 24 /
Bane 23 / Ramsey 19 /
DFS 27 / Woodward 21 /
Saric 27 / Bey 23
Porzingis 25 / Stewart 19 /Azubuike 21

That´s exactly max money territory, even at the reduced $109 cap. We´d basically become the 2020 Nuggets, only with a clear path to max money cap space.

Right now the strategies discussed are centered around trading one of Kleber (or Curry) + our trash for Harris. Does the upgrade from Kleber to Harris really push us from 1st round fodder to NBA championship contenders next season?

To me that is a clear and loud NO.

It´s clearly a timeline case for me. I don´t see any strategic advantages to making a long-term commiment move now, unless we are talking top 15-20 ish NBA player. You give yourself 12 months to actually test the health status of Porzingis, before you lock yourself into a cap hell like Harris or Hayward.

Play it smart.

Luka is ambitious, but winning MVP will do for next year. 2021/2022 is the season we need to have the team together.

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(11-06-2020, 11:18 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-06-2020, 11:07 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so I buy all of that, and I can tell you've done your homework on the guy. Here's the counter argument:

One thing in his excuse - best point guard he played with was arguably DJ Augustine.

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That´s the same case you can make for guys like Drummond or Lavine. Who the best guys they played with?

Mavs2019, I actually like your gonzo idea a great deal. You did leave out that THJ, Powell, Wright, and Curry would still be on roster, likely robbing minutes from some of the rookies.

(11-06-2020, 01:15 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs2019, I actually like your gonzo idea a great deal. You did leave out that THJ, Powell, Wright, and Curry would still be on roster, likely robbing minutes from some of the rookies.

Can't have the argument both ways. 

If the point is that there should always be an element of youth on the roster, learning, developing behind the vets to MAINTAIN the team's status as a good team in the future and avoid bottoming out, I can get there. In that way, you might have a legitimate beef with the Mavs' decision making process. 

But, if you take it to the point where you say that the vets aren't better than the rookies and more ready to play winning basketball, and that the rookies should be on the floor instead of them, you're basically saying "I'd rather have rookies in the rotation than make the playoffs." In that extreme view, I 100% lean towards the Mavs' history of thinking. 

So, in my opinion, if you want them to value non-obvious draft gold, you have to also be cool with the patience that comes with it.

(11-06-2020, 01:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-06-2020, 01:15 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs2019, I actually like your gonzo idea a great deal. You did leave out that THJ, Powell, Wright, and Curry would still be on roster, likely robbing minutes from some of the rookies.

Can't have the argument both ways.

If the point is that there should always be an element of youth on the roster, learning, developing behind the vets to MAINTAIN the team's status as a good team in the future and avoid bottoming out, I can get there. In that way, you might have a legitimate beef with the Mavs' decision making process.

But, if you take it to the point where you say that the vets aren't better than the rookies and more ready to play winning basketball, and that the rookies should be on the floor instead of them, you're basically saying "I'd rather have rookies in the rotation than make the playoffs." In that extreme view, I 100% lean towards the Mavs' history of thinking.

So, in my opinion, if you want them to value non-obvious draft gold, you have to also be cool with the patience that comes with it.

No argument. I was really just pointing out that his roster outline was a little off. I would also hope that at least two of them would be boom or bust guys - players the Mavs hoped could eventually become stars or something close although picked low. I assume that '19 looks at Ramsay in that sense.

(11-06-2020, 11:07 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-06-2020, 10:46 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]The theory on AG is pretty simple. He's always had good offensive metrics in area where Dwight Powell has good metrics like PNR. But he doesn't nearly enough plays for him ran despite getting starter minutes compared to Powell. Powell has way more volume as bench player in those areas. 

They basically use AG as a guy to camp out on the perimeter and spot up shoot. And he's about as an effective shooter as Powell but shoots way more 3s a game. In Dallas he would be heavy utilized as a PNR and cutter both of which he consistently has elite #s at in advanced metrics. Like 90th percentile. If Dallas likes Dwight, AG is him on steroids with way higher upside. It's an easy move to make if its so cheap and you do indeed love Powell's game if you are the MBT.

Ok, so I buy all of that, and I can tell you've done your homework on the guy. Here's the counter argument:

Fans tend to love super athletic guys like Gordon, even when they don't do all that well. Now, maybe you're right and Orlando is simply not implementing the player in an ideal way. But, the guys who work there are not morons, they're people whose entire lives revolve around professional basketball. I don't think "they don't know how to use him" should be our default position when he doesn't seem to play as well as we believe he should. I think it's a POSSIBLE explanation, but maybe not the most likely one. I mean, if you've been an exec in Orlando for the past several years, you've kind of been in the Aaron Gordon business, trying desperately to unlock the dude's potential. Their inability to do so is a big reason the franchise isn't in a great place right now.

A more plausible argument that's close to yours would be the glaring absence of a pick and roll ball handler on the roster. For whatever reason, they've really struggled to find a PG there, pretty much since Jameer Nelson signed in Dallas years ago. That is bizarre, for sure, and probably has a negative impact on several of their players. 

But in my humble opinion, what we're dealing with in Gordon is a dumb guy. It doesn't get talked about very much, and when it does it's usually framed in a nicer way, but my first thought anytime I see an underperforming NBA player with a lot of athletic ability (the kind that teams covet) is "that guy doesn't get it, does he?" 

What got me thinking this way initially was a Don Nelson quote about Raef Lafrentz back in the day. It was something like "for whatever reason, anytime we try to run something for him, he just finds a way to forget how to run the play." I'm paraphrasing from memory, but it was very close to that.

My overall point is that intelligence and focus matter in pro basketball, much like they matter in pro ANYTHING. How do we, as fans, judge this attribute in players? Really tough to do, though I feel pretty strongly that when players we expected big things from don't get the anticipated results (or even the anticipated playing time) that's kind of the smoke that comes from the "not smart enough" fire. Another indicator is when a player starts bouncing around from team to team a lot, though there could also be other reasons for this, obviously. 

Look, I clearly don't KNOW this about Gordon, and I could be 100% wrong. But it's interesting that the guy has been getable for 2-3 years now and nobody seems super into bringing him onto a good team. Maybe that's because Orlando has valued him too highly, but idk...I just have a feeling he's not very good.

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Having said all of the above, Gordon would certainly be above Tobias Harris on my list, but probably under Gobert, tbh. I believe strongly in my opinion that KP/Gobert is not a fit, but it's undeniable that Gobert is an impact player in the NBA. The same cannot be said for Gordon.

First off I'd like to say thank you for a detailed thought out post. Loving the conversation here! 

With your point about people in Orlando not being morons I agree. They aren't the Kings! However there are a lot factors that have caused AG to never live up to his potential. 

4 coaches in 6 seasons. And because he is a bit of a tweener each coach is going to use that guy differently. It's not a defined position and it's also important how they fit into the scheme. AG was extremely raw early on too so that doesn't help either. Vogel definitely helped him prove his game and you can actually started to see his advanced metrics in his 2nd year with Vogel. And they've continue to improve with Clifford. Clifford and Vogel are both good coaches despite any records might indicate.

However Vogel and Clifford are both coaches that love their big men and running an offense thru them. Heck Vogel just ran a 2 big lineup to a championship.  So again not bashing their coaching ability. That's problematic for AG who is a tweener that isn't a post up guy. And if you don't spread out the offense, you aren't going to be running PNR. And just in general with the old school style offenses Clifford and Vogel employ you don't see alot of screening in general. Compare that to the Mavs where you see a screen and often multiple ones on every halfcourt possession. That means PNR and cutting opportunities. It's much like the situation of putting Delon into an offense where it demands your guards to be great in the PNR. And Delon is incredibly mediocre there.  And I think Delon is a very solid player just an awful fit here. You'd hope that with a guy like AG he has enough talent to still find a ways to unlock his game. And this point the shooting which would probably really have him take his game to another level, still hasn't improved. Much like Powell btw. But Powell is utilized to his skillset correctly. 

I'm sure having a proper PG will help him as well. But he's putting up good metrics without a PG. Again the thesis of having AG explode in Dallas is that he's going to get alot of PNR opportunities. But he'll also have guards playing with him that excel there as you alluded to. 

I think the price has certainly been too high until recently for AG. He's basically Dwight Powell if Powell was getting 33-34 minutes a night and their per 36 numbers match up pretty close. But with inefficient high volume shooting too. The idea that he was somewhat productive but had high upside because he was so young still had alot of shine on it. Now he's basically a more athletic DP at double the cost. If you hate DP contract value, AG is even worse based on their play. 

I've been saying all this for YEARS. I'm going to be so excited to see AG finally get to the right system and coach for him sometime in the next few years, whether or not that is the Mavs.

(11-06-2020, 12:11 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]That´s the same case you can make for guys like Drummond or Lavine. Who the best guys they played with?

Agree about Drummond, he did have crappy PG all the time. LaVine though did play with Rubio for three seasons in Minnesota.

(11-05-2020, 11:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]So.... everyone's out on Aaron Gordon? At one point, he was one of my favorite Mav targets.

Jonathan Issac is going to miss the entire season.  And Gordon's value is way down.  I doubt they trade him based on those things.

My problem with Gordon is how a friend of mine that's a Magic fan put it:  "once every three to four games, Aaron Gordon drives to the basket, playmakes, and is an absolute force.  but most of the time AG thinks he is Kobe and takes terrible shots."

Maybe the Mavs can fix him but to me he's a better Andrew Wiggins.  Steve Clifford is an excellent coach and Gordon plays next to a center that can stretch the floor so I'm not buying it's a system or coaching issue.  He's just a low IQ player.

(11-06-2020, 01:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-06-2020, 01:15 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs2019, I actually like your gonzo idea a great deal. You did leave out that THJ, Powell, Wright, and Curry would still be on roster, likely robbing minutes from some of the rookies.

Can't have the argument both ways. 

If the point is that there should always be an element of youth on the roster, learning, developing behind the vets to MAINTAIN the team's status as a good team in the future and avoid bottoming out, I can get there. In that way, you might have a legitimate beef with the Mavs' decision making process. 

But, if you take it to the point where you say that the vets aren't better than the rookies and more ready to play winning basketball, and that the rookies should be on the floor instead of them, you're basically saying "I'd rather have rookies in the rotation than make the playoffs." In that extreme view, I 100% lean towards the Mavs' history of thinking. 

So, in my opinion, if you want them to value non-obvious draft gold, you have to also be cool with the patience that comes with it.

In a world where GA is still available, I love the idea of using this season to bring in a round of young potential.  This draft is perfect for that, tbh.  Not a lot of high end, but crazy depth.  Maybe not AS much as Mavs2019 threw out there, but the late first, early second round has so many players I would like to add to this roster.  I think that there are a couple of players I would target in that range.  It gives you a ton more ammo to maneuver later and better fits the timeline.  Developing young players also allows the Mavs to avoid overpaying for other's young guys and then finding out that fit is an issue, like with Wright.   

For instance, I would rather take shots at guys like Quickley, Alexander, and Azubuike in the second round on super cheap contracts than try to fill those spots in FA with older vets.    This is the kind of draf, imo to upgrade the potential talent pool.  It is one of the reasons I am down on trading for Gobert or other expensive centers - that list of quality C's at basically the vet min means that paying a traditional C - even if a good player - is a huge opportunity cost because the replacement cost for what they are bringing is just not that high.  I am actually happy with the Mavs' value at the C with WCS and Bobi.  That is excellent cap management.  Today's value is to add quality on the perimeter.  So save money and get a few more lottery tickets to see if you can hit on one or two on team friendly deals.  Adding that depth will make adding a luxury piece more palatable because you don't have to have that $ to fill needs and you build your own flexibility! 

So yes, sign me up for adding some extra picks, and taking low risk shots at players like OPJ/Dipo who the market is down on and may turn into perfect players for this roster while keeping flexible for the NEAR future.

I've been getting a feeling here the last few days of what I think the Mavs may want to try and do. 
The rumors of them wanting to trade up and trade for a 3rd star is perhaps not an either/or situation. 

I think the Mavs may really like a player in the draft and want to get him and make a trade for that third "star" too. After looking at what is in FA next summer (I think Mavs are likely to make a major signing Giannis or not), the Mavs see the ability to get a forward if not Giannis is a bit light. I think they like DFS but aren't committed to him at all as a long term starter. He is what he is and hopefully continues to improve his shooting. 

Reading the possible forward additions, getting a forward in the draft this year makes the most sense. Mavs want to move up in the lottery? There are 6-8 forwards projected to go anywhere from 9-18 with most or potentially all of them gone by the time Mavs pick at 18. Mavs have quality guards already. KP is the 5. I think the desire to move HAS to be for a forward unless they want a guard like Haliburton so bad they are going to trade up as far as it takes to get him. I find that highly unlikely based on the cost. 

It could be any one of those forwards but I can't help but keep noticing Nesmith as the best 3pt shooting forward, 6-10 wingspan and the connection to his coach at Vandy, Stackhouse. Can you move up to say 10-12 with just pick 30. Perhaps they like several different guys in that range of the draft even.

What about a deal with Sacramento for pick 12 and Buddy? That gets you your 3rd star AND allows you to move up in the draft.

(11-06-2020, 10:13 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Coaching > everything else when it comes to defense.

Right now I fully expect any good defender that potentially ends up in Dallas to look worse than he did before. That said a KP/Gobert duo offers a lot of options. Especially when it comes to zone schemes.
In the end there is a point where talent>fit. Gobert has been a top 20 player by nearly all impact metrics for multiple seasons. Most discussed wing/guard options (except for Holiday, healthy Oladipo, healthy Hayward) aren´t even in the top 50.

A lot I really agree with here. Thanks for this.

(11-06-2020, 01:57 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-05-2020, 11:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]So.... everyone's out on Aaron Gordon? At one point, he was one of my favorite Mav targets.

Jonathan Issac is going to miss the entire season.  And Gordon's value is way down.  I doubt they trade him based on those things.

My problem with Gordon is how a friend of mine that's a Magic fan put it:  "once every three to four games, Aaron Gordon drives to the basket, playmakes, and is an absolute force.  but most of the time AG thinks he is Kobe and takes terrible shots."

Maybe the Mavs can fix him but to me he's a better Andrew Wiggins.  Steve Clifford is an excellent coach and Gordon plays next to a center that can stretch the floor so I'm not buying it's a system or coaching issue.  He's just a low IQ player.

As someone who believes AG is just a bad fit there  based on scheme(not a bad coaching thing), I can certainly agree he is a low IQ player. I think that's magnified by not putting an emphasis on what his strengths are. Clifford isn't a heavy PNR guy so he's not going to be demanding for AG to be setting screens. Carlisle will be because that is the offensive system. AG envisions himself as a volume shooting big and nobody has showed him how his game can excel because it doesn't fit their vision of the offense they are running. 

In short you need AG to buy into your vision for his game. And if he doesn't, he'll continue to be who he is. You definitely have to get a read on his attitude and desire to improve via coaching and various backchannels. He may refuse to ever be who he needs to be. And if so yeah obviously none of use will have any interest for him.

(11-06-2020, 12:11 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]I´m still leaning heavily toward taking a free youth swing this season and prepare for 2021. It just seems the smartest strategy.

Im somewhat agree, but having 7 rookies is extreme to take in and share minutes. But yes, I agree that it should be invested in various players with diferrent skillsets, improving and peaking, while staying cheap on the contracts. Next year will hold better opportunities on players, especially if the upcoming season, the Mavs go far in the playoffs that free agents/tradeable players are more than willing to come here.

(11-06-2020, 10:46 AM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]If Dallas likes Dwight, AG is him on steroids with way higher upside.

I watch a few Aaron Gordon highlights, and Orlando games highlights, and here's what I observe:

• Very impressive vertical player, best dunker around, Luka will get the most out of him.
  
• Not enough pick n roll, either its the scheme or his unwilling.
  
• He plays more like a 3 than a 4, often getting the ball at the wings and driving in.
  
• For someone that has a great vertical, doesn't get a decent average in blocks. 
  
• MR.IronMan, has play almost every game for the last 4 seasons. Dallas needs durable players.
  

I said the same thing about AG after seeing his highlights, just like DP but better averages all around (REB, 3PT%,BPG). My only issues would be his mental strength. If anybody remember the game where we play Orlando this year and was getting bother by the foul calls that he lost his focus to play. He plays better than Dwight Powell, but mainly because of one stat, GP/GS he doesn't get injured.

He would be my realistic goal than a Overpaid-Tobias Harris.

(11-06-2020, 10:13 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Coaching > everything else when it comes to defense.

Right now I fully expect any good defender that potentially ends up in Dallas to look worse than he did before. That said a KP/Gobert duo offers a lot of options. Especially when it comes to zone schemes.
In the end there is a point where talent>fit. Gobert has been a top 20 player by nearly all impact metrics for multiple seasons. Most discussed wing/guard options (except for Holiday, healthy Oladipo, healthy Hayward) aren´t even in the top 50.

Dallas has right in the middle of the road most years since the championship. 2012 after Casey left they were a top 10 defense. Casey always has a great defense and they did take a bit of a step back (they also lost Chandler of course). But they were still a good defense with different assistants coaching. 

It wasn't until Kidd and the other centers were gone the next summer that the Mavs took a huge drop. Having a lockdown perimeter defender and rim protecting center was a huge difference.


Defense always picks up in the playoffs. We haven't even gotten to see how the Mavs look there in the last decade because our roster has been so empty of defensive guys. 

Scheme and coaching can make up for lack of defenders to an extent but personnel and matchups matter. Look at Denver and the Clippers. Even when going down 3-1 they were playing really solid defense and then stepped it up in the last 3 games. Kawhi struggled big time. Grant earned himself some money in that series. But in short they were able to use a few different guys to contain Kawhi and George enough. Against the Lakers they could not because they had nobody who could even phase AD. 

When you are running out Boban as your main center... That's how you have Clippers scoring 130 a game against you in the playoffs.

Can any of you tell me any reasoning the Wizards would actually have for trading Beal?

He’s a top 10 talent on a bad team who says he wants to stay in Washington yet he is continuously mentioned in trade rumors. Specifically to Dallas. I’m all about it, but why would Washington do this?

(11-06-2020, 03:22 PM)MavsFan41ife Wrote: [ -> ]Can any of you tell me any reasoning the Wizards would actually have for trading Beal?

He’s a top 10 talent on a bad team who says he wants to stay in Washington yet he is continuously mentioned in trade rumors. Specifically to Dallas. I’m all about it, but why would Washington do this?

I think the biggest issue is that the Wiz are a poorly-run franchise who might feasibly be conned into such a thing.

Unless the Mavs were open to trading KP, their best shot at Beal would be trading for Gobert and then trying to flip him for Beal.

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As a variant on Mavs2019's super rookie proposal, I would say that I would rather try to trade up from 18 as high as they can to get one nearly-can't-miss guy - perhaps packaging Wright with Curry to get an expiring player as well - then do the Maxi for two picks trade, then try to buy some high second rounders.

I do agree, however, that this draft appears to be quite deep in serviceable players. You could put together a bench that would be absolutely serviceable by 2020-21 with five picks in the 16-45 range, especially if two of them were in the top half, if your ***scouting*** was on point.

(11-06-2020, 03:22 PM)MavsFan41ife Wrote: [ -> ]Can any of you tell me any reasoning the Wizards would actually have for trading Beal?

He’s a top 10 talent on a bad team who says he wants to stay in Washington yet he is continuously mentioned in trade rumors. Specifically to Dallas. I’m all about it, but why would Washington do this?

The only way I see Dallas getting Beal (without trading KP) is to take on Wall.  That is basically a salary dump for them and would have the mavs sending back THJ/Curry/Maxi/Powell/Wright...  Basically smaller pieces that they can integrate or move to mold their team into a new form.  As they stand, they are screwed. They are the worst position where they are too good to get elite picks, not good enough to compete, and locked into cap hell for the foreseeable future with their best asset having one more year on his contract...  I take beal at his word that he was loyal, and signed that extension, but I think it just prolonged the agony, tbh.  

I think this trade actually works out for both sides, depending on philosophy. I think that selling beal individually gets a better asset package coming back, but then there isn't a lot more there to do with Wall on the books for a while.  The other option is to just suck it up and suffer Wall, get what they can for beal in terms of draft capital and young talent, and really tank.  I can't see them continuing on their current path. Beal will be dealt at some point - i just don't know that it has to be now.

Mavs would have to decide if Doncic/Wall/Beal/DFS/KP with Brunson/WCS/Bobi/JJ/Min guys are better than depth.  Wall is a good defender - which fills that need - and this team will have the most creators in the league.  But probably too many.  Doncic/Wall/Beal all want the ball in their hands.  The Mavs would still have the full MLE and could try to land an upgrade to DFS, or split it to fill out the bench.  That team would score a crap ton of points and probably lead the league in pace.