(09-08-2020, 01:02 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What if we thought of LaMarcus as a cap clearing measure and combine a couple of the ideas above. I think White would be a great fit here. I would do #18 for him and his RFA rights and small cap hold in 21. One year of Aldridge would be nice and if that part of the deal were Wright, Jackson and Maxi, I could live with it. SA gets a good player (Maxi) and Dallas wipes out $17mm in cap commitments for 21.
SA can then combine their pick and 18 to move up and get another high end starter. Maxi would be a great fit next to Poeltl. Think of it this way, White is probably more or at least equal value to Maxi and you are giving up #18 to get rid of $17mm of cap commitments. More palatable?
Can't believe I'm about to say this, but are we sure the team isn't significantly worse by moving Kleber out and Aldridge in? I mean, I get that the point of this deal is cap clearing, but idk if I'm ready to sacrifice a season to accomplish that.
Aldridge doesn't have range, isn't really a rim running threat, would want the ball (in the mid-range, clogging things up for Luka), doesn't seem like a difference maker on defense, etc, etc, etc. I mean, I'd probably be all about it if there was no KP, but I don't think those two could play together. Like, at all. Aldridge also doesn't have a super great history of being the ultimate team player when things don't go his way. The Mavs culture is super great right now.
Kind of smacks of Antawn Jamison + Anotoine Walker to me.
(09-08-2020, 01:04 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 01:02 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 11:43 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I don't know who comes up with this crappy Mavs ideas. Trade for Bev will not happen as both sides had their chance in 2019 free agency and didn't take it. And we are certainly not giving up Kleber for him.
Now, the deal under Denver is something completely different. #22, Morris and Diop for Derrick White. I guess #18, #31 and Jackson tops that offer.
But no, idiots think we are willing to give up Kleber and #18 for Aldridge...
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2907...y-nba-team
What if we thought of LaMarcus as a cap clearing measure and combine a couple of the ideas above. I think White would be a great fit here. I would do #18 for him and his RFA rights and small cap hold in 21. One year of Aldridge would be nice and if that part of the deal were Wright, Jackson and Maxi, I could live with it. SA gets a good player (Maxi) and Dallas wipes out $17mm in cap commitments for 21.
SA can then combine their pick and 18 to move up and get another high end starter. Maxi would be a great fit next to Poeltl. Think of it this way, White is probably more or at least equal value to Maxi and you are giving up #18 to get rid of $17mm of cap commitments. More palatable?
I'd say yes, but it's the Spurs. They would find a way to make the trade a win-win-win for them. Like their pick being the next Kawhi or something.
So if we could read the future and we new that the player taken with the 18th pick would become an all-star in his 5th year. Would we keep the pick?
(09-08-2020, 01:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 01:02 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What if we thought of LaMarcus as a cap clearing measure and combine a couple of the ideas above. I think White would be a great fit here. I would do #18 for him and his RFA rights and small cap hold in 21. One year of Aldridge would be nice and if that part of the deal were Wright, Jackson and Maxi, I could live with it. SA gets a good player (Maxi) and Dallas wipes out $17mm in cap commitments for 21.
SA can then combine their pick and 18 to move up and get another high end starter. Maxi would be a great fit next to Poeltl. Think of it this way, White is probably more or at least equal value to Maxi and you are giving up #18 to get rid of $17mm of cap commitments. More palatable?
Can't believe I'm about to say this, but are we sure the team isn't significantly worse by moving Kleber out and Aldridge in? I mean, I get that the point of this deal is cap clearing, but idk if I'm ready to sacrifice a season to accomplish that.
Aldridge doesn't have range, isn't really a rim running threat, would want the ball (in the mid-range, clogging things up for Luka), doesn't seem like a difference maker on defense, etc, etc, etc. I mean, I'd probably be all about it if there was no KP, but I don't think those two could play together. Like, at all. Aldridge also doesn't have a super great history of being the ultimate team player when things don't go his way. The Mavs culture is super great right now.
I don’t really disagree with much of that. More a means to an end. I can see KP and LA on the floor at the same time. I’m more worried about the impact on Luka. I could certainly see LA as the focus of the bench offense when Luka sits. I can see some limited time with Luka and LA on the floor together. But, as I said, this is a one year band-aide...Plan: Have it Both Ways. I have no idea how difficult it will be to move Wright.
Two things that are intriguing here. Dallas knows LA well. He works out at the team facility during the summer. Also, Aldridge and White are both Excel (Schwartz) clients.
(09-08-2020, 01:02 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What if we thought of LaMarcus as a cap clearing measure and combine a couple of the ideas above.
I proposed similar idea a while ago with both DeRozan and Aldridge. DeRozan as starter, Aldridge as first big from the bench. Resign them for 10 mil in 2021 and bring in Giannis. Who says no?
(09-08-2020, 11:59 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]This would mean we didn't have picked in three years- last, this and next and then give them all away again. Whom are we targeting then?
To be fair it doesn't really matter if the Mavs hadn't had a draft pick in 3 years, since rookies rarely if ever make an impact on a championship team. When was the last time a rookie had a game changing/defining impact on a playoff team that pushes a team over the edge? Tim Duncan?
So the Mavs if they did that hypothetical deal would be "picking" Julius Randle for their pick this year. Now Julius Randle isn't a perfect player by any means and he doesn't slide into the Mavs team as easily as someone like RoCo or Aaron Gordon, BUT he would probably be better than 57 out of the 60 picks this year.
And the Mavs get out of a bad contract with Wright, get a 4 mil buyout for 2021, and get a big forward that can be an offensive powerhouse.
Plus, it seems by all accounts plenty of teams are selling their late picks this draft. Mavs could theoretically buy a late first rounder or a mid 2nd rounder and nab a prospect anyways if they so desired.
(09-08-2020, 01:41 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 01:02 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What if we thought of LaMarcus as a cap clearing measure and combine a couple of the ideas above.
I proposed similar idea a while ago with both DeRozan and Aldridge. DeRozan as starter, Aldridge as first big from the bench. Resign them for 10 mil in 2021 and bring in Giannis. Who says no?
Honestly DeRozan makes more sense than Aldridge on this team. He doesn't have range, but DeRozan as a 3rd option lethal slasher paired with Luka and KP? That's pretty intriguing. Especially if it nets the Mavs a guy like Derrick White.
THJ+Maxi+Wright+Jackson for Demar+Aldridge+White. Seems like the Mavs are taking the best parts of the Spurs and giving them spare parts while maintaining flexibility for 2021.
Or they could split the difference and do THJ+Wright+18+31 for Demar+White. Doing so would leave the Mavs at around 34 million in salary if the cap is 115 if they renounced all contracts.. I believe Giannis' max would be 35,900,000 if the cap is 115. So all it'd take is a quick waive of Brunson or another small trade of literally anyone and they'd be right there.
I think it'd be the perfect Plan "Have Both Ways" since DeRozan makes some sense here and the Mavs get a Brunson replacement if need be.
(09-08-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 11:59 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]This would mean we didn't have picked in three years- last, this and next and then give them all away again. Whom are we targeting then?
To be fair it doesn't really matter if the Mavs hadn't had a draft pick in 3 years, since rookies rarely if ever make an impact on a championship team. When was the last time a rookie had a game changing/defining impact on a playoff team that pushes a team over the edge? Tim Duncan?
So the Mavs if they did that hypothetical deal would be "picking" Julius Randle for their pick this year. Now Julius Randle isn't a perfect player by any means and he doesn't slide into the Mavs team as easily as someone like RoCo or Aaron Gordon, BUT he would probably be better than 57 out of the 60 picks this year.
And the Mavs get out of a bad contract with Wright, get a 4 mil buyout for 2021, and get a big forward that can be an offensive powerhouse.
Plus, it seems by all accounts plenty of teams are selling their late picks this draft. Mavs could theoretically buy a late first rounder or a mid 2nd rounder and nab a prospect anyways if they so desired.
That would be Rondo - Bäh - why did you even ask xD.
But players on their rookie contracts would recently be OG and Pascal and Barnes and Green.
I'm fine with trading the pick for a player.
But not for cap clearing or hope on a big fish 2 years from now.
I would be fine with having no cap for the next 15 years.
I trust the MBT to know better about the drafties then me. And I trust them even more in using middling assets to trade for a starter or get one from the garbage bin with the MLE.
I don't trust them in getting a starter worth his money if they have amounts of capspace.
(09-08-2020, 01:41 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 01:02 PM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]What if we thought of LaMarcus as a cap clearing measure and combine a couple of the ideas above.
I proposed similar idea a while ago with both DeRozan and Aldridge. DeRozan as starter, Aldridge as first big from the bench. Resign them for 10 mil in 2021 and bring in Giannis. Who says no?
Aldridge is not good defensively, neither is DeRozan. They are both good players in their own right but Mavs don't need to just get talent, they need to find either a 3rd star or role players that serve a specific role on the team. DeRozan and Aldridge don't do that. Not sure I follow what we'd be sending to match salaries but I am pretty confident Mavs would not do any kind of deal that would result in those two being sent to the Mavs.
(09-08-2020, 08:47 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I like that idea a lot. I would go one step further.
DAL trades: Wright+18+31 to NYK for Randle+'23 DAL 1st. Mavs get their big bully type dude that has been an offensive nightmare off the bench his last 3 years, AND get to remove their shackles on trades. Maybe NYK would be dumb enough to throw 38 in there too.
This is a meh trade to me. Why do the Mavs want Randle for 1 year? He is redundant with Powell who is already our buckets big off the bench going forward (hopefully). Randle can put up a lot more points but gives you nothing defensively. Mavs need defense in their starting lineup.
(09-08-2020, 02:48 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]That would be Rondo - Bäh - why did you even ask xD.
Rondo wasn't a rookie when the Celts got their core. They went to the finals in 08, Rondo's 2nd year. I haven't researched it but I'm pretty confident it was Tim Duncan just off hand. Just goes to show how rare it is a rookie can come in a turn a good team into a title contender team.
(09-08-2020, 02:48 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]But players on their rookie contracts would recently be OG and Pascal and Barnes and Green.
I'm fine with trading the pick for a player.
But not for cap clearing or hope on a big fish 2 years from now.
I would be fine with having no cap for the next 15 years.
And that's fair. Having impact players on rookie deals is legitimately the best scenario a team could ask for. The fact Luka is on his rookie deal is the only reason why we're shooting for a max player.
But I think we differ on the cap clearing part. I am more in the boat of keeping the opportunities open if they're worth it. 2x MVP and DPOY in his prime is certainly worth it. I wouldn't be against the Mavs making a trade that doesn't preserve 2021 capspace as long as the piece is 1. worth the risk of losing the Giannis opportunity and can be easily moved in case Giannis does want to come here.
(09-08-2020, 03:42 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]This is a meh trade to me. Why do the Mavs want Randle for 1 year? He is redundant with Powell who is already our buckets big off the bench going forward (hopefully). Randle can put up a lot more points but gives you nothing defensively. Mavs need defense in their starting lineup.
All good points. I was more focusing on the Mavs being able to trade multiple picks much earlier with that trade, and how it frees up the shackles in trading moreso than Randle himself. He's almost an afterthought.
Not to say he's bad. He's a lethal scorer that can be a 20ppg guy off the bench. We haven't had that since JET. He wouldn't be any worse than Powell and be a better guy to lead the 2nd unit.
But after thinking about it this trade isn't THAT good. It's meh for sure. It wouldn't be in my first top 15 trades. But it's certainly a route.
I know this is not possible but I think there are a few super stars in this draft. I know the Mavericks do not have much to move up but if we could package resources I will be all in on going after USC big man Onyeka Okongwu.
I think this kid is going to be a superstar and may slide in the top 10. One of the things we don't have is a big guy that can score on the inside. We are too perimeter oriented and rely to much on Luka's playmaking. This is a guy that you can throw it inside to and can score. I think you can slide him into the 4 spot as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1qUx5SwhXA&t=350s
(09-08-2020, 07:10 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I know this is not possible but I think there are a few super stars in this draft. I know the Mavericks do not have much to move up but if we could package resources I will be all in on going after USC big man Onyeka Okongwu.
I think this kid is going to be a superstar and may slide in the top 10. One of the things we don't have is a big guy that can score on the inside. We are too perimeter oriented and rely to much on Luka's playmaking. This is a guy that you can throw it inside to and can score. I think you can slide him into the 4 spot as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1qUx5SwhXA&t=350s
It's an interesting idea, but I have to ask why would the Mavs invest in what little they have left in tradeable assets to move up and select a big man, when the league is trending further and further away from any sort of big guy on the floor?
On top of that the risk that comes with investing those assets to go and hope a rookie develops into something seems like focusing on the wrong thing. Another question is to ask, does a team that wants to take the next step in contending really want to rely on a rookie to bring them there? I made a post earlier saying the last time any rookie had a major impact on taking a team to the next level was Tim Duncan. It rarely, if ever, happens.
Lastly, this all depends on how much it costs to move up. If all it costs is say 18+31 and Wright to select someone like Okongwu? Well I'd be mad if the Mavs didn't go for that. But I doubt it'd be so easy. Also, I would totally change my tune if Luka wasn't as good as he is right now. The dude just put up 30/10/10 on 50% shooting in the dang playoffs. He's the most win-now dude I've ever seen. Waiting on a rookie to develop and hope he becomes the guy the Mavs need seems like wasted time.
It's funny because I like Okongwu. I think he has a better chance than most in this draft to be something in this league, but I don't know if he'd get fair chance on the Mavs to get there.
(09-08-2020, 10:25 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 07:10 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I know this is not possible but I think there are a few super stars in this draft. I know the Mavericks do not have much to move up but if we could package resources I will be all in on going after USC big man Onyeka Okongwu.
I think this kid is going to be a superstar and may slide in the top 10. One of the things we don't have is a big guy that can score on the inside. We are too perimeter oriented and rely to much on Luka's playmaking. This is a guy that you can throw it inside to and can score. I think you can slide him into the 4 spot as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1qUx5SwhXA&t=350s
It's an interesting idea, but I have to ask why would the Mavs invest in what little they have left in tradeable assets to move up and select a big man, when the league is trending further and further away from any sort of big guy on the floor?
On top of that the risk that comes with investing those assets to go and hope a rookie develops into something seems like focusing on the wrong thing. Another question is to ask, does a team that wants to take the next step in contending really want to rely on a rookie to bring them there? I made a post earlier saying the last time any rookie had a major impact on taking a team to the next level was Tim Duncan. It rarely, if ever, happens.
Lastly, this all depends on how much it costs to move up. If all it costs is say 18+31 and Wright to select someone like Okongwu? Well I'd be mad if the Mavs didn't go for that. But I doubt it'd be so easy. Also, I would totally change my tune if Luka wasn't as good as he is right now. The dude just put up 30/10/10 on 50% shooting in the dang playoffs. He's the most win-now dude I've ever seen. Waiting on a rookie to develop and hope he becomes the guy the Mavs need seems like wasted time.
It's funny because I like Okongwu. I think he has a better chance than most in this draft to be something in this league, but I don't know if he'd get fair chance on the Mavs to get there.
I think Luka is over utilized. I do not see us winning a championship with Luka having to do as much as he has to do. Although I do agree that the game is changing, you have to look at the teams that are still left. The teams that are still left have guys that do not have to rely on perimeter scoring like we do. They also have tough top notch defenders.
The Clippers have Montrez and the Lakers have AD. The Nuggets have a few guys that can score in the mid range and in the half court.
If our threes are not falling we are a pretty average to below average team.
The Championship team had the Dirk version that could play in the post. We do not have a playoff offense other than Luka being Luka.
(09-08-2020, 10:25 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ] (09-08-2020, 07:10 PM)Omega_Supreme Wrote: [ -> ]I know this is not possible but I think there are a few super stars in this draft. I know the Mavericks do not have much to move up but if we could package resources I will be all in on going after USC big man Onyeka Okongwu.
I think this kid is going to be a superstar and may slide in the top 10. One of the things we don't have is a big guy that can score on the inside. We are too perimeter oriented and rely to much on Luka's playmaking. This is a guy that you can throw it inside to and can score. I think you can slide him into the 4 spot as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n1qUx5SwhXA&t=350s
It's an interesting idea, but I have to ask why would the Mavs invest in what little they have left in tradeable assets to move up and select a big man, when the league is trending further and further away from any sort of big guy on the floor?
On top of that the risk that comes with investing those assets to go and hope a rookie develops into something seems like focusing on the wrong thing. Another question is to ask, does a team that wants to take the next step in contending really want to rely on a rookie to bring them there? I made a post earlier saying the last time any rookie had a major impact on taking a team to the next level was Tim Duncan. It rarely, if ever, happens.
Lastly, this all depends on how much it costs to move up. If all it costs is say 18+31 and Wright to select someone like Okongwu? Well I'd be mad if the Mavs didn't go for that. But I doubt it'd be so easy. Also, I would totally change my tune if Luka wasn't as good as he is right now. The dude just put up 30/10/10 on 50% shooting in the dang playoffs. He's the most win-now dude I've ever seen. Waiting on a rookie to develop and hope he becomes the guy the Mavs need seems like wasted time.
It's funny because I like Okongwu. I think he has a better chance than most in this draft to be something in this league, but I don't know if he'd get fair chance on the Mavs to get there.
Thing is, I see other franchises able to start and incorporate rookies in their starting lineups all the time. I think it speaks poorly to the Mavs' talent scouting and coaching staffs that we as a fan base can't count on them to do that. No rookie that we would draft (whether at 18 or even at the first pick) in this draft would be counted on to be more than our third-best player at best. All we're looking for, whether in draft, trade, or free agency, is a couple of guys who are better than our legion of objective bench-level players who play alongside Luka, KP (when he's healthy), THJ (who cannot be part of the future and had better not be here by the 2020-2021 TDL, since he plays inadequate defense in the starting lineup of a team which includes Luka Doncic), and DFS (who might be fine as the fifth-best starter, and will probably have to be).
Folks who think we're expecting too much, in terms of talent at least, from a rookie in this year's draft are choosing to be willfully ignorant of how bad this roster is outside of Luka and KP. I like many of the other players a great deal, but none of those guys is competent to be the third or fourth best player on a contending team. Considering that I've already shipped out THJ in my roster planning for the next year or two, I don't think that it's too much to ask that we find a way to get two players better than Dorian freaking-Finney-Smith. What we need is 1) for Donnie to identify the player who can contribute right away (draft for floor and readiness, as well as defense and shooting) and 2) for our coach to have the fundamental acumen to find ways for a young guy to succeed in a winning context. I have a little bit of confidence in #1, and virtually none in #2. Remember that the Harris-Howard-Daniels year was ***not*** with RC as our coach.
That being the case, you likely win this argument, and the Mavs should trade their pick, which was probably your point all along.
Come to think of it, that's always been one of my head-scratchers as a Mavs fan. I think that we get so bogged-down in the frustration of losing a guy who went on to be the two-time MVP that we lose sight of what a great job Nellie did of recuperating and building a ***team*** - Dirk, Finley, Terry, Howard, Harris, Dampier, Stackhouse, and Daniels. I'd love to have the talent level of those last six guys around Luka and KP.
If Milwaukee trades for CP3, we should go after George Hill (he will have to be included in the trade to match salaries). Still excellent defender, veteran leader and best three point shooter last season. I am not sure how much of his last year is guaranteed. Wright+#31 (or a couple of future seconds) should be enough. OKC has no need for him, if they are rebuilding. We can also take Ilyasova for Jackson.
I'll take Hill, if we can turn around and trade him for Kawhi.
(09-09-2020, 02:49 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]If Milwaukee trades for CP3, we should go after George Hill (he will have to be included in the trade to match salaries). Still excellent defender, veteran leader and best three point shooter last season. I am not sure how much of his last year is guaranteed. Wright+#31 (or a couple of future seconds) should be enough. OKC has no need for him, if they are rebuilding. We can also take Ilyasova for Jackson.
I guess they´ll have to do something like that, but how much better are you without Bledsoe, Hill, Ilyasova, DiVincenzo and whatever future picks you have to give up?
CP3
Matthews
Middleton
Giannis
Lopez
Bench: Korver, Connaughton.
Okay I guess you have to try everything now, you´ll get 7-8 deep with some ring chasers. Makes sense. SOLD. CP3 to Bucks it is.
For the Spurs ideas,
I don´t even know how deep you have to go with the offer. DeRozan (and especially 36 year old LMA) are on expiring contracts and unlikely to re-sign. Only reason Spurs won´t go into rebuild mode is doing Popovich like that.
The thing about DeRozan is that you´ll need to create some additional capspace for 2021 to re-sign him. I´d try to clearly define his terms, IF we manage to get a max player in 2021 (like the old Matthews plan). In that case I´d be willing to let go of Curry and Kleber. You dump Powell/Wright, you can probably get to 20M/year for DeRozan while keeping max capspace for Giannis.
Muppet mode activated.
(09-09-2020, 03:28 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]without Bledsoe, Hill, Ilyasova
I guess it would be those three and no DiVincenzo. Wilson and/or the other Lopez to match salaries.
(09-09-2020, 04:25 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (09-09-2020, 03:28 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]without Bledsoe, Hill, Ilyasova
I guess it would be those three and no DiVincenzo. Wilson and/or the other Lopez to match salaries.
Why would the Thunder agree to that? They already have seven million draft picks from the PG13 and CP3 trade. I doubt Bucks picks are high on their priority list.
Looked it up
#24 pick from Pacers in 2020
Bucks 1st round pick in 2021
No 1st round pick 2022 -- > to Cavs
Can´t trade 1st round pick 2023
So you are not getting a pick higher than #24 until 2024. I don´t see why the Thunder agree to that, unless they get DiVincenzo.
Even the Mavs can easily beat a Bucks offer without DiVincenzo, and I´m sure plenty others could, too.
What about
Ross
Fultz
Bamba
+ Magic 1st this year
for CP 3
Orlando
CP3/Fournier/Gordon/Isaac/Vucevic
Bench: 6th man Aminu
That sure beats anything Milwaukee could put together.
(09-09-2020, 04:42 AM)Mavs2019 Wrote: [ -> ]Why would the Thunder agree to that?
Well, CP3 is still owed 85 million in the next two seasons and I doubt teams will be form a line to trade for him. I see Philly with Horford and Richardson as the only serious player.
From the Milwaukee bunch OKC can easily flip Hill. Bledsoe, Wilson and Ilyasova could perhaps also be flipped for some worse salaries and second rounders.
From the Philly offer they could trade Richardson for some more convenient long term assets - I doubt it would make sense for both sides to resign in 2021. I doubt there would be any takers for Horford.
I don't see that Orlando trade. Salaries are not matching, Orlando would go well into tax.