(10-09-2020, 03:03 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]There is leadership, there is hard work ethic, culture, energy he plays with is lifting others and so on.
Paying 11 million for a glorified cheerleader is not how you build a championship team.
Mavs will cut Powell loose and won't think twice about it if WCS shows he's capable. And that's not even facing the question of does Powell ever return to form? So far every achilles player the Mavs have dealt with haven't looked the same one bit. How can we expect the bouncy, athletic, rim runner to even look anything like what he was before?
I am trully surprised by this endless WCS stuff. Sacramento didn't want to keep him as their center. He signed for basically vet min with GSW and they traded him for basically nothing in half a year. Everyone believes he will take his PO for basically vet min (because you all think he is not worth more), yet all of this facts will somehow result in WCS becoming a high impact rotation player on a contender.
(10-09-2020, 03:14 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Paying 11 million for a glorified cheerleader is not how you build a championship team.
This is just an endless discussion. It was shown many times how positive impact Powell has on the team. KP was generally bad the first half ot the season so I wouldn't really assume it is not possible to try KP and Powell play together again, with KP showing much better games in general.
I will just repeat that Mavs shown huge commitment to Powell. I can think it was a mistake and they overpaid but it will not change that fact. It would be just stupid to pay what assets we have just to dump Powell at his historically lowest value. So the only logical conclusion is, Mavs will try everything to bring Powell to where he was. Even if just to lift his trade value. They were patient with KP, they will be patient with Powell.
(10-09-2020, 03:14 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]So far every achilles player the Mavs have dealt with haven't looked the same one bit. How can we expect the bouncy, athletic, rim runner to even look anything like what he was before?
And yet they loyally stick to last two cases of achilles injury they had.
(10-09-2020, 03:14 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]And yet they loyally stick to last two cases of achilles injury they had.
And they were rewarded in the end.
I don't believe in assets in general, but I know if you got some by random, you don't waste them to get rid of an recovering player nobody knows how he will recover just because.
(10-09-2020, 03:03 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Nope. Mavs are not stupid, they know exactly what Powell is and they paid for that. There are tons of things Powell is bringing to the table that WCS is not. And I am not just talking about elite rim running. There is leadership, there is hard work ethic, culture, energy he plays with is lifting others and so on.
No one is claiming they are stupid. Just because they aren’t stupid doesn’t mean they get a pass on doing stupid things. They have JJB, Lee and Boban for vet leadership and lockerroom leaders/cheerleaders. How many more do they need?
What bigger lockerroom presence do they need than Luka on top of all the rest? When I said WCS is the guy they wish they had, I was talking about on the court, not off. I don’t see the purpose of adding so many of those guys to the detriment of the on court product. We need a bit more NVE “F those guys” (please ask if you don’t understand the reference instead of assuming it) attitudes in the lockerroom.
Also, we’re saying the same thing in that the team will probably give DP more benefit of the doubt. I liken it to fighting the champ. Can’t let it go to decision cause the champ wins that most of the time, WCS is gonna have to knock the champ out with his play with as much as the team loves DP. Wish it didn’t have to come to that, cause small incremental upgrades are highly important with this team now.
Also, WCS is a MAV too! Especially if he opts in!
So why am I high on WCS??
1) The Mavs defense was +6.4 better when he played and from the eye test I noticed a very BIG impact from his presence.
2) He showed the ability to move his feet on the perimeter when playing the switch on the pick and roll. The best of any of the Mavs bigs.
3) He showed good rim protection and verticality on D when challenging shots.
4) He struggled with the offense (most newbies do struggle with RC's offense initially), but showed flashes of being a lob threat when he "got" it. He was a positive for the offense in SAC.
5) He showed promise with his outside shooting form and think he will eventually be a good corner three threat.
6) He is just 27 and costs $2M.
I think Powell is criminally underrated around here, but I'm also really excited about WCS. Dude is long and FAST. My favorite part of his game is when he hits a full on sprint in transition.
The guy who ends up being sad when WCS opts in is Boban, imo.
(10-09-2020, 08:27 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think Powell is criminally underrated around here
And here I thought he was criminally overrated by guys around here.
(10-09-2020, 08:30 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2020, 08:27 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think Powell is criminally underrated around here
And here I thought he was criminally overrated by guys around here.
Glad I could clear that up for you!
Powell is trash but people are blinded by cool dunks! Sad!
(10-09-2020, 07:33 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So why am I high on WCS??
1) The Mavs defense was +6.4 better when he played and from the eye test I noticed a very BIG impact from his presence.
2) He showed the ability to move his feet on the perimeter when playing the switch on the pick and roll. The best of any of the Mavs bigs.
3) He showed good rim protection and verticality on D when challenging shots.
4) He struggled with the offense (most newbies do struggle with RC's offense initially), but showed flashes of being a lob threat when he "got" it. He was a positive for the offense in SAC.
5) He showed promise with his outside shooting form and think he will eventually be a good corner three threat.
6) He is just 27 and costs $2M.
I agree with all of the above. He's pretty close to the prototypical Carlisle center. He just needs some experience.
But, with him expiring on a year when so many teams will have cap room, I wonder how cheap he'll be after next year, especially if he can get into the rotation for the Mavs, a playoff team.
(10-09-2020, 08:40 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]But, with him expiring on a year when so many teams will have cap room, I wonder how cheap he'll be after next year, especially if he can get into the rotation for the Mavs, a playoff team.
I don't get why this is a concern if he plays well enough in our system to warrant a bigger contract?
(10-09-2020, 08:27 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The guy who ends up being sad when WCS opts in is Boban, imo.
This is the part I don't understand. If he is so good, why would he take his 2 mil player option to potentially play 3rd string center with the Mavs, behind KP, Maxi, DFS and Powell in the PF/C rotation, with Boban also taking some minute? If I am really good, I would never opt in with such terms. I rather sign one year vet min prove it contract with a centerless team like Houston, Boston, Charlotte and similar.
(10-09-2020, 08:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2020, 08:40 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]But, with him expiring on a year when so many teams will have cap room, I wonder how cheap he'll be after next year, especially if he can get into the rotation for the Mavs, a playoff team.
I don't get why this is a concern if he plays well enough in our system to warrant a bigger contract?
Who said it was a concern? I'm just pointing out that it's not really that much of a positive, especially since they have so much money tied up in the position already, and even if it is, it might not be for much longer. I'm definitely not "concerned" about it. I hope he DOES play well here!
I have decided that:
1) Powell is indeed funneling half of his salary to Dirk.
2) Omahen is Dirk.
That's the only explanation.
(10-09-2020, 08:48 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2020, 08:45 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ] (10-09-2020, 08:40 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]But, with him expiring on a year when so many teams will have cap room, I wonder how cheap he'll be after next year, especially if he can get into the rotation for the Mavs, a playoff team.
I don't get why this is a concern if he plays well enough in our system to warrant a bigger contract?
Who said it was a concern? I'm just pointing out that it's not really that much of a positive, especially since they have so much money tied up in the position already, and even if it is, it might not be for much longer. I'm definitely not "concerned" about it. I hope he DOES play well here!
Him playing well here makes DP quite expendable which could free up quite a bit of money for WCS (and doesn't need to even be the same amount as DP unless he plays that well). However, first things first, WCS playing well with the Mavs, then we can cross that bridge.
@"ItsGoTime" Sure, but does DP being expendable mean they can trade him, coming off of an Achilles injury?
The only way you can move Powell is if HE comes back and plays well again. And ironically, if he were to do that, I’m not sure they’d want to move him.
They LIKE Powell. They DON’T think he’s overpaid (before the injury). They gave him the contract.
I think they’d try to move him at some point if they needed to clear space for 2021, but I don’t think they look at him like a problem, the way he’s viewed around here.
I think a healthy Powell would’ve made a pretty big difference in the Clippers series, personally.
I also think WCS could’ve made a difference, though to a smaller extent, due to his lack of comparative familiarity with the Dallas systems on both sides of the court. By NEXT year’s playoffs, he should be in the swing of things if he’s not traded, right?
Why does this have to be Palestine vs Israel, Coke vs Pepsi, etc? Can’t we just be excited that it looks like the team is getting TWO good players back?
(10-09-2020, 08:47 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]This is the part I don't understand. If he is so good, why would he take his 2 mil player option to potentially play 3rd string center with the Mavs, behind KP, Maxi, DFS and Powell in the PF/C rotation, with Boban also taking some minute? If I am really good, I would never opt in with such terms. I rather sign one year vet min prove it contract with a centerless team like Houston, Boston, Charlotte and similar.
This is a weird argument to me. What if he likes it here and believes he will show he's better than an achilles tear recovering, mostly rim running, C in DP. What about that confidence in himself while making more than the minimum to show it?
This team legitimately has 5 guys who you could call rotation centers with a straight face. 2-3 of them are versatile enough to play WITH the others at the same time, when needed.
These facts should make us happy.
(10-09-2020, 09:08 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]@ItsGoTime Sure, but does DP being expendable mean they can trade him, coming off of an Achilles injury?
The only way you can move Powell is if HE comes back and plays well again. And ironically, if he were to do that, I’m not sure they’d want to move him.
They LIKE Powell. They DON’T think he’s overpaid (before the injury). They gave him the contract.
I think they’d try to move him at some point if the needed to clear space for 2021, but I don’t think they look at him like a problem, the way he’s viewed around here.
I think a healthy Powell would’ve made a pretty big difference in the Clippers series, personally.
I also think WCS could’ve made a difference, though to a smaller extent, due to his lack of comparative familiarity with the Dallas systems on both sides of the court. By NEXT year’s playoffs, he should be in the swing of things if he’s not traded, right?
Why does this have to be Palestine vs Israel, Coke vs Pepsi, etc? Can’t we just be excited that it looks like the team is getting TWO good players back?
I don't see the minutes availability, barring injury, for the two of them to show they are what we need. One of them is going to win the lion's share of the minutes while the other will be relegated to Boban status (again, barring injury). In other words, I don't believe there will be a chance for your scenario of both DP and WCS to show they deserve big contracts.
So, if WCS wins the lion's share, DP should go on the trade block (to get whatever we can for him even if it means using a future pick to do it, because we'll want that money for WCS's contract, and in the scenario where we can't move off of it, we still pay the better player who has shown to be a good fit on the team! In other words, cross that bridge). If DP "wins" the the lion's share, WCS won't be wanted by the FO, so it won't matter what other teams will pay for him.
Also, I don't believe DP will need to show any more than about 80% of pre-injury capability in order to receive the benefit of the doubt I've been talking about from the team, where WCS is gonna have to show more than 80% of DP's pre-injury capability (not skill for skill, but as a whole).
@"ItsGoTime" I don’t follow your line of thought. I don’t think Powell NEEDS to prove he’s worth a big contract. He already has one. He has a job and role here. I assume he’ll get dropped right back into it, provided he’s healthy enough.
If he’s a starter again, that means the team really wants to play with two bigs more often than not, and in that scenario, WCS will absolutely get minutes off the bench.
If both of them are coming off the bench, then yeah, WCS may have some lean times to start the season, and at that point, yes, the team might view Powell’s contract in a way that’s more similar to how it’s commonly thought of around here. Does that incentivize them to give WCS burn AHEAD of Powell? I don’t know, but I would think not, since they’d still be paying Powell more, he’s a team leader, etc.
But, and I can’t stress this enough, injuries (and other unexpected phenomena) WILL happen. This will all work itself out. It’s a good thing to be deep.
I think the two guys most likely to lose minutes to WCS are Boban and Kleber. Boban because he’s not as versatile, and Kleber because while I think he’ll keep the minutes he spends playing WITH Powell, he’ll lose some of the minutes he got playing FOR Powell.