Did I miss a Schroder rumor somewhere in the last 3 pages or are we just having a conversation?
It makes great sense for OKC to trade him before he becomes UFA in a year. He certainly meets the criteria of "a better version of Burke" on the court, though 19/20 was a career year in many ways.
A couple thoughts...
1. No idea if he has truly grown up off the court or not. Certainly a concern.
2. Do you really give up 18 for an expiring deal? How about a swap of 18 for 25? How about 31? My squeamishness may be a sign of a reasonable deal. But, it feels rich for a possible rental.
3. I would think they'd want Brunson if they are shipping out Paul and Schroder. Wright plus Brunson is a legal trade. Add appropriate draft compensation from there.
4. OKC has two large TPE's. One for $9mm and one for $10mm plus two smaller ones. There are ways to get creative here. Maybe we are part of the salary that comes back to OKC as part of a Paul deal. Maybe it is Jackson after doing Wright/Brunson into TPE's (that would create a $5mm TPE for us. Maybe we use Lee to manufacture a large expiring deal of about $10mm (still using Wright/Brunson into TPE's) to help get a large deal across the finish line? We would create a sizable TPE and OKC could get an expiring contract instead of someone they may not want.
5. Schroder is GREAT at corner 3's and C&S 3's. He's really bad at Pull Up 3's. His percentages would go up a ton if he took fewer of the latter, but you lose much of what he brings to the table if you just stand him in the corner. What Burke did was a pretty good model if Schroder can be convinced of the strategy.
BTW, Hollinger voted for Schroder for Sixth Man. Here is what he wrote at the time:
"Oklahoma City’s Dennis Schröder had a career year, playing some of the best offense of his career and by far the best defense. His emergence enabled the Thunder to close games with a fearsome three-guard lineup, one that also helped them hide glaring weaknesses on the wing. By my methodology, he was the only bench player to generate more than $20 million in value this season. In a crowded field, his two-way contribution gives him the upper hand. Additionally, one can argue Schröder’s season mattered – it was a huge factor in the Thunder’s surprising playoff push this year.
I’ve put Schröder first on my ballot and Wood second."
(09-13-2020, 11:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Did I miss a Schroder rumor somewhere in the last 3 pages or are we just having a conversation?
It makes great sense for OKC to trade him before he becomes UFA in a year. He certainly meets the criteria of "a better version of Burke" on the court, though 19/20 was a career year in many ways.
A couple thoughts...
1. No idea if he has truly grown up off the court or not. Certainly a concern.
2. Do you really give up 18 for an expiring deal? How about a swap of 18 for 25? How about 31? My squeamishness may be a sign of a reasonable deal. But, it feels rich for a possible rental.
3. I would think they'd want Brunson if they are shipping out Paul and Schroder. Wright plus Brunson is a legal trade. Add appropriate draft compensation from there.
4. OKC has two large TPE's. One for $9mm and one for $10mm plus two smaller ones. There are ways to get creative here. Maybe we are part of the salary that comes back to OKC as part of a Paul deal. Maybe it is Jackson after doing Wright/Brunson into TPE's (that would create a $5mm TPE for us. Maybe we use Lee to manufacture a large expiring deal of about $10mm (still using Wright/Brunson into TPE's) to help get a large deal across the finish line? We would create a sizable TPE and OKC could get an expiring contract instead of someone they may not want.
5. Schroder is GREAT at corner 3's and C&S 3's. He's really bad at Pull Up 3's. His percentages would go up a ton if he took fewer of the latter, but you lose much of what he brings to the table if you just stand him in the corner. What Burke did was a pretty good model if Schroder can be convinced of the strategy.
BTW, Hollinger voted for Schroder for Sixth Man. Here is what he wrote at the time:
"Oklahoma City’s Dennis Schröder had a career year, playing some of the best offense of his career and by far the best defense. His emergence enabled the Thunder to close games with a fearsome three-guard lineup, one that also helped them hide glaring weaknesses on the wing. By my methodology, he was the only bench player to generate more than $20 million in value this season. In a crowded field, his two-way contribution gives him the upper hand. Additionally, one can argue Schröder’s season mattered – it was a huge factor in the Thunder’s surprising playoff push this year.
I’ve put Schröder first on my ballot and Wood second."
@"Kammrath" had to put a little more air under the ball than he wanted, but @"DanSchwartzman" finally flushed it home!
MVP
(09-13-2020, 11:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]3. I would think they'd want Brunson if they are shipping out Paul and Schroder. Wright plus Brunson is a legal trade. Add appropriate draft compensation from there.
I doubt Brunson would be so importnant, as they have their starting PG and there are many ways to fill the back up PG role. I much rather give up #18 than Brunson and get #25 back.
(09-13-2020, 11:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]2. Do you really give up 18 for an expiring deal?
Perhaps the closest comparison is last year TDL Morris deal. Clippers paid first rounder and pick swap for him. I don't think #31 is enough (if you don't give Brunson). Perhaps #31 and a couple of future seconds? #18 for #25 swap seems a bit light.
(09-14-2020, 01:16 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 11:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]2. Do you really give up 18 for an expiring deal?
Perhaps the closest comparison is last year TDL Morris deal. Clippers paid first rounder and pick swap for him. I don't think #31 is enough (if you don't give Brunson). Perhaps #31 and a couple of future seconds? #18 for #25 swap seems a bit light.
Which is essentially a first and expiring Harkless for two playoff runs with Morris (we can only hope LAC is bad enough to swap picks with NYK next season). We'd only get one playoff run with Schroder. Still, you are probably right about 18 being fair. If I'm OKC, I probably ask for Brunson, pick swap and #31 (maybe give back a future second). Brunson isn't a focal point necessarily, but OKC will need a backup PG and Brunson is good at that and cheap.
Don't forget the TPE possibility. From the Mav's perspective, if I send Jackson with Wright, this is probably a simultaneous trade (it could be non-simultaneous, but the TPE would be much smaller). If I send Brunson with Wright, it opens up the possibility of a non-simultaneous trade. Wright and Brunson fit into TPE's and we can send up to an additional $9.9mm ($20.5mm minus $10.6mm combined for Wright and Brunson). That size TPE would allow us to do a S&T for a FA for a few dollars above the MLE.
Two other concerns...Schroder's agent also represents Seth. Schroder would essentially block Curry's path to starting. It isn't that often you see an agent represent two guys at the same position on the same team. Schroder's agent also represents Giannis. IF (in bold leters with big font) there is a plan to get Giannis to Dallas, the agent would have to be careful here. Schroder would have to be taken care of as the agent can't throw one client under the bus for the benefit of the other.
I'm a little luke warm on all of this. There will be a good PG possibility at 18 (or earlier if you trade up) Brunson is more than serviceable running the second team. Depending on how expensive this gets, I would want to extend Schroder before agreeing or pass completely despite thinking he's a good fit here. I would need to find something tangible that says he's really grown up in the last couple of years.
(09-14-2020, 06:37 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Which is essentially a first and expiring Harkless for two playoff runs with Morris
One playoff run. He is also expiring.
(09-14-2020, 06:37 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I would want to extend Schroder before agreeing or pass completely despite thinking he's a good fit here. I would need to find something tangible that says he's really grown up in the last couple of years
I am not really sure I understand why. Why would you kill your flexibility in advance? Isn't a one year trial perfect to get an impression how grown up he really is? I don't think it would be a big problem to resign him with the bird rights. If he is a good fit, no problem to pay him 20 per. If he doesn't work out, we can let him walk. If Giannis comes knocking, we will have to get rid of him anyway
(09-14-2020, 06:37 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 01:16 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-13-2020, 11:04 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]2. Do you really give up 18 for an expiring deal?
Perhaps the closest comparison is last year TDL Morris deal. Clippers paid first rounder and pick swap for him. I don't think #31 is enough (if you don't give Brunson). Perhaps #31 and a couple of future seconds? #18 for #25 swap seems a bit light.
Which is essentially a first and expiring Harkless for two playoff runs with Morris (we can only hope LAC is bad enough to swap picks with NYK next season). We'd only get one playoff run with Schroder. Still, you are probably right about 18 being fair. If I'm OKC, I probably ask for Brunson, pick swap and #31 (maybe give back a future second). Brunson isn't a focal point necessarily, but OKC will need a backup PG and Brunson is good at that and cheap.
Don't forget the TPE possibility. From the Mav's perspective, if I send Jackson with Wright, this is probably a simultaneous trade (it could be non-simultaneous, but the TPE would be much smaller). If I send Brunson with Wright, it opens up the possibility of a non-simultaneous trade. Wright and Brunson fit into TPE's and we can send up to an additional $9.9mm ($20.5mm minus $10.6mm combined for Wright and Brunson). That size TPE would allow us to do a S&T for a FA for a few dollars above the MLE.
Two other concerns...Schroder's agent also represents Seth. Schroder would essentially block Curry's path to starting. It isn't that often you see an agent represent two guys at the same position on the same team. Schroder's agent also represents Giannis. IF (in bold leters with big font) there is a plan to get Giannis to Dallas, the agent would have to be careful here. Schroder would have to be taken care of as the agent can't throw one client under the bus for the benefit of the other.
I'm a little luke warm on all of this. There will be a good PG possibility at 18 (or earlier if you trade up) Brunson is more than serviceable running the second team. Depending on how expensive this gets, I would want to extend Schroder before agreeing or pass completely despite thinking he's a good fit here. I would need to find something tangible that says he's really grown up in the last couple of years.
I'm very hesitent on Schröder. He isn't really a non-nonsense player to say it nice.
And him battling Luka for the most fancy car would destract everybody from playing bball.
#Flexgang
Is there, a realistic way, we can get Giannis this offseason?
(09-14-2020, 07:38 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Is there, a realistic way, we can get Giannis this offseason?
No
He demands to be traded to only Dallas and Dallas are happy to send them KP.
Otherwise not really.
(09-14-2020, 06:42 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-14-2020, 06:37 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Which is essentially a first and expiring Harkless for two playoff runs with Morris
One playoff run. He is also expiring.
(09-14-2020, 06:37 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]I would want to extend Schroder before agreeing or pass completely despite thinking he's a good fit here. I would need to find something tangible that says he's really grown up in the last couple of years
I am not really sure I understand why. Why would you kill your flexibility in advance? Isn't a one year trial perfect to get an impression how grown up he really is? I don't think it would be a big problem to resign him with the bird rights. If he is a good fit, no problem to pay him 20 per. If he doesn't work out, we can let him walk. If Giannis comes knocking, we will have to get rid of him anyway
If we really like him, let's keep him. If not, why are we giving up significant assets. Morris was probably viewed as the final piece for a championship run (good catch on my 2 years mistake). Is Schroder that for us? I guess it depends on the cost. If the cost is high, then I want to keep him. If we don't want to keep him, I don't want to pay a high cost for a rental.
BTW, if you add Schroder and can add one more piece to the front-court, then I'm ready to go to war with what we have. If the front court player isn't too old, you can keep the band together for a fairly good run of time.
I've hated Schroder since I watched him not pass to Dirk at Olympics or FIBA or whatever it was.
(09-14-2020, 08:12 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]If we really like him, let's keep him. If not, why are we giving up significant assets.
I think because, this level of players we are looking at are not clear cut solutions. They are risky, all of them. So I rather mitigate risk if possible.
Not a fan of it myself but I think we haven´t mentioned it so far. What about taking on some longterm salary in exchange for assets (draft picks, young players). It would give the Mavs more options to add talent in the future if they don´t like the current options. Adding a contract like Horfords or CP3s (just for example) would give the Mavs a big expiring contract that they could use in trades in 2022 or 2023. Added draft picks could be a trade asset as well but potential first round picks (maybe even lottery) could also be a cheap way to add talent.
(09-14-2020, 09:59 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Not a fan of it myself but I think we haven´t mentioned it so far. What about taking on some longterm salary in exchange for assets (draft picks, young players). It would give the Mavs more options to add talent in the future if they don´t like the current options. Adding a contract like Horfords or CP3s (just for example) would give the Mavs a big expiring contract that they could use in trades in 2022 or 2023. Added draft picks could be a trade asset as well but potential first round picks (maybe even lottery) could also be a cheap way to add talent.
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oz8xv3Oz1.../giphy.gif
Some thoughts on Schroder:
1) Where can you find a better two way player (what this team needs desperately) that is potentially available and "gettable", especially at defending the perimeter and "water bug" guards?
2) Is a player allowed to mature and turn over a new leaf? At what point do you allow for the possibility that 27 year old Schroder is a completely different human being that has outgrown his 20 year old self?
3) He meshed INCREDIBLY well with CP3 and his alpha personality. Without Schroder OKC almost certainly doesn't make the playoffs. He was THAT impactful.
4) He plays FEARLESS. He will NOT hesitate down the stretch or in the playoffs. His clutch ratings are just STUPID good (+33.4 in the regular season and +37.8 in the playoffs). He has the killer instinct the Mavs need desperately.
(09-14-2020, 07:38 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Is there, a realistic way, we can get Giannis this offseason?
Not really. Unless Giannis specifically puts Dallas on a shortlist and demanded to be traded this offseason or else he isn't playing.
Also the Mavs 2 trade packages are either built around KP, or sending a crap ton of picks and pick swaps (we can theoretically send up to 10 picks if we trade the rest of the decade away). I don't think any team really has the assets to trade for Giannis. And any team that does would be a shell of what they were making him leaving in free agency likely.
(09-14-2020, 10:43 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/1305528040525574150
The fact that Giannis had to confirm with ownership to actually spend money on good players is baffling.
I'm glad when Cuban wants to win he's willing to spend.
Giannis isn't going to get over the hump in MIL but could form the greatest team of all time in Dallas.
Come on LeBron Giannis, put your Dallas jersey on.
