(11-07-2020, 09:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I realize it was a 3 team deal. But the Mavs were paying a 2nd round pick and cap space for him if that rumor was true. that's a trade into just cap space.
Even if cap space, it was to the benefit of NY, not Lakers. Lakers had to move him to get Morris.
(11-07-2020, 09:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]But this whole argument comes down to you thinking Delon is absolutely worthless and terrible here. And I think that is way off base. But to each their own.
I admit I really don't like him, but seems Carlisle shares my feelings
I am really kicking my head how his stats can be so good, because eye test was awful. He couldn't play with Luka and he couldn't run the bench unit efficiently. He was getting worse as season progressed. He didn't run offense a lot, but when he did, he reminded me so much of DSJ. Endless and pointless ball pounding without clear idea what to do. Aimless drives leading to lost balls from bad passes, gazillion passed opportunity to shoot the ball, endless pounding of the ball and pass to guarded someone like Kleber with 2 seconds on the clock leading to a desperation shot. He was mostly also nothing special on defense, apart from a couple of games he showed what he could be. If we take a neutral source as valuation of both guys (The Athletic ranking) - Green is in top 125, Wright is not. I think Green is doing stuff not shown in the stats. He was constantly guarding best opposing player and was good at it. His shooting percentage was below career average but teams are not really leaving him wide open - he is spreading the floor. Wright had higher percentage on the paper but teams didn't really care about that.
(11-07-2020, 09:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, so I guess we just have different definitions of the word “prime” when used in this context. Not really important.
Luka isn’t going to win the MVP this season, btw.
Yeah Luka hasn't hit his prime yet. I maintain he's going to be a much better shooter one day. And then he'll just be insane.
Luka won't be the MVP if the Mavs don't take a major step up next year. He'll have the #s. He had the #s this year and was in the talk for it at least.
It'll be Luka, Lebron, Kawhi, Giannis, Harden, AD, Steph, Dame (at least if he plays like he did at the end of last year).
If the Mavs are looking like contenders with Luka's insane #s, it's hard to see him not being right there for it.
But that's a big if with the contenders. And Luka won't be an MVP until Mavs are contenders.
Right. The fact that he’s in the conversation is INSANE and amazing. We’re the luckiest fans in the world.
But the TEAM is far, far from being good enough to support that level of stardom in a sustainable way. Like, maybe 5 very good players away.
5 might be hyperbolic, a little. But you guys know what i mean.
(11-07-2020, 09:37 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (11-07-2020, 09:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I realize it was a 3 team deal. But the Mavs were paying a 2nd round pick and cap space for him if that rumor was true. that's a trade into just cap space.
Even if cap space, it was to the benefit of NY, not Lakers. Lakers had to move him to get Morris.
(11-07-2020, 09:13 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]But this whole argument comes down to you thinking Delon is absolutely worthless and terrible here. And I think that is way off base. But to each their own.
I admit I really don't like him, but seems Carlisle shares my feelings I am really kicking my head how his stats can be so good, because eye test was awful. He couldn't play with Luka and he couldn't run the bench unit efficiently. He was getting worse as season progressed. He didn't run offense a lot, but when he did, he reminded me so much of DSJ. Endless and pointless ball pounding without clear idea what to do. Aimless drives leading to lost balls from bad passes, gazillion passed opportunity to shoot the ball, endless pounding of the ball and pass to guarded someone like Kleber with 2 seconds on the clock leading to a desperation shot. He was mostly also nothing special on defense, apart from a couple of games he showed what he could be. If we take a neutral source as valuation of both guys (The Athletic ranking) - Green is in top 125, Wright is not. I think Green is doing stuff not shown in the stats. He was constantly guarding best opposing player and was good at it. His shooting percentage was below career average but teams are not really leaving him wide open - he is spreading the floor. Wright had higher percentage on the paper but teams didn't really care about that.
Right. they were willing to part with him. They could have chose KCP and another guy instead for the salary matching. They chose him. And the Knicks said we don't want him. That shows his value.
Carlisle played him 21 minutes a game last year. So he clearly liked him to be a major part of his rotation before Burke went off. Burke and Luka played fantastic together. Burke played great with everyone. That doesn't mean Wright played bad. Burke just played better. And btw Burke played really well here before too. But turns out playing with Luka can make you look like a really good nba player haha.
And Wright definitely struggled to find his fit in the scheme. that doesn't mean he played bad. he played well from an individual standpoint. But yeah he's a bad fit here and that's why he'll be gone. His defense was very solid IMO.
Wright actually had better offensive and defensive BPM if you are a fan of that. Tho Green's #s were better in RPM. Green definitely is the better floor spacer which is why he would be better here. But you are comparing roles to our system. Delon is more in the role of a Rondo type player who played very well in LA. It's not a spread it out system.
(11-07-2020, 09:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Luka isn’t going to win the MVP this season, btw.
Whatever, he said in his follow up to his "sophomore" season he would win it.
(11-07-2020, 09:47 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Right. The fact that he’s in the conversation is INSANE and amazing. We’re the luckiest fans in the world.
But the TEAM is far, far from being good enough to support that level of stardom in a sustainable way. Like, maybe 5 very good players away.
5 might be hyperbolic, a little. But you guys know what i mean.
I don't think it's impossible due to everyone going to struggle to improve this offseason. No cap space and almost all the major teams have their picks exhausted around their cores. It's still wide open.
The biggest obstacle is getting that consistent 3rd scorer. There are a lot of options that have been discussed.
I'd say the next most important get is getting a 2 way wing.
And lastly improve the bench bigs and scoring.
I think the last one is the easiest and might already be done. Brunson could take a step forward this year or Burke might be the answer. If Powell is recovered, he'll fix the bench. WCS maybe buying in also is a fix. Big ifs but that's not impossible. And it's also not unheard of for the Mavs to find a scrap heap big and turn him into a great backup.
The first 2 are definitely the hardest. Maybe that's Jrue or Dipo. Or maybe you go get Buddy and then manage to add a defensive wing somehow. I can think on it and give you my de facto offseason moves to contention manifesto if you like ha. But it's always one of those plans that never happen. Mavs may make similar moves that achieve the same result even.
Or they try to knock a part of those moves and come back next summer to finish but Luka and KP are just so dang good that we go ahead and take that step into contention anyways. I think you seriously discount the possiblity of this happening.
It would be dreamy if Fournier could play defense....
-4.4
-5.8
-3.0
The last three years of his on/off defense. Just have a hard time getting excited by that.
(11-08-2020, 12:14 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]It would be dreamy if Fournier could play defense....
-4.4
-5.8
-3.0
The last three years of his on/off defense. Just have a hard time getting excited by that.
so one thing I thought of about an hour ago:
let’s say this dude’s guy is close on all of this...HE is the one who first connected Hayward to Dallas for us. Now, he likes Hayward to Atlanta, and he’s an Atlanta guy. My reaction to this was to assume Hayward’s contractual demands were too high to keep the Mavs interested, but...
what if this is what it looks like when Hayward’s agent drums up an offer from a cap space team (ATL) in order to get Ainge to sign and trade him to his real preferred destination (DAL)? If that were the case, I wonder if ATL would be fully aware, hoping for the best, or if it might look to Atlanta like they were actually on the verge of signing the guy? This might be wishful thinking, but I suppose it’s possible that they’re being used, and that his guy might not see it.
Then again, maybe we should all start making our peace with Evan Fournier, some MLE scrub and lucky #18.
I hate basketball.
(11-08-2020, 12:24 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]what if this is what it looks like when Hayward’s agent drums up an offer from a cap space team (ATL) in order to get Ainge to sign and trade him to his real preferred destination (DAL)? If that were the case, I wonder if ATL would be fully aware, hoping for the best, or if it might look to Atlanta like they were actually on the verge of signing the guy? This might be wishful thinking, but I suppose it’s possible that they’re being used, and that his guy might not see it.
Very interesting thought exercise.
You would have to think that Hayward might have an eye on fit and winning above anything else. Hard to see him choosing ATL over DAL unless he really just wants the largest contract possible.
I do think you are right, that ATL might be getting used here, the exact same way the Mavs have been used in the past when they had big cap space. I wouldn't bet on it, but I don't think you are out to pasture.
If my choice is between dreaming about that and dreaming about the sweet three-year deal they could give Evan Fournier, I’ll go with the former as long as possible.
This is a random and stupid question that I’m sure has already been asked and answered, but what the hell:
In a situation where a player is going to opt out but the trade moratorium is lifted before the decision deadline, is it legal to trade that player before the option as a way of instantly reducing the new team’s payroll?
(11-08-2020, 12:59 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]This is a random and stupid question that I’m sure has already been asked and answered, but what the hell:
In a situation where a player is going to opt out but the trade moratorium is lifted before the decision deadline, is it legal to trade that player before the option as a way of instantly reducing the new team’s payroll?
© A Team cannot trade any player after the NBA trade deadline occurring in the last Season of the player’s Contract, or after the NBA trade deadline occurring in any Season that could be the last Season of the player’s Contract based upon the exercise or non-exercise of an Option or Early Termination Option.
-> No.
I would rather S&T a 4/80 for OPJ than Hayward. I think he is easier to obtain, and worth the price more so than Hayward/dealing with Ainge. He is the type of 3-D wing player Dallas needs, and I don’t mind paying him now and needing to move him or more pieces later to free up from for GA or another “star”
(11-08-2020, 01:35 AM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]I would rather S&T a 4/80 for OPJ than Hayward. I think he is easier to obtain, and worth the price more so than Hayward/dealing with Ainge. He is the type of 3-D wing player Dallas needs, and I don’t mind paying him now and needing to move him or more pieces later to free up from for GA or another “star”
If we don't talk about health (and OPJ has somehow managed to be worse here too), one of them is a roleplayer and the other one is a all around playmaķing semi-star.
This OPJ- Love got out of hand a long time ago. It's even worse than RoCo (and I say this fully aware of overvalueing our own players).
I agree with the Ainge problem.
(11-08-2020, 02:02 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]If we don't talk about health (and OPJ has somehow managed to be worse here too), one of them is a roleplayer and the other one is a all around playmaķing semi-star.
This OPJ- Love got out of hand a long time ago. It's even worse than RoCo (and I say this fully aware of overvalueing our own players).
I agree with the Ainge problem.
That brings up a good question that I’m not sure if I’ve seen asked here. We know that we have two main needs, a secondary play maker and a 3-D wing. Is there a player out there that is a combo of those two needs?
I will readily admit that I over value OPJ, but I think his defense and 3 point shooting from the wing would be welcome in clutch situations and allow DFS to be somewhat of a 6th man (or THJ, but we all know how poorly that worked at the beginning of last season).
Hayward and OPJ both have their fair share of injuries, but OPJ has age on his side. I’ve been in the OPJ train for a while, I suppose I could talk myself on the Hayward one too, but it depends on the comparing the cost for each one (which we would have no way of knowing)
(11-08-2020, 02:02 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ] (11-08-2020, 01:35 AM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]I would rather S&T a 4/80 for OPJ than Hayward. I think he is easier to obtain, and worth the price more so than Hayward/dealing with Ainge. He is the type of 3-D wing player Dallas needs, and I don’t mind paying him now and needing to move him or more pieces later to free up from for GA or another “star”
If we don't talk about health (and OPJ has somehow managed to be worse here too), one of them is a roleplayer and the other one is a all around playmaķing semi-star.
This OPJ- Love got out of hand a long time ago. It's even worse than RoCo (and I say this fully aware of overvalueing our own players).
I agree with the Ainge problem.
Setting aside the differing assessments of the players for a second, there’s also the fact that they’re both under contract for another year if they opt in. While we’ve heard rumors from multiple sources that Hayward wants to opt out and sign as a free agent as part of weaker class more likely to feature him at the very top, we’ve heard nothing to this point about OPJ’s intentions. He might view next summer’s abundance of cap room as the better path for him. If he does opt out, we don’t know if he’d be interested in signing here.
So, it’s not a clear case of the Mavs choosing one over the other, tbh.
But if it were that choice, I’d agree with Mapka, and more to the point I think we have good reason to believe the Mavs would, too.
(11-08-2020, 02:17 AM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]That brings up a good question that I’m not sure if I’ve seen asked here. We know that we have two main needs, a secondary play maker and a 3-D wing. Is there a player out there that is a combo of those two needs?
Well, he’s a guard, not a wing, but Jrue Holiday is almost exactly the player you’re describing. If he was 26-28 instead of 30, he’d be one of the 3-5 best fits next to Luka in the NBA, I think.
(11-08-2020, 02:17 AM)SamStetz Wrote: [ -> ]That brings up a good question that I’m not sure if I’ve seen asked here. We know that we have two main needs, a secondary play maker and a 3-D wing. Is there a player out there that is a combo of those two needs?
The combo of this traits make a semi-star.
Holiday is more the 3&D side, Hayward more the playmaking.
Joe Ingles would be the glue guy version.
Crowder is streaky with the 3 and his "secondary playmaking" is just keeping up the flow.