MavsBoard

So if you are on the fence about wanting Bogdan I was thinking last night that it's really about upping your assets is why you should go after him. 

If you accept the assumption that Donte=Brunson, Illyasova= Wright + an extra year of similar salary, DJ Wilson=Justin Jackson than the Mavs can actually offer a similar trade to the one the Kings were willing to do. Maybe you have to add in a small asset to clinch that. But I don't think that deal is all that far off from the one they agreed to. Some of y'all hate on Brunson alot but yet I hear stuff last night about what a find he was for the Mavs in the 2nd round. I think he's more respected than you think sort of like Donte. 

But say sign Bogdan to a 20 mill a year deal that's a huge asset upgrade IMO. The Kings have showed their cards and don't have the negotiating power to really make you buy that they will match an offer if you just clear the cap space. A great time to take advantage and get an asset upgrade. 

My next thought was that I think he takes a step up here. I'll be fascinated to see how much and how quickly. 
But my next thought was what if he immediately gets a big boost to his #s and improves his shooting with all his open looks he'll have? 

Bogdan at 20 mill, THJ at 20 mill and Richardson at 11 mill with the last 2 likely expiring. You have ALOT of money you can take and you now have an attractive asset in a trade at the deadline. Add in 2025 and 2027 and maybe that's enough to get a big name in trade. Also if you hit on your draft picks at all for this year and they show something... That's even more to add.

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(11-19-2020, 12:40 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 12:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Jae stays in Miami. I've thought so all along. Miami has plenty of cap room for him.

What everyone seems to be leaving out with Crowder is that he seemed very butthurt with RC by the time he was traded. I doubt he'd want to come back here, and only for a deal well over the MLE (i.e. way over market value) if he did.

I have been thinking that at as well. I seemed to recall Crowder not being happy here.

Well, everyone recovered from being Rubio prepared...Killer you need to make a statement or anything

(11-19-2020, 12:39 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 12:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Jae stays in Miami. I've thought so all along. Miami has plenty of cap room for him.

Depends on whether they're ready to give up on Giannis or not. Crowder isn't signing for one year. If he wants, I bet he can grab an overpay in ATL, Charlotte or NY (any of them). I would like to hope that he'd prefer an MLE deal for a contender, and he'll have many suitors for that. 

But yeah, if Miami is ready to offer the right deal I think he goes back.

Miami only has 48 mill + Bam's cap hold which is pretty reasonable + whatever they pay Dragic and Jones. 
They have all the space to make moves this summer and retain room for Giannis. 
But I think the Giannis thing is done in about 48 hours.

(11-19-2020, 12:48 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I seemed to recall Crowder not being happy here.

I also remember him talking about his love for Dallas long after being traded. Loving the team/city, and being frustrated with his role are not mutually exclusive.

(11-19-2020, 12:40 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 12:38 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Ibaka fits the criteria of both sides of the ball too. averaged 15 ppg on 38% shooting from 3. 
He's a one trick defensive guy but at a position of need. The question is if he will be available at the MLE. 
I'm skeptical. 

But Millsap or Ibaka at the MLE would be a huge get.

Rumors say Ibaka to the Nets.

You had reports saying Bogdan to Bucks lol. 
Rumors mean nothing. But I do think if he's available for MLE he goes to the Nets. Although will he be promised a starting job? IF not he'll be guaranteed of more playing time elsewhere. Perhaps not even the Mavs.

I can't imagine being on the fence if Bogdan is gettable. That seems like a bird in the hand versus two in the bush scenario.

Millsap or Ibaka would be great. Tucker would also be great. Some other guys that aren't household names will also be gettable should we not land a bigger piece. I don't think we need a Bog/Hayward type move right now unless we get a great deal.

(11-19-2020, 12:49 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Well, everyone recovered from being Rubio prepared...Killer you need to make a statement or anything

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(11-19-2020, 12:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I can't imagine being on the fence if Bogdan is gettable.  That seems like a bird in the hand versus two in the bush scenario.

I'll say this: IF the Mavs look at him and think he's that 3rd guy/secondary ball-handling star, then sure - STRIKE NOW. 

I just don't think we can assume they see him that way. But, at this point, whatever THEY think about him is trustable for me.

(11-19-2020, 12:52 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 12:39 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 12:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Jae stays in Miami. I've thought so all along. Miami has plenty of cap room for him.

Depends on whether they're ready to give up on Giannis or not. Crowder isn't signing for one year. If he wants, I bet he can grab an overpay in ATL, Charlotte or NY (any of them). I would like to hope that he'd prefer an MLE deal for a contender, and he'll have many suitors for that. 

But yeah, if Miami is ready to offer the right deal I think he goes back.

Miami only has 48 mill + Bam's cap hold which is pretty reasonable + whatever they pay Dragic and Jones. 
They have all the space to make moves this summer and retain room for Giannis. 
But I think the Giannis thing is done in about 48 hours.

I've read that they're going to go hard after Gallo.  If Giannis is off the table, they might up the money.   They really got exposed when Dragic was hurt how much the depended on him to get buckets.

(11-19-2020, 12:33 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]More random thoughts...

So many ways the Mavs could go. I think that any major move that brings in guy number 3 (see how Omahen worked off of my copyright   ) is going to require a trade with the use of future draft compensation. 

As others have pointed out, and in contradiction to Jason Terry (the poster), no rookie of worth has ever not signed the initial max deal when their rookie contract ended. I thought Hayward was the exception, but that was when his first max expired. Ergo, "waiting until Luka signs his max" is not a thing that would prevent trading future firsts. 

THJ's decision today has a lot to do with whether we operate as an over-the-cap team or under-the-cap. I presume he opts in. Unless the MBT are abject fools willing to bid against themselves, I think that his next deal is going to be far smaller, averaging or starting at $13 mil max. His NYK experience exposed him as not being worth the big money. I'm not a fan of his long-term fit here, *at all.* Inadequate creator, not much defense. Doesn't fit in a Luka starting lineup, and too expensive (in the future as well as now) to bring off the bench. I'm fine with him being here next year, but I think he needs to be sent out now or at the trade deadline for guy number 3. We'll see if I'm wrong. 

Re: Donnie's "both sides of the ball" thing - I think that could mean 1) guy number three is an all-offense guy like Gallo or Hield, or 2) a two-way player. I think that Gallo is the one guy out there, with the possible exception of Wood as has been pointed out, who doesn't necessitate THJ being sent out, but I also think that he's a piece that puts you in a position of "still not done yet" for 2021 - still need that secondary creator next to Luka. I think the two best possibly-realistic (non-FVV) options are Bogi and Wood (I am OUT on Hayward due to money and health, unless it's a straight-up for THJ on both guy's PO years, with either no extension or an extension at around half his current salary). I know the whole thing with Wood - "70 game sample size" - but the Mavs also know him well. Wood would obviously start the year as the starting five and then replace DFS at the four when KP returns. I think that that's a legit starting lineup, for sure, but still not a finished team because of Richardson being not quite good enough to be that second playmaker (Brunson? Burke? Tyrell?). In the case of Bogi, if THJ isn't sent out, then dang, I guess Luka is playing the four until we can send out THJ for a big wing or unless Tiger is ready to be our starting four.

I guess my overall evaluation would be, no, the Mavs aren't likely to have their contending lineup in place this year, but as long as they don't stand pat on Friday, they will have made a tremendous leap toward that from last season.

Not just waiting for Luka max but making sure KP isn’t big john wall. IF that were to happen and we already sent out picks for Gallo/Hayward/whoever, we could be screwed. I just think keeping the pick powder dry is important to have ammo to deal with whatever we need once this team faces disappointment at some point. Right now it’s all sunshine and puppies and we know from Dirk that we should’ve taken a longer term approach. We aren’t making the same mistake again

Both sides of the ball thing i think is code for two way players 

Get ready mavs fans. Some of you will be shocked at how well Richardson plays under Rick. I’m talking 4yrs/$100 million starting point for his next contract and we will pay it after our business is done. His caphold is so low that we have great flexibility. We could keep him and still make max space. First team all defense next year for Richardson. Rick will turn him into a better version of RoCo

Hardaway will be back at like $12 million a year if we don’t use the max space

(11-19-2020, 12:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I can't imagine being on the fence if Bogdan is gettable.  That seems like a bird in the hand versus two in the bush scenario.

I think he's clearly gettable. You just saw him get dealt for basically just Donte ha.

(11-19-2020, 12:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Well, everyone recovered from being Rubio prepared...Killer you need to make a statement or anything

Looks like YOU were not prepared!

(11-19-2020, 01:04 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Both sides of the ball thing i think is code for two way players 

Already a fan of a Luka/Rich/THJ/DFS/KP lineup. I think DFS is a spot you could potentially upgrade, whereby DFS would be moved to the bench. I like DFS a lot but you might be able to slide in Maxi into his spot or upgrade that spot with a FA. Millsap clearly would be a big upgrade we'd all be excited ab. Jae Crowder also I think would be an upgrade in the starting lineup.

What I like ab Maxi is that his D is better and he helps rebounding. If we are able to bring in more depth pieces (like an extra stretch big), then Rick doesn't feel compelled to keep Maxi on the bench. As it stands he usually likes Maxi to slide into KP's spot on the offense when KP is sitting which I think is one of the reasons we didn't see Maxi in the starting lineup much last year.

(11-19-2020, 12:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 12:49 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Well, everyone recovered from being Rubio prepared...Killer you need to make a statement or anything

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(11-19-2020, 12:55 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I can't imagine being on the fence if Bogdan is gettable.  That seems like a bird in the hand versus two in the bush scenario.

I'll say this: IF the Mavs look at him and think he's that 3rd guy/secondary ball-handling star, then sure - STRIKE NOW. 

I just don't think we can assume they see him that way. But, at this point, whatever THEY think about him is trustable for me.

Yeah they may not...
But he does run a ton of PNR. He's not elite in his #s there tho. But the fact he runs it so much still suggests its a role the coaching wants him to do and one he feels comfortable with. I'd think his #s would jump up quite a bit when he gets a roll guy. Kings personnel is not good for the PNR game. Fox has similar advanced #s. They are both around the 60th percentile. 

Also averages over 3 assists per game. 

To be fair the Mavs need to target a roll man too if WCS isn't resigned. 
But if there is one for sure thing about the Mavs its that a guard that can run the PNR is going to have his #s inflated here. That's why Trey Burke looked like a really good NBA player all of the sudden when given ample playing time ha.

(11-19-2020, 01:14 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Already a fan of a Luka/Rich/THJ/DFS/KP lineup. I think DFS is a spot you could potentially upgrade, whereby DFS would be moved to the bench. I like DFS a lot but you might be able to slide in Maxi into his spot or upgrade that spot with a FA. Millsap clearly would be a big upgrade we'd all be excited ab. Jae Crowder also I think would be an upgrade in the starting lineup.

What I like ab Maxi is that his D is better and he helps rebounding. If we are able to bring in more depth pieces (like an extra stretch big), then Rick doesn't feel compelled to keep Maxi on the bench. As it stands he usually likes Maxi to slide into KP's spot on the offense when KP is sitting which I think is one of the reasons we didn't see Maxi in the starting lineup much last year.

DFS as 6th man swiss army knife

One big plus on Richardson is that DFS becomes less important to the Mavs. 
You could argue outside of Luka and KP he was the single most important player on the team. 

I think trading him wouldn't be nearly as painful although I'm not looking to move up. But he has value so it should be on the table if it gets a deal done.

(11-19-2020, 01:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]One big plus on Richardson is that DFS becomes less important to the Mavs. 
You could argue outside of Luka and KP he was the single most important player on the team. 

I think trading him wouldn't be nearly as painful although I'm not looking to move up. But he has value so it should be on the table if it gets a deal done.

See, I don't see it that way. I get where you're coming from, but to me SBey would have accomplished this, not Richardson. I think Richardson is now the answer to Dame, Mitchell, Booker, Westbrook, and DFS is still George, Lebron, Kawhi, etc. 

I think they complement each other, defensively, and aren't all that redundant. 

I also think they're counting on DFS to provide even more of a shooting threat than they have in the past.

(11-19-2020, 01:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-19-2020, 01:35 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]One big plus on Richardson is that DFS becomes less important to the Mavs. 
You could argue outside of Luka and KP he was the single most important player on the team. 

I think trading him wouldn't be nearly as painful although I'm not looking to move up. But he has value so it should be on the table if it gets a deal done.

See, I don't see it that way. I get where you're coming from, but to me SBey would have accomplished this, not Richardson. I think Richardson is now the answer to Dame, Mitchell, Booker, Westbrook, and DFS is still George, Lebron, Kawhi, etc. 

I think they complement each other, defensively, and aren't all that redundant. 

I also think they're counting on DFS to provide even more of a shooting threat than they have in the past.

Yes. DFS only struggled against the smaller faster players. Rich gives us that guy. Richardson guards George. DFS guards Kawhi.