MavsBoard - DAL OFFSEASON: Trade & FA | Mavs "mostly done...but you never know."

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https://twitter.com/CallieCaplan/status/...4143696897

Fish has an article up about the Harrell to Mavs rumor. In my opinion, it reads like "clickbait Fish" and doesn't seem like something real he actually got from the Mavs, but I'm still a little scared.

I do not want Harrell.

(09-24-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Fish has an article up about the Harrell to Mavs rumor. In my opinion, it reads like "clickbait Fish" and doesn't seem like something real he actually got from the Mavs, but I'm still a little scared.

I do not want Harrell.

Ya I don't get the point. He is redundant with Powell. It's not like he's some great defensive player. I don't see that making sense at all.

(09-24-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Harrell.

(09-24-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The Philadelphia 76ers' interest in Mike D'Antoni may not be limited to just his coaching acumen.

John Clark of NBC Sports Philadelphia reported the Sixers believe hiring D'Antoni could help lure James Harden to the franchise. Harden can become a free agent after the 2021-22 season.

Feels to me like being too concerned about the "enforcer" role.

Edit: quoted the wrong post, meant to answer re: the Harrell rumor.

(09-24-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I do not want Harrell.

I will not give Fish a click as I hate his click bait "articles". Usually is just a bunch of guesses what it would look like if he would come and what we could do to sign him. Basically stuff at lower quality than we do here on the forum.

Harrell was extremely bad in the playoffs but there were some justifiable circumstances with his absence from most of the bubble and consequently obviously bad physical preparation, which is a killer for high energy guy like him.

I could see a better version of Powell in him in the regular season. If his price would drop to MLE level (which is max we could offer), he could be considered as an asset. His extremely high energy play can lift others. But I agree, he is not what we need, as long as we have Powell on the roster. I doubt Mavs would spend money on him.

I mean, I would argue that Powell is a WAY better player than Harrell. At least, than the version we saw in the bubble.

How many times did we see him end up with the ball just past the free throw line, only to see that the Dallas big had backed off to the point where he was literally standing under the basket? Did he ever even attempt to shoot in that situation? I don't remember it, if he did, but I do remember about 7 occasions when he dribbled right at the Mavs' big and forced up some short range attempt that missed wildly.

It's like they were trying to use him the way Miami uses Bam, only Bam can shoot! In some cases, Bam can even get around someone who's worried about his shooting. When the ball finds a passer you don't have to guard, you've essentially willingly put yourself in a situation where you're playing 4 on 5. The goal is to create 4 on 3 situations, so that's the wrong direction.

If Harrell had some positive effect on the series defensively, I didn't see it. Maybe @"Kammrath"'s computer did, but I came away from the series thinking Harrell was one of the main reasons Dallas was able to be as competitive as they were.

(09-24-2020, 01:46 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2020, 12:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]To summarize. Wright+Jackson+#18 (throw in a future second rounder or two if needed) can have a competition, but it is not unrealistic to make it happen.

(09-24-2020, 12:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Never say never.

So Wright+18 for Richardson (if he gets moved to another team) is "a fantasy" while same crap for a much better player is "never say never"?
All the biggest trades these days are wild trades involving 3-4 teams. GS is interesting because they 1) have the 2nd pick and are in win now mode 2) want to trade wiggins 3) have the biggest trade exception out there at over 17 million...........we already know Philly and OKC are making moves, i could see us getting involved in something like this:

Philly: CP3

Dallas: Richardson

GS: Horford, Schroeder, 18, OKC’s Denver 1st, Philly 1st

OKC: #2 pick, Philly future 1st, Wiggins, Scott, Wright

It would need to be 2 separate trades but something like that would make all these teams better

Not sure why we can't put this to bed but ya Schroder for 18 is a lot more realistic than Richardson. I will concede that Schroder had a great year so someone could really make a great offer, just remember that everyone knows OKC is in sell-off mode so that lowers their returns.

Richardson is just too good a player to get for 18. He is a very good starting SG. Schroder has been pigeon-holed as a 6th man the last couple years in OKC. I just see Richardson's value as much higher than 18, especially for a team that needs to get better. The Sixers don't need to trade him at all if they aren't getting better and I can't imagine them giving up Richardson to get CP3. That would be the wrong move to make. They are much more likely to move Horford & Harris before they move Richardson.

(09-24-2020, 03:26 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]The Philadelphia 76ers' interest in Mike D'Antoni may not be limited to just his coaching acumen.

John Clark of NBC Sports Philadelphia reported the Sixers believe hiring D'Antoni could help lure James Harden to the franchise. Harden can become a free agent after the 2021-22 season.

Feels to me like being too concerned about the "enforcer" role.

I'm not crazy, right? I feel like if he would have gotten this from the Mavs he wouldn't have called it an "NBA rumor" or given any credit to Shams. Fish likes to take credit when he thinks he has something.

(09-24-2020, 03:36 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2020, 01:46 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2020, 12:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]To summarize. Wright+Jackson+#18 (throw in a future second rounder or two if needed) can have a competition, but it is not unrealistic to make it happen.

(09-24-2020, 12:47 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Never say never.

So Wright+18 for Richardson (if he gets moved to another team) is "a fantasy" while same crap for a much better player is "never say never"?
All the biggest trades these days are wild trades involving 3-4 teams. GS is interesting because they 1) have the 2nd pick and are in win now mode 2) want to trade wiggins 3) have the biggest trade exception out there at over 17 million...........we already know Philly and OKC are making moves, i could see us getting involved in something like this:

Philly: CP3

Dallas: Richardson

GS: Horford, Schroeder, 18, OKC’s Denver 1st, Philly 1st

OKC: #2 pick, Philly future 1st, Wiggins, Scott, Wright

It would need to be 2 separate trades but something like that would make all these teams better

Not sure why we can't put this to bed but ya Schroder for 18 is a lot more realistic than Richardson. I will concede that Schroder had a great year so someone could really make a great offer, just remember that everyone knows OKC is in sell-off mode so that lowers their returns.

Richardson is just too good a player to get for 18. He is a very good starting SG. Schroder has been pigeon-holed as a 6th man the last couple years in OKC. I just see Richardson's value as much higher than 18, especially for a team that needs to get better. The Sixers don't need to trade him at all if they aren't getting better and I can't imagine them giving up Richardson to get CP3. That would be the wrong move to make. They are much more likely to move Horford & Harris before they move Richardson.

Let’s see how it plays out. The sixers are going after D’Antoni and CP3. They almost have to include Richardson. Harris is the guy they gave up significant assets for and I think Horford is who they move

(09-24-2020, 03:36 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure why we can't put this to bed but ya Schroder for 18 is a lot more realistic than Richardson. I will concede that Schroder had a great year so someone could really make a great offer, just remember that everyone knows OKC is in sell-off mode so that lowers their returns.

Richardson is just too good a player to get for 18. He is a very good starting SG. Schroder has been pigeon-holed as a 6th man the last couple years in OKC. I just see Richardson's value as much higher than 18, especially for a team that needs to get better. The Sixers don't need to trade him at all if they aren't getting better and I can't imagine them giving up Richardson to get CP3. That would be the wrong move to make. They are much more likely to move Horford & Harris before they move Richardson.

I could be wrong, but I think 18 for Schroeder (regardless of the salary matching ballast) would be accepted by Presti with enthusiasm, provided there was a player on the board he liked. I'd guess they might even accept something less than that, but if the Mavs like him, I don't think it would be a ripoff.

You really like Richardson, and you might be right, but he also might not be as well thought of as you think. There's no way for us to know. Either way, I totally agree that they have bigger Fish to fry as far as making their roster over. I don't think they're considering whether or not to move Horford & Harris, I think they're having group prayers over Zoom during which they pray they'll miraculously be ABLE to move them. Honestly, if I'm that GM, I'm shopping Embiid and just building around Simmons. Embiid has all the talent in the world, and should be the best player in the league, but no work ethic. Since they only changed coaches and not GM's, I suppose that's not the plan.

Since you brought up Tobias Harris, I think he's a good example of why I'm not on team "DO SOMETHING." The following statements are all undeniably true:

He is a veteran who could help you in a leadership role.
He has one of the body types and skill sets the Mavs are lacking, as currently constructed.
He is an established "starter" and would fit pretty nicely in the Mavs' lineup (right were Kleber started in the playoffs)
He IS 100% available, and the Mavs could way get him with the assets available.
He would improve the team.

Now, would anyone be excited about that? There's a "starter" for you. Are you contending now? Personally, I think part of me would die if that's the move. Call me crazy, but I think I'd prefer to strike out on Giannis over that. If their goal is to "do something" then I think they might be on a one-way collision course with Harris or someone just like him.

(09-24-2020, 03:50 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s see how it plays out. The sixers are going after D’Antoni and CP3. They almost have to include Richardson. Harris is the guy they gave up significant assets for and I think Horford is who they move

LOLOLOL if the Sixers traded Richardson and Horford for CP3, they'd have to include so many future drafts picks that they'd never be able to do the "process" again.

(09-24-2020, 03:50 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s see how it plays out. The sixers are going after D’Antoni and CP3. They almost have to include Richardson. Harris is the guy they gave up significant assets for and I think Horford is who they move

I haven't heard anything about Chris Paul in Philly. It's an interesting thought, but I'm not sure I buy it.

It would be a way to get some of that bad long term money off the books, so it makes sense that way. But honestly, a move like that would also signal that they are ready to give up on Simmons, whose value is more tied to having the ball than anyone else I can think of.

You take the ball out of that dude's hands and you basically have Dwight Powell.

Not sure I buy it. I think Simmons is likely the perfumed inner thigh that's attracting D'Anotoni to the gig in the first place.

(09-24-2020, 03:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, I would argue that Powell is a WAY better player than Harrell. At least, than the version we saw in the bubble.

Well, I just said he was bad in the bubble - worse than regular season and there are objective reasons for that. Very likely bubble performance is not what he really is. Other than a fact that he is a non shooting big that is not really a difference maker on defense Smile

(09-24-2020, 03:26 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2020, 03:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Harrell.

To be clear, I DO think CP3/Embiid is a good fit, and would immediately be better. I just can't see them giving up on Simmons already.

(09-24-2020, 03:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Since you brought up Tobias Harris, I think he's a good example of why I'm not on team "DO SOMETHING."

We severely underestimate the ability to move overpaid, talented players. Harris is a guy everyone shits on but I think you could trade him in heartbeat bc he's a good player and there simply aren't enough of them. We already take for granted that CP3 will be traded and fetch a return this summer. That's simply amazing. This was the absolute worst contract in the NBA last offseason, everyone agreed. Now the Sixers, Knicks & Bucks are all vying for his services. Meanwhile Presti is laughing hysterically as he keeps turning contract dumps into gems.

Just think of all the rosters that are a total mess. At worst you could move Harris for nothing if you were really just wanting to unload his money but the Sixers need to get better. I am not sure they will be able to upgrade him. Horford is a guy I am 90% sure that will get moved. Doesn't matter that he's overpaid. I expect the Sixers to make at least 1 or 2 good moves and that doesn't include trading Richardson away for a rookie that isn't going to help them win a championship or a lateral move like Kennard or anything like that.

(09-24-2020, 04:00 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]
(09-24-2020, 03:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, I would argue that Powell is a WAY better player than Harrell. At least, than the version we saw in the bubble.

Well, I just said he was bad in the bubble - worse than regular season and there are objective reasons for that. Very likely bubble performance is not what he really is. Other than a fact that he is a non shooting big that is not really a difference maker on defense

Yeah, I'm not trying to argue with you at all. I didn't watch him enough during the season to have any idea why he was 6th man of the year, and clearly, something was missing for him in the bubble. I just can't imagine, based on what I watched in the bubble, what that missing element to his game could possibly be. I was dumbfounded.

(09-24-2020, 03:36 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure why we can't put this to bed

Because you don't really produce any new arguments for your claim other than Richardson is supposedly a betters player than Schroeder. Which, at least for 2019/20, numbers don't show. Other than that they are both expiring and a rebuilding team doesn't need them, because they are better off trading them for assets. So, if he by chance ends up on OKC, his position and value will be basically same as Schroeders. It is not really that difficult to get Smile

Instead of repeating endlessly how JRich is so much better player, perhaps come up with realistic proposals other teams might make and we will see if they are really that much better than what OKC could get for Schroeder.

(09-24-2020, 03:54 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]LOLOLOL if the Sixers traded Richardson and Horford for CP3

Why do you think so? Richardson is like one first round pick for OKC. So add Smith or another first rounder and the value is about right. It's not like CP3 contract is a deal of the century.

Of course it would be very hard to beat if New York would be willing to basically take CP3 in the salary cap for a couple of reclamation youngsters. Than Philly probably doesn't have a chance with their contracts. But if NY offer isn't there, than Philly offer is not that bad.

(09-24-2020, 04:02 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]We severely underestimate the ability to move overpaid, talented players. Harris is a guy everyone shits on but I think you could trade him in heartbeat bc he's a good player and there simply aren't enough of them. We already take for granted that CP3 will be traded and fetch a return this summer. That's simply amazing. This was the absolute worst contract in the NBA last offseason, everyone agreed. Now the Sixers, Knicks & Bucks are all vying for his services. Meanwhile Presti is laughing hysterically as he keeps turning contract dumps into gems.

Just think of all the rosters that are a total mess. At worst you could move Harris for nothing if you were really just wanting to unload his money but the Sixers need to get better. I am not sure they will be able to upgrade him. Horford is a guy I am 90% sure that will get moved. Doesn't matter that he's overpaid. I expect the Sixers to make at least 1 or 2 good moves and that doesn't include trading Richardson away for a rookie that isn't going to help them win a championship or a lateral move like Kennard or anything like that.

There's a lot here I don't agree with, detail wise, but I don't disagree with your overall point, and I'm definitely not trying to insert myself in any argument about a specific, hypothetical trade for Richardson.

I think trading big money is possible, but not easy. And, I don't think Chris Paul's contract was ever even close to the worst in the league, just one of the biggest. Off the top of my head, there's a guy in Washington whose super max extension pretty much just kicked in who hasn't played in so long that Wizards fans can't remember what he looks like.

I agree that Harris is a good player. I agree that some team might see him as a value and trade for him. But unfortunately, with that contract, KP's contract and Luka's extension on the horizon, acquiring him WOULD limit what they were able to do from there on, so it's just not a move I'd make unless I thought he was THE missing piece, which I don't.