(10-20-2020, 09:56 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Dipo for Wright, Jackson, Boban, 18 and 31. I do believe that if we are sending them trash (ie Wright, Jackson) then they are going to need both 18, 31
So here is my deal:
1) Wright is "trash" to DAL fans because of the apparent poor fit. But he shot an almost career high of 37% on threes this year with a 15.4 PER and still is a disruptive off ball defender. Wright is owed two more years ($9M and $8.5M). I am convinced he is STILL a positive trade asset in the NBA and not trash. I guarantee there a number of teams that would welcome him on their roster where he might be a great fit.
2) Justin is "trash" to DAL fans because like Wright he has a poor fit here and hasn't been able to put it altogether. Anyone with eyes can see he still has talent (his floater game is great, he just has to figure out his three ball and his confidence which deteriorated in DAL). He is an expiring $5M contract and almost certainly some team would be willing to take a free flyer on him. I think Justin's contract is still a small asset as an expiring and I definitely think it is NOT a "negative" asset (you would not have to "pay" another asset to trade him).
My point? In this proposed trade the Mavs give up FIVE assets (some worth more than others) to get ONE asset.
a) This ONE asset in Dipo could turn out awesome and make this a homerun trade of consolidating assets.
b) BUT if Dipo 1) is never the same because of injury or 2) bails in the off season, THEN you have lost five assets for nothing but powder.
My contention is that scenario a) has like a 2-5% chance of happening, while scenario b) has like a 95-98% chance of happening. Going after Dipo is RISKY because you could burn a ton of assets and be left with all the Mavs had in the last decade....powder and no assets to improve the team around its core.
Why does anyone want to risk being there again?
The Mavs need to be acquiring ASSETS or making less risky moves to try and make the next step. Dipo is just too risky from my seat because you could be left with basically nothing while burning a bunch of assets.
Since THJ's opt in date isn't until after the draft, is it even POSSIBLE to package him with #18? Moving #18 would have to be a draft night trade, correct? I don't think it's a fit as a package.
You can say, I guess, that the Mavs could simply draft a player and then package that player with THJ after he opts in, but to me, the chance to pick who you want at #18 (even though the NBA is stupid, and he'd have to take a picture in a Mavs hat) is the attractive thing here. Once the Mavs drive off the lot with the new car, I don't think it's worth as much weeks later.
(10-20-2020, 10:05 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I actually think there's a world in which they view Powell as a desirable addition, even.
I can see Powell being their springboard to getting a deal for Turner made. At that point, they don't need to replace his position and can take best trade available.
I thought the opt-in date was before the draft, can anybody confirm?
Also the underrating of Dipo on these boards is borderline criminal. He is a very good player and former all-star.
Kamm you act like we haven't seen Oladipo. We watched him play. Ya he was rusty, so was KP when he came back. But he looked fine, I don't know why you are acting like he's not going to be the same player.
(10-20-2020, 10:22 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]He WAS a very good player for one year and former all-star.
FIFY.
2017-18 Dipo was AWESOME. A player anyone would want. But....
1) He didn't do close to that again in 2018-19 while healthy.
2) He then had a DEVASTATING injury which might slow down his athleticism quite a bit (people assume DP is a lost cause, but very few are realizing that the quad tendon that Dipo blew is almost as bad).
3) He has come back from that injury and in two different stints (Feb-Mar 2020 & Aug 2020) has shot BELOW 40%, including in the playoffs with a playoff PER of 12.8 while not having a positive on-court effect.
It is NOT that people are saying he was never good. It is that people are saying
"this isn't 2017-18 Dipo we are talking about."
Okay Kamm but did he look limited to you in the playoffs? I thought he looked fine. He was missing shots but again that's rust more than anything. His stock is lower but this is a guy that in my view would immediately be the 2nd or 3rd best player on this team.
Listening to the Lowe pod, AG's value around the league has fallen. Should we go for him (even though in the pod Simmons and Lowe are certain we are one of the Giannis destinations with Toronto/Miami and Milwalkee) ?
Is a Wright/Jackson/18 package realistic ?
If VO could average his career numbers here (I think that is highly doable) he is a fairly large upgrade to THJ, IMO. He's not an all star with those numbers, but he is pretty dang good, while being the player we need next to Luka.
His peak was 1st team All-Defensive and 3rd team All-NBA. There is a crap-ton of room between that peak and being as good as THJ.
The injury is scarier than OPJ's for sure, but if he plays at 80% of that peak (roughly his career numbers), it's still better than THJ, IMO.
(10-20-2020, 10:34 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Lowe pod, AG's value around the league has fallen. Should we go for him (even though in the pod Simmons and Lowe are certain we are one of the Giannis destinations with Toronto/Miami and Milwalkee) ?
Is a Wright/Jackson/18 package realistic ?
Man I would be ecstatic ab an AG trade. I think he's worth more than just 18 and also Mavs love cap space more than they love good players.
Talking about the Magic. How is Isaacs injury impacting his trade value?
(10-20-2020, 10:43 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2020, 10:34 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Lowe pod, AG's value around the league has fallen. Should we go for him (even though in the pod Simmons and Lowe are certain we are one of the Giannis destinations with Toronto/Miami and Milwalkee) ?
Is a Wright/Jackson/18 package realistic ?
Man I would be ecstatic ab an AG trade. I think he's worth more than just 18 and also Mavs love cap space more than they love good players.
The point made in the podcast wasn't so much "AG's price is getting cheaper" as it was "most teams who used to like AG seem to have decided he's not very good." There's a difference.
(10-20-2020, 10:10 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So here is my deal:
1) Wright is "trash" to DAL fans because of the apparent poor fit. But he shot an almost career high of 37% on threes this year with a 15.4 PER and still is a disruptive off ball defender. Wright is owed two more years ($9M and $8.5M). I am convinced he is STILL a positive trade asset in the NBA and not trash. I guarantee there a number of teams that would welcome him on their roster where he might be a great fit.
2) Justin is "trash" to DAL fans because like Wright he has a poor fit here and hasn't been able to put it altogether. Anyone with eyes can see he still has talent (his floater game is great, he just has to figure out his three ball and his confidence which deteriorated in DAL). He is an expiring $5M contract and almost certainly some team would be willing to take a free flyer on him. I think Justin's contract is still a small asset as an expiring and I definitely think it is NOT a "negative" asset (you would not have to "pay" another asset to trade him).
The discussions here are getting beyond silly. So not only the good guys on our teams have near all star value, also the trash that was totally unplayable in the playoff are just waiting to become all stars on another team. Wake up. Wright is overpaid backup PG and Jackson is on his way to China. Sacramento didn't believe in him and he proved why in Dallas.
(10-20-2020, 11:51 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]The discussions here are getting beyond silly. So not only the good guys on our teams have near all star value, also the trash that was totally unplayable in the playoff are just waiting to become all stars on another team.
This is garbage trolling and disrespectful to people trying to have constructive discussion about ambiguous topics.
Do better. Help make the board a better place not a worse place.
(10-20-2020, 11:00 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Talking about the Magic. How is Isaacs injury impacting his trade value?
I would assume they would not sell low on him. They are going to bite the bullet and rehab him.
I think the only chance they don't do that is the natives getting restless and impatient and pushing management to "do something."
(10-20-2020, 11:05 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The point made in the podcast wasn't so much "AG's price is getting cheaper" as it was "most teams who used to like AG seem to have decided he's not very good." There's a difference.
If it is a "buy low" situation with AG, I would still love to see if RC can rehab him. He has the "potential" but that is a dangerous word, because it means he hasn't really done anything of substance.
(10-20-2020, 12:45 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]This is garbage trolling and disrespectful to people trying to have constructive discussion about ambiguous topics.
I am sorry, but same can be said about your evaluations of the players. They are just not constructive. You so like to pick out a single positive stat and try to make a player look good while neglecting all other stuff. Or the other way around when you try to argue why a player is bad. Like Wright case - you brought out the 37 % 3 shot making a point how positive player he is. Ignoring he is a career 34 % shooter and how he outright rejected to shoot anything that wasn't completely open and then some. So in case of Oladipo you focus on one bad season, in case of Wright you focus on one good stat.
Jackson had an absolute trash of a season after being mostly a dissapointment in his first three seasons. No one will pay anything to give him a try.
https://www.hoopsrumors.com/2020/10/cent...stons.html
Quote:“From talking to people around the league, I don’t think [Oladipo's] value is nearly as high as his name brand would suggest at the moment,” Bontemps said (hat tip to RealGM). “And I think it’s more likely that the Pacers go into the season and either hope he plays really well and they do great and he decides to stay, or that he plays better and then they maybe trade him later, when his value goes up some.”
(10-20-2020, 01:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I am sorry, but same can be said about your evaluations of the players. They are just not constructive. You so like to pick out a single positive stat and try to make a player look good while neglecting all other stuff. Or the other way around when you try to argue why a player is bad. Like Wright case - you brought out the 37 % 3 shot making a point how positive player he is. Ignoring he is a career 34 % shooter and how he outright rejected to shoot anything that wasn't completely open and then some. So in case of Oladipo you focus on one bad season, in case of Wright you focus on one good stat.
Jackson had an absolute trash of a season after being mostly a dissapointment in his first three seasons. No one will pay anything to give him a try.
This is fundamentally false and more trolling.
1) I brought out TWO stats with Wright (his almost career 3P% and his PER). I did NOT neglect the other parts. I acknowledged that Wright has been a BAD fit in DAL. However, one year of a bad fit (though putting up some still SOLID numbers) does not mean he is "trash" and a "negative asset."
2) I have NOT focused on "one bad season" of Dipo. I have constantly talked about him only having one great season and then 5 other decent to average seasons and THEN I have talked about his post-injury data (which is his reality moving forward...he willl always be post-injury moving forward).
3) I never said Wright or Jackson would be "all stars" (like your lying troll). I said Jackson has small value as a $5M expiring (this is truth, even permanently injured players still have small value as expirings). I said Wright is still 28 and offers enough on a reasonable contract that someone would be interested in him. I never said they were BIG assets, just that they are not "trash" to be thrown away while wasting some of the Mavs best draft assets.
Stop trolling. Read what others write and treat them with respect and fairness to what they ACTUALLY say.
(10-20-2020, 11:51 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ] (10-20-2020, 10:10 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So here is my deal:
1) Wright is "trash" to DAL fans because of the apparent poor fit. But he shot an almost career high of 37% on threes this year with a 15.4 PER and still is a disruptive off ball defender. Wright is owed two more years ($9M and $8.5M). I am convinced he is STILL a positive trade asset in the NBA and not trash. I guarantee there a number of teams that would welcome him on their roster where he might be a great fit.
2) Justin is "trash" to DAL fans because like Wright he has a poor fit here and hasn't been able to put it altogether. Anyone with eyes can see he still has talent (his floater game is great, he just has to figure out his three ball and his confidence which deteriorated in DAL). He is an expiring $5M contract and almost certainly some team would be willing to take a free flyer on him. I think Justin's contract is still a small asset as an expiring and I definitely think it is NOT a "negative" asset (you would not have to "pay" another asset to trade him).
The discussions here are getting beyond silly. So not only the good guys on our teams have near all star value, also the trash that was totally unplayable in the playoff are just waiting to become all stars on another team. Wake up. Wright is overpaid backup PG and Jackson is on his way to China. Sacramento didn't believe in him and he proved why in Dallas.
Your over dramatization is what is making the discussion silly. Stop putting words in people's mouths just because they have a differing viewpoint from you.
(10-20-2020, 01:02 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think [Oladipo's] value is nearly as high as his name brand would suggest at the moment
Of course it is not, that's why proposals like Wright+Jackson+#18 are being thrown around. That's why I would gamble on him and that's why it makes sense for Indy to wait half a season before trading him. It can't really go lower than that.
(10-20-2020, 01:02 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I never said they were BIG assets, just that they are not "trash" to be thrown away while wasting some of the Mavs best draft assets
Please tell me one example when I said Wright should be just thrown away. Absolutely never have I said that. But upgrading Wright for Schroeder/Dipo/Richardson and similar is a big upgrade ovwer what Wright is and absolutely worth a #18 pick. Absolutely every trade I am proposing is about making Mavs better and none about dumping players. So who is putting words in other people mouths?
(10-20-2020, 01:02 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I brought out TWO stats with Wright (his almost career 3P% and his PER). I did NOT neglect the other parts. I acknowledged that Wright has been a BAD fit in DAL. However, one year of a bad fit (though putting up some still SOLID numbers) does not mean he is "trash" and a "negative asset."
According to his salary Wright is an overpaid back up PG. His only really good sequence were those couple of games in Memphis. Otherwise he was average at best. Difference was, he was still young in Toronto and a hope he can be something more. Sequence in Dallas proved otherwise. Sorry for using harsh word trash, but I felt I need to balance your word of calling him an asset, which he certainly isn't. I stand by saying he is an negative asset. Absolute best case for trading him without asset attached is for someone like Snell, imho. But you are free to name those teams that would be interested in him and his salary and what they would be willing to send back.
(10-20-2020, 01:02 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I never said Wright or Jackson would be "all stars" (like your lying troll).
I am sorry you take a little sarcasm so personally.
Just to illustrate why I get so angry by some evaluations. Post injury Oladipo is listed as top60 player by The Athletic (pre injury top 30). THJ, Curry and Maxi are top 125, for example. Wright, Jackson or Bobi are no where near top125 players. So saying trading them+#18+#31 is not an upgrade, makes me angry, because it is unrealistic. He would make Mavs much better for a small price in this kind of trade.
I agree with the other part of the scale. If I am Indy, I rather take half a year chance on Oladipo before trading him. Or perhaps pieces will fall together with the new coach and Indy goes where some see them based on the (theoretic) value they have on the team. Surely they have nice pieces on all positions, just lack star power.
(10-20-2020, 10:34 AM)aguiar95 Wrote: [ -> ]Listening to the Lowe pod, AG's value around the league has fallen. Should we go for him (even though in the pod Simmons and Lowe are certain we are one of the Giannis destinations with Toronto/Miami and Milwalkee) ?
Is a Wright/Jackson/18 package realistic ?
All I heard was another solid 10 minutes of national media talking about Giannis to the Mavs.
I´d try so hard to get rid of Powell+Wright right now for expiring contracts. We are the #1 FA destination.
This is not "Please Comicbook Dwight talk to us"-desperation. This is the " We are in a pandemic, All-Stars go in this line, roleplayers here, ring chasing veterans over there, and here is the VIP entrance for superstars"-party.