Phoenix gets nothing from us beyond Wright+Jackson for Oubre. Are you kidding me.
(11-11-2020, 07:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Shams reporting Westbrook wants out of Houston. It's real now boys!
So now we are testing how broke that Houston owner really is.
Regarding the rumours and that they are not trading their superstars for 0.10c on the dollar.
(11-11-2020, 07:02 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]One reason the Mavs may like Oubre (Fish has reported Mavs liked him in Washington) is that he's shown the last few years that he's a pretty decent wing in the PNR being around the 70th percentile. That's not elite by any means. But for a 24 year old wing that was pretty raw coming out? I think that's pretty good with plenty of room to improve. He definitely has good handles for a wing.
He's an improving shooter with solid form. I'd think the Mavs probably see that continuing to improve and that they can work on that a bit.
He's got the physical tools to be a really good defender. He is not yet by any means. And maybe he won't be but he's also been on bad teams that don't play defense. I think he's got the potential to actually be a plus defender if he wants to be. Again he may not want to be that type of guy.
And lastly he's very athletic and a slashing type. I'd have to think the Mavs want more of that moving forward to not rely on shooting jumpers so much. IMO the biggest thing holding Oubre back offensively is that he's not yet figured out how to really excel off ball unless he's spotting up for a shot. He's way too athletic to not be a huge threat to cutting to the basket. If you check the advanced stats in those areas, his game is completely non existent.
In a normal offseason I'd be chomping at the bit to get Oubre but it's hard to imagine a huge improvement with a shortened offseason. You don't have 3-4 months to work with him but 3-4 weeks.
For 31, sure. 18 and DFS are a no-go, not for a 1-year rental. I expected a bigger leap from him and that's never materialized. maybe he's never been in the right situation. If he's bound and determined to be a free agent and we still like him, chase him next year.
(11-11-2020, 07:25 PM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]superstars
Cuban would disagree with the plural there.
There's no way we're stupid enough to trade DFS and #18 for Oubre straight up. I hope.
(11-11-2020, 07:18 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]RE the big CP3 rumor:
Seems like OKC wants the #10 pick and Phoenix wants to give them next year's 1st instead. Either way, the draft pick seems to be headed to OKC from reading the tea leaves.
OKC doesnt want either Rubio or Oubre.
LAC want Rubio.
So the only conclusion I can draw is Oubre to Dallas. Dallas not getting #10.
The inclusion of DFS and/or #18 is the confusing part. Maybe that was a just an initial guess by the guy that reported the rumor. Maybe it's either/or. We'll give up either DFS or #18 in order to get rid of a bad contract. (Delon or Powell) I know people still would be upset at dumping either asset just to get rid of Delon.
The thing is in order to get Rubio you almost have to trade Beverley outgoing. I think you could make the cap work with Macgruder and Green and 1 or 2 of those young guys. But I'd think Clips would prefer to trade Beverley. If Rubio is replacing him and Lemon Pepper Lou is dominating the ball off the bench... Not much use for Bev anymore.
And there is a 0% chance Beverley is going to wind up on OKC. They absolutely hate him there. Public enemy #1. Fans would riot.
Not sure why DFS would even be singled out (which makes me think that part is BS).
There are scenarios where you need DFS for salary matching deals AND keeping THJ if you assume nobody is taking Powell and Wright off our hands. But that's with multiple players and wouldn't be worth mentioning just DFS.
(11-11-2020, 07:32 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]There's no way we're stupid enough to trade DFS and #18 for Oubre straight up. I hope.
I´d replace that with an OR.
(11-11-2020, 07:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 07:18 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]RE the big CP3 rumor:
Seems like OKC wants the #10 pick and Phoenix wants to give them next year's 1st instead. Either way, the draft pick seems to be headed to OKC from reading the tea leaves.
OKC doesnt want either Rubio or Oubre.
LAC want Rubio.
So the only conclusion I can draw is Oubre to Dallas. Dallas not getting #10.
The inclusion of DFS and/or #18 is the confusing part. Maybe that was a just an initial guess by the guy that reported the rumor. Maybe it's either/or. We'll give up either DFS or #18 in order to get rid of a bad contract. (Delon or Powell) I know people still would be upset at dumping either asset just to get rid of Delon.
The thing is in order to get Rubio you almost have to trade Beverley outgoing. I think you could make the cap work with Macgruder and Green and 1 or 2 of those young guys. But I'd think Clips would prefer to trade Beverley. If Rubio is replacing him and Lemon Pepper Lou is dominating the ball off the bench... Not much use for Bev anymore.
The rumblings I've seen online are that they do no want Lemmon Pepper Lou back.
(11-11-2020, 07:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 07:02 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]One reason the Mavs may like Oubre (Fish has reported Mavs liked him in Washington) is that he's shown the last few years that he's a pretty decent wing in the PNR being around the 70th percentile. That's not elite by any means. But for a 24 year old wing that was pretty raw coming out? I think that's pretty good with plenty of room to improve. He definitely has good handles for a wing.
He's an improving shooter with solid form. I'd think the Mavs probably see that continuing to improve and that they can work on that a bit.
He's got the physical tools to be a really good defender. He is not yet by any means. And maybe he won't be but he's also been on bad teams that don't play defense. I think he's got the potential to actually be a plus defender if he wants to be. Again he may not want to be that type of guy.
And lastly he's very athletic and a slashing type. I'd have to think the Mavs want more of that moving forward to not rely on shooting jumpers so much. IMO the biggest thing holding Oubre back offensively is that he's not yet figured out how to really excel off ball unless he's spotting up for a shot. He's way too athletic to not be a huge threat to cutting to the basket. If you check the advanced stats in those areas, his game is completely non existent.
In a normal offseason I'd be chomping at the bit to get Oubre but it's hard to imagine a huge improvement with a shortened offseason. You don't have 3-4 months to work with him but 3-4 weeks.
For 31, sure. 18 and DFS are a no-go, not for a 1-year rental. I expected a bigger leap from him and that's never materialized. maybe he's never been in the right situation. If he's bound and determined to be a free agent and we still like him, chase him next year.
Well the reason you should make the move now is that you can go over the cap to sign him next summer. If you do indeed get rid of Powell and Wright this offseason, I believe you are going to be able to squeeze in keeping one of Curry and Kleber and having max cap space while retaining the bird rights to Oubre. It's just rough math in my head so don't quote me on that ha.
Basically you get a max free agent commit, ship off Kleber or Curry and then sign Oubre to whatever # is necessary to keep him. Of course if you don't think he is getting over 15 mill than it doesn't really matter.
Of course all of that is off the table if you got to take Bev.
(11-11-2020, 07:23 PM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe a Harrell S&T ?
As discussed, this is a draft day deal. Too many moving parts to wait for a S&T that may/may not happen.
BTW, I would definitely dispute the idea that Oubre is better than DFS. DFS beats him on RPM, Box +/- and PIPM. Raptor likes Oubre better. Put that all together and then add the fact Oubre is a rental and makes 4X what Finney makes. I don't think it is close. The real question here is whether 18/DFS (locked in at low dollars) is worth 10/Rental. Not what we think, but what OKC thinks. If OKC likes someone who will be there at 18, then they would MUCH rather have DFS than Oubre who would leave as soon as he could.
(11-11-2020, 05:25 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 05:22 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Hate to say it, but I can definitely see the Beverly/Oubre combo being a Mavs move.
That was Dan's own idea....I was talking about the poster that had the Mavs swapping 18 and 10.
I don't believe I ever put Beverley and Oubre together in a deal to Dallas. The outgoing needed is either too painful or unrealistic.
The Dallas angle is cap clearing and pick improvement. I actually think everyone gets what they want in this. Phoenix gets CP3. Dallas clears DFS/Wright and improves their pick (I wonder if this is similar to the discussion around Fournier. It would mean Dallas has a type). OKC gets 18, DFS, Wright and Rubio. But they don't want Rubio, so that gets flipped to Beverley and Shamet. They keep Shamet and flip Beverley to a contender at the TDL.
In the end, instead of Oubre (rental), Rubio and 10 for CP3, they get 18, DFS, Wright, Shamet and whatever they get when they flip Beverley. It is truly brilliant for OKC.
BTW, it is kind of fun to go away and see the ebb and flow of the board a few hours later.
BTW II, forget about THJ being included here. I think the science on that one is probably settled (sorry, couldn't help myself)
(11-11-2020, 07:42 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 07:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ] (11-11-2020, 07:02 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]One reason the Mavs may like Oubre (Fish has reported Mavs liked him in Washington) is that he's shown the last few years that he's a pretty decent wing in the PNR being around the 70th percentile. That's not elite by any means. But for a 24 year old wing that was pretty raw coming out? I think that's pretty good with plenty of room to improve. He definitely has good handles for a wing.
He's an improving shooter with solid form. I'd think the Mavs probably see that continuing to improve and that they can work on that a bit.
He's got the physical tools to be a really good defender. He is not yet by any means. And maybe he won't be but he's also been on bad teams that don't play defense. I think he's got the potential to actually be a plus defender if he wants to be. Again he may not want to be that type of guy.
And lastly he's very athletic and a slashing type. I'd have to think the Mavs want more of that moving forward to not rely on shooting jumpers so much. IMO the biggest thing holding Oubre back offensively is that he's not yet figured out how to really excel off ball unless he's spotting up for a shot. He's way too athletic to not be a huge threat to cutting to the basket. If you check the advanced stats in those areas, his game is completely non existent.
In a normal offseason I'd be chomping at the bit to get Oubre but it's hard to imagine a huge improvement with a shortened offseason. You don't have 3-4 months to work with him but 3-4 weeks.
For 31, sure. 18 and DFS are a no-go, not for a 1-year rental. I expected a bigger leap from him and that's never materialized. maybe he's never been in the right situation. If he's bound and determined to be a free agent and we still like him, chase him next year.
Well the reason you should make the move now is that you can go over the cap to sign him next summer. If you do indeed get rid of Powell and Wright this offseason, I believe you are going to be able to squeeze in keeping one of Curry and Kleber and having max cap space while retaining the bird rights to Oubre. It's just rough math in my head so don't quote me on that ha.
Basically you get a max free agent commit, ship off Kleber or Curry and then sign Oubre to whatever # is necessary to keep him. Of course if you don't think he is getting over 15 mill than it doesn't really matter.
Of course all of that is off the table if you got to take Bev.
That's a good point but you'd have to have more confidence in Oubre working out than I do. As of today, I prefer DFS who has shown continued improvement and is on a controlled/affordable contract. I think I also prefer the 18th pick lottery ticket over the Oubre blossoming lottery ticket because again, you'll control that player for 4 years. Now let me stick my fingers in my ears as everyone reminds me of the MBT drafting prowess
I can see us getting off of Wright but I don't think we can get off of Powell.
(11-11-2020, 07:47 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Just hard for me to imagine with how much Presti values draft picks and how little our front office values draft picks, that we somehow end up with #10.
Maybe a side benefit is it takes us out of the running for Poku-man. If OKC likes him as reported, they may see Dallas as a threat. This way they don't have to waste assets jumping us in the draft.
BTW, when I say Dallas has a type, the thing Oubre and Fournier have in common is they are good enough to not be a big step backwards in 2020 and expire in time for 2021. It is the poster child for a HIBW's deal.
OKC is going to need some roster space.
(11-11-2020, 07:50 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]It is the poster child for a HIBW's deal.
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