An offseason that MBT won't pursue but would be on my wishlist is a scenario where Mavs cash in some assets to get Aaron Gordon, who to me would be excellent as the 5th starter. To make it viable and powder-friendly you would need to send away some of our good bench assets.
If entering 2021 you had Luka, Gordon, DFS, KP + max cap space to upgrade THJ's spot you would be in excellent shape. I think you could look at Richardson, Dinwiddie, Oladipo types as your way to upgrade THJ.
(10-07-2020, 02:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 02:17 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Using 18 to dump Wright, and for an expiring player no less, would be the banghead to end all bangheads for me in this offseason. Well, that, or trading for Russell Westbrook.
Regardless of who the player is?
If it's LeBron, Kawhi, or Giannis, then cool! Jrue too, but I think many teams can outbid us for him. OPJ, I have already weighed in to say we should be able to do that deal without including 18.
So, for me, the only requirement for that deal to be a success is for the player to be better than what’s available at #18. I don’t think that’s impossible at all.
How about some Kelly Oubre for 18/Wright/Jackson? Suns might go for that if they aren't planning to re-sign Kelly Oubre in 2021.
(10-07-2020, 03:03 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So, for me, the only requirement for that deal to be a success is for the player to be better than what’s available at #18. I don’t think that’s impossible at all.
I think this draft is deeper than you obviously do. I have weighed in that the Mavs should package 18 and 31 to move up a few spots (at least three or so). Unless they completely blow the pick on a no-D guy like Nesmith or Toppin (won't be there), I think it would be pretty difficult to screw it up. I would rather have an inexperienced-but-learning good player on a rookie deal than an experienced player on a big deal, and screw Plan Powder. We should be able to dump Wright using 31 if nothing else. He has some value in the league.
I looked at the FA list again. Would rather have 18 (or moved-up-from-18) than Haywood. Lowry I would take, but you aren't getting him for anything the Mavs have (KP for Siakam and Lowry? Hmmmm....). Gobert, Oubre, Schroder, yes, I would do 18 for them. Jarrett Allen, sure. Dinwidie, sure. All of the rest of the players who are expiring in '21 whom I would consider are valuable players not likely to be available who are on rookie deals.
Come to think of it, I would rather have Nesmith and his poor defense on a rookie deal than do a plan powder move.
I would also trade 18 in a package for Aaron Gordon, but that ain't plan powder.
Screw it - OPJ probably requires 18, especially if the deal doesn't include THJ, and I would likely do that. What I actually said earlier was that I would be annoyed if it looked like the deal could have done without including 18.
OPJ would be hard to do with salary matching and all without THJ being included or opting out of his contract.
Gordon *could* be plan powder friendly but it means including one of your nice bench assets like Curry or Kleber along with Wright and probably picks as well. I do think it would take multiple assets to get him. The Magic don't have to move him at all right now if they don't want to, he still has 2 years left on his deal.
As far as just drafting #18 goes, I think it only adds maybe 2.6 mil to 2021 so if you trade Wright in another move you probably still have enough cap space.
Knowing the Mavs history with the draft and rumored interesting in trading the pick, I think it gets moved more likely than not.
(10-07-2020, 03:34 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]OPJ would be hard to do with salary matching and all without THJ being included or opting out of his contract.
Gordon *could* be plan powder friendly but it means including one of your nice bench assets like Curry or Kleber along with Wright and probably picks as well. I do think it would take multiple assets to get him. The Magic don't have to move him at all right now if they don't want to, he still has 2 years left on his deal.
I would definitely consider Kleber/Wright/18 for Gordon. There are probably a few other non-plan powder guys I would do 18 for, but the issue you presented was "for an expirer." That was my beef.
Re: OPJ: Wright/Powell/Justin/18/31 works.
Ya I just think Mavs are going to do 18 for expiring bc of plan powder. Their only other option really is to move Kleber or Curry in a deal which I doubt they do.
Even if you were able to swing for an RFA somewhere they are still going to be getting probably 5 mil+ in 2021, not sure Mavs would do that or even have a target RFA they want.
Thus I think they will trade 18 for someone they could plausibly resign in 2021 if their other plans fall through.
(10-07-2020, 03:39 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Re: OPJ: Wright/Powell/Justin/18/31 works.
I'd love to dump Powell's money, his contract makes me nuts but I don't see it. I think he's untradable for the forseeable future.
(10-07-2020, 03:45 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Ya I just think Mavs are going to do 18 for expiring bc of plan powder. Their only other option really is to move Kleber or Curry in a deal which I doubt they do.
Even if you were able to swing for an RFA somewhere they are still going to be getting probably 5 mil+ in 2021, not sure Mavs would do that or even have a target RFA they want.
Thus I think they will trade 18 for someone they could plausibly resign in 2021 if their other plans fall through.
Once again, I am OUT on Oladipo.
I am fine with the Mavs trading 18 for an expirer who is good. I would be quite dynamically angry if they traded it for someone lame just for money's sake, and my "lame" list vis-a-vis whom we could get in the draft is quite long.
I don't disagree but Mavs gonna Mavs.
(10-07-2020, 01:52 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 12:25 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Highlights for me.
Any notes from him on the draft?
[b]1. When does the offseason actually begin? [/b]Free agency was scheduled for Oct. 18, but that’s just 11 days away now and not going to happen. There isn’t a date set for it yet, but given the hopeful timeline for next season, sometime in November is the best educated guess to throw out there. What we do know is the NBA draft is scheduled for Nov. 18. Media interviews with draft prospects were conducted last week, and teams have been doing their due diligence on that front. -Saad
[b]2. How focused on the 2021 offseason is the Dallas front office?[/b] There won’t be a mega-signing this offseason destined to transform Dallas into something bandwagoners flock to. Next season could be. If Dallas insists on maximizing its chances of a superstar acquisition a year from now, it could come at the expense of next season’s team – which might be closer to title contention than you think. -Tim
[b]3. Which Mavericks trigger their player options? [/b]Tim Hardaway Jr. and his $18.9 million player option is the primary subject here. This is a generally weak free agency class, and Hardaway would be among the most coveted players at his position if he elected to test the waters. He’s also 28 years old, so the time to cash in is dwindling. But COVID-19 plays a role because of how it impacts the cap and how much teams have to dole out. The Mavericks have made it clear that they would like to have him back for the right price, but they can’t give him a hefty long-term deal because it limits their wallet for a desirable 2021 free agency. Willie Cauley-Stein also has a player option for $2.3 million. -Saad
[b]4. What do the Mavericks do with their two picks?[/b] The Mavericks front office is among the more trade-friendly groups in the NBA, but I believe the draft boards will have limited movement this year for Dallas. Because the draft class isn’t very strong at the top, unpredictability could rule the day and a player valued in the top-10 could fall to their pick at No. 18. The other selection is No. 31, acquired from the Warriors in a deal made four years ago. The top of the second round is where value picks like Jalen Brunson are made. -Saad
[b]5. Are the Mavericks properly valuing the No. 18 pick?[/b] In 2021 and 2023, the team’s top picks depart for New York. The middle of the first round isn’t where teams find guaranteed starters – especially this year, in a relatively weak draft class – but it could be the last chance Dallas has to acquire another high-potential youngster who could grow alongside its fledgling core. -Tim
That's pretty much all he says about the draft that I saw.
(10-07-2020, 03:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Screw it - OPJ probably requires 18, especially if the deal doesn't include THJ, and I would likely do that. What I actually said earlier was that I would be annoyed if it looked like the deal could have done without including 18.
I had a post a few nights ago about how any OPJ trade using just Wright + Jackson would have to be constructed. Financially it was tight, but essentially you trade them for Julius Randle after the draft, then flip Randle for OPJ (you’d likely lose 18 and 31 between both trades) If you’re trading for OPJ, I wouldn’t include any of the rotation players.
(10-07-2020, 01:11 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]With in mind that I think they do the following:
1. Upgrade Wright with a pick (likely 18) for some expiring veteran out there that is brought in as a starter. This will be Cubes "win now" move. It also will clear off Wright's money in 2021.
2. Bring back Burke + other small moves to shore up some roster holes. Mavs will use MLE money that isn't guaranteed in 2021 or adds only a small amount to '21 books.
3. Probably draft a player with #31 and use part of MLE if they find a player they like there.
I basically agree with this. The most elegant move to be better in 2020/21 while staying flexible in 2021 is trading Wright for a better fitting expiring player. Guys like Snell, J.Johnson or Young might be available for lower picks like future seconds or even less, guys like Schroeder, Richardson will require (at least) #18. Oubre would be great, but I think Phoenix would prefer cap space if they are moving him (to go after some free agent like VanVleet). Still it could be done with a third team involved. I really hope we could get someone like Schroeder and his bird rights.
I would even promote to spend the MLE on a long term contract. Because it really shouldn't be a problem to move one of MLE/Curry/Kleber/Powell to sign a max guy to a max contract if one wants to come. If max guys aren't available, we either resign THJ and (for example) Schroeder or still have up to 25 million to play with if we let both go.
I don't really see any reason to sign Burke unless we move Curry or Brunson. I don't see him as a starter on a contender and it would be a waste to have him as our third PG - I am sure he wants a bigger role. I don't see it possible that a bench of Brunson-Burke-Curry could work well together. Burke is a great guy, but I guess it makes more sense for both sides if he signs somewhere else. He can say thank you to Mavs to help him significantly improve his market value.
(10-07-2020, 01:07 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 01:01 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Paul Millsap is my favorite MLE target.
He is tough without being a knucklehead. Now can we convince him to go from 30 millionish to MLE?
You may need to offer him an additional year which complicates things.
(10-07-2020, 05:08 PM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]OPJ
Unfortunately I think it would just take too many assets to trade for his expiring contract. I don't really see why Chicago, who wants to have a better season, would even want to move him unless a really good offer comes their way. I don't think we are prepared to pay that really good offer. In his case I think it makes more sense to wait for free agency.
Actually, if plan flexibility is the moto, why don't we do this:
1. Merge Curry with his father in law in Philly for Richardson. Can Rivers really say no to this deal? :-)
2. Trade Wright/JJ+#18 for Schroeder
3. Sign one or two promising youngsters like Giles or Josh Jackson or perhaps even J. Hernangomez or Jones Jr for MLE. We can even afford to give more years. Or go for vet leadership and sign Milsap
Luka-JRich-THJ-DFS-KP
Brunson-Schroeder-Jones-Maxi-Powell or
Luka-JRich-THJ-Milsap-KP
Brunson-Schroeder-DFS-Maxi-Powell
This gives us a very deep team in 2020 and gazillion options in 2021 while we bring back most of the team back. You can add #31 if we manage to keep it or potential bought picks to the mix. The only problem I have who would be finishing, as I have a problem seeing a lineup of Luka-Schroeder-JRich-THJ-KP together. Perhaps THJ would sit out of those 5 for DFS or Milsap.
(10-07-2020, 05:08 PM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 03:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Screw it - OPJ probably requires 18, especially if the deal doesn't include THJ, and I would likely do that. What I actually said earlier was that I would be annoyed if it looked like the deal could have done without including 18.
I had a post a few nights ago about how any OPJ trade using just Wright + Jackson would have to be constructed. Financially it was tight, but essentially you trade them for Julius Randle after the draft, then flip Randle for OPJ (you’d likely lose 18 and 31 between both trades) If you’re trading for OPJ, I wouldn’t include any of the rotation players.
I haven't really seen that sort of thing executed before, I doubt that's going to happen.
(10-07-2020, 06:30 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 05:08 PM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 03:14 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Screw it - OPJ probably requires 18, especially if the deal doesn't include THJ, and I would likely do that. What I actually said earlier was that I would be annoyed if it looked like the deal could have done without including 18.
I had a post a few nights ago about how any OPJ trade using just Wright + Jackson would have to be constructed. Financially it was tight, but essentially you trade them for Julius Randle after the draft, then flip Randle for OPJ (you’d likely lose 18 and 31 between both trades) If you’re trading for OPJ, I wouldn’t include any of the rotation players.
I haven't really seen that sort of thing executed before, I doubt that's going to happen.
I’m not sure I have either, but I’m fairly confident it is legal to trade an acquired player via trade anytime, as long as you don’t add other players with them (that’s where the restriction comes in)
(10-07-2020, 05:16 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (10-07-2020, 05:08 PM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]OPJ
Unfortunately I think it would just take too many assets to trade for his expiring contract. I don't really see why Chicago, who wants to have a better season, would even want to move him unless a really good offer comes their way. I don't think we are prepared to pay that really good offer. In his case I think it makes more sense to wait for free agency.
Actually, if plan flexibility is the moto, why don't we do this:
1. Merge Curry with his father in law in Philly for Richardson. Can Rivers really say no to this deal? :-)
2. Trade Wright/JJ+#18 for Schroeder
3. Sign one or two promising youngsters like Giles or Josh Jackson or perhaps even J. Hernangomez or Jones Jr for MLE. We can even afford to give more years. Or go for vet leadership and sign Milsap
Luka-JRich-THJ-DFS-KP
Brunson-Schroeder-Jones-Maxi-Powell or
Luka-JRich-THJ-Milsap-KP
Brunson-Schroeder-DFS-Maxi-Powell
This gives us a very deep team in 2020 and gazillion options in 2021 while we bring back most of the team back. You can add #31 if we manage to keep it or potential bought picks to the mix. The only problem I have who would be finishing, as I have a problem seeing a lineup of Luka-Schroeder-JRich-THJ-KP together. Perhaps THJ would sit out of those 5 for DFS or Milsap.
I like your thinking here, but 1) if I'm getting Schroder, it's to start next to Luka, not come off the bench; 2) if we for whatever reason were to get both of those guys, THJ's ass sits, and in before everyone Dino the Dinosaur yaps about how THJ is better in the starting lineup etc.; 3) I think the Mavs don't need two perimeter players as much as they need one perimeter player and one three-four (or wing four) kind of guy, so if you can get JRich so much more cheaply (and you seem to think he's better, since you have him starting - BTW, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, if Doc calls asking for that trade, you milk him for picks to get his son-in-law back with him), I forgo Schroder, trade 18 and 31 to move up to the 13-15 range, and draft Achiuwa, S. Bey, or a similarly-sized player.
One more thing - not just you, Omahen, but y'all dreamin' if you think Powell is going to be in our 10-man rotation at the beginning of the year. If WCS opts in, he's your second big off the bench after Maxi, and Powell gets eased in bit by bit. If Powell is usable by the TDL, then you can flip WCS for something (which I would somewhat lament, but oh well. If WCS can learn to shoot better than 30% from three, then he will have become better than Powell at nearly every phase of the game).
I like Schroder's fit, but I wish he were under contract for a few seasons instead of expiring. It's not hard to imagine him walking in free agency while we sit around waiting for Giannis to make his decision. If we're giving up #18 I would prefer someone like Aaron Gordon who at least has two years remaining.