Could see the Mavs send Brunson to Knicks for Kemba Walker and the first round pick they owe NY for Porzingis, then flip Powell and two first round picks to the Pacers for Myles Turner.
-Knicks get Brunson for Walker and a first.
-Pacers get Powell and two first round picks for Turner.
-Mavs get Walker and Turner for Brunson, Powell and two picks.
The deal works on Fanspo as-is but my math says Dallas would need to throw in Moses to make it work.
I hate to deal Brunson but you can't win a title without an All NBA caliber defender and this deal lands one in Dallas. Like it or not, THJ is paid to start, so getting him back in the opening lineup makes sense financially and it might help him get going. He can be better on both ends and we saw last season that he can fit next to Luka. Walker gives you a former All NBA talent himself, who's being paid like a backup and can replace Brunson's 14-16 pts. Might open up some minutes for Green.
(01-17-2022, 10:17 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Could see the Mavs send Brunson to Knicks for Kemba Walker and the first round pick they owe NY for Porzingis, then flip Powell and two first round picks to the Pacers for Myles Turner.
-Knicks get Brunson for Walker and a first.
-Pacers get Powell and two first round picks for Turner.
-Mavs get Walker and Turner for Brunson, Powell and two picks.
The deal works on Fanspo. I hate to deal Brunson but you can't win a title without an All NBA caliber defender and this deal lands one in Dallas. Like it or not, THJ is paid to start, so getting him back in the opening lineup makes sense. He can be better on both ends and we saw last season that he can fit next to Luka. Walker gives you a former All NBA talent himself, who's being paid like a backup and can replace Brunson's 14-16 pts.
Kemba's knees are falling off and his level of play is plummeting. I think NY is already trying to get off that contract and would be more than happy sending him out in that trade. With the level Brunson is playing right now, I would want NY 2022 pick unprotected as well.
I'm not sold on the Turner/KP combo and I'm not sold on THJ going back to the starting lineup. With no secondary playmaker this is a move back to Luka ball, which does not seem to be where Kidd wants to go.
Kemba's knees are definitely a risk but you're not asking him to play 35 minutes a night like he did in New York through December. (By the way he averaged 19/6/5 over six games that included a triple double and a 44-pt outburst.) Walker would be a backup in Dallas and saved for the playoffs. Maybe you can also add Dragic if he's bought out.
I share your concern about a KP/Turner combo. It could be awesome though. There's a lot of upside to KP's health if you add a beefy center next to him and obviously, it was Kidd's original plan to KP at power forward. There are a lot of big centers in the west to contend with in the playoffs: Ayton, Gobert, Jocic and others.
This deal opens up some interesting possibilities if you don't believe in KP and Collins really wants out of Atlanta.
I also share your concern about iso-Luka-ball but Walker is no slouch if Dallas can keep him healthy. And if we're being honest, Luka is going to play 38 minutes and have the ball in his hands in the playoffs anyway. Turner isn't the dynamic secondary creator we're looking for but he does add the All NBA defensive presence this team lacks.
I would not trade Jalen in the package mentioned above. Man, I am torn on Turner. Never been a huge fan. Plus, I really don't know if KP and Turner can play huge minutes together. If you are putting your short term future in that pairing...you better be right. I don't believe KP has rebuilt his value yet either.
It will be interesting to see what they get from Turner. His play of late has stunk. Although I could see a few teams putting together a solid offer. I don't believe it will be two first round picks...unless OKC came sweeping in. I think Charlotte makes the most sense with PJ Washington and a first. Would they dangle Bouknight?
(01-16-2022, 03:44 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]This is a great point. Imagine before we were discussing Luka 1st, KP 2nd, and we should find that 3rd that fits. It seems times have changed. Now it's Luka 1st, Brunson 2nd, and we need to find that 3rd player that fits the Luka-Brunson tandem the best. Is that KP? That's the main question at the moment. Does KP fit, or does he not.
Personally, my big question is if KP is a #2 option for this team. That is the big decision that needs to be answered this year.
I never viewed Jalen as a #2 or a #3. I believe he is best suited as your #4 (15 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, low turnovers, high shooting percentage).
I think a #3 can be found with our assets we have, but determining what KP is needs to be the first question answered. I really don't want to go all in with our assets until we have the KP question answered.
Trading two young and advancing players, in the top form, for 31 and 33 old, possibly injured but definitely plummeting vets. like Kemba and Turner? Rehiring Cauley Stein would be a better idea...
(01-17-2022, 11:00 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I am torn on Turner. Never been a huge fan.
Big question is what kind of player does Turner think he is. He wants a bigger role offensively and I don't see that happening in Dallas. He doesn't seem to like the idea of setting screens and spacing the floor. He hasn't played with a PG like Luka but I'm not sure he's a tremendous lob threat. There's an art to rolling.
Honestly I'm fine with Dallas standing pat, but like others, I'm concerned about Brunson's ties to NYK.
(01-17-2022, 11:07 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Personally, my big question is if KP is a #2 option for this team. That is the big decision that needs to be answered this year.
I never viewed Jalen as a #2 or a #3. I believe he is best suited as your #4 (15 points, 5 assists, 4 rebounds, low turnovers, high shooting percentage).
I think a #3 can be found with our assets we have, but determining what KP is needs to be the first question answered. I really don't want to go all in with our assets until we have the KP question answered.
I feel the same way about both KP and Brunson. We have a little over three weeks to see just how well the Luka/KP/Brunson combo works together, both offensively and defensively. Hopefully we get a lot of minutes with those guys and two 3&D players (DFS/Maxi/Bullock) to see if this really works.
I have a premonition that we will trade Brunson to the Knicks..be the main floor general at MSG(where he seems to have strong ties) and they are building an exciting young team..Barrett/Reddish/Toppin/Robinson(Missing guard) and the insistent rumors of Zion...it seems too tempting... Surely we will have to wait for the off-season, for salary equalization...
but Randle for Brunson makes too much sense.. With the recent rumors that we're chasing Collins/Turner...it seems like a no-brainer that we're looking for a great to pair up with KP...and Randle fits that description perfectly (and honestly...I don't hate him)...
Dallas native He has expressed that he wanted to play for Mavs, although he is overwhelmed as 1 option in the Knicks,..I think as 2/3 he would fit perfectly in Mavs..very good rebounder/passer (for the position) and decent defender (can change) when motivated...
Something like..
Brunson(ST)/MBrown/Dallas22 for /Randle/Kemba or Burks/Dallas 23...
who says no...?
(The change of selections is only to be able to operate with all our picks)
Kleber/Turner/Powell
DFGM 4.4 / 6.7 / 4.9
DFGA 11.6 / 13.9 / 10.0
DFG% 38 % / 48.8% / 49.4
FG% 46 % / 49.2% / 49.2
DIFF% -8.0 % / -0.8 % / 0.2
If Turner is worth 2 FRP, so is Brunson. Brunson plays a more important position.
Mavs are just going to have to pay Brunson and DFS unless they get really good offers. I don't want to trade them for meh+.
I´m not a fan of the Turner/Porzingis combination. If we really went for Turner, I´d look for a John Collins/Porzingis three-way trade, too.
Doncic
Bullock
DFS
Collins
Turner
That I could see.
(01-17-2022, 12:04 AM)OBX Maverick Wrote: [ -> ]This is generally correct. However, as was alluded to above, Cuban was concerned about Nash’s back. For those of us who were around then, Nash had a lot of problems with his back in those early years with Dallas. Cuban wasn’t confident that he would make it the duration of the contract and was hesitant to overpay for him.
IIRC,
it was a many layer problem, but the back was part of the concern. Cuban was PO'd at some of Nash's defensive efforts in the playoffs. I remember playing SAS and Nash backing off Parker (or maybe Bibby) on the perimeter late in one game and allowing a wide open 3 that was part of a crushing loss. Nobody really felt a threat Nash wouldn't return but Cuban wanted to lowball the offer due to some of these concerns (which had to be shared by other MBT members). Cuban (who at the time was trying to buddy up with the players) thought he was stating an opening negotiating position, but PHX came in with a much bigger take-it-or-leave-it-RIGHT-NOW offer that ended any negotiation efforts, resulting in a total whiff for Cuban.
In JB's case, DAL still has Bird rights to match any offer, but there is a much higher ceiling than as an rFA. If KP is going to stay, and unless the team lights it up in the next two weeks, then you have to move JB and/or DFS while you can get a return and open up breathing room for the offseason.
(01-17-2022, 11:16 AM)rocky164 Wrote: [ -> ]Turner is 25
Yes, you are right. 33 is his number, not his age... sorry
(01-17-2022, 11:48 AM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]I have a premonition that we will trade Brunson to the Knicks..be the main floor general at MSG(where he seems to have strong ties) and they are building an exciting young team..Barrett/Reddish/Toppin/Robinson(Missing guard) and the insistent rumors of Zion...it seems too tempting... Surely we will have to wait for the off-season, for salary equalization...
but Randle for Brunson makes too much sense.. With the recent rumors that we're chasing Collins/Turner...it seems like a no-brainer that we're looking for a great to pair up with KP...and Randle fits that description perfectly (and honestly...I don't hate him)...
Dallas native He has expressed that he wanted to play for Mavs, although he is overwhelmed as 1 option in the Knicks,..I think as 2/3 he would fit perfectly in Mavs..very good rebounder/passer (for the position) and decent defender (can change) when motivated...
Something like..
Brunson(ST)/MBrown/Dallas22 for /Randle/Kemba or Burks/Dallas 23...
who says no...?
(The change of selections is only to be able to operate with all our picks)
Don't really think Randle is a good fit with Luka. His three point shooting last year looks like an outlier, which means he does not space the floor that well, and he is not a P&R player. Feel like he would spend a lot of time clogging the lane for Luka.
(01-17-2022, 12:18 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Don't really think Randle is a good fit with Luka. His three point shooting last year looks like an outlier, which means he does not space the floor that well, and he is not a P&R player. Feel like he would spend a lot of time clogging the lane for Luka.
Agree - he'd want the ball even more than Porzingis does.
(01-17-2022, 12:06 PM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]IIRC,
it was a many layer problem, but the back was part of the concern. Cuban was PO'd at some of Nash's defensive efforts in the playoffs. I remember playing SAS and Nash backing off Parker (or maybe Bibby) on the perimeter late in one game and allowing a wide open 3 that was part of a crushing loss. Nobody really felt a threat Nash wouldn't return but Cuban wanted to lowball the offer due to some of these concerns (which had to be shared by other MBT members). Cuban (who at the time was trying to buddy up with the players) thought he was stating an opening negotiating position, but PHX came in with a much bigger take-it-or-leave-it-RIGHT-NOW offer that ended any negotiation efforts, resulting in a total whiff for Cuban.
In JB's case, DAL still has Bird rights to match any offer, but there is a much higher ceiling than as an rFA. If KP is going to stay, and unless the team lights it up in the next two weeks, then you have to move JB and/or DFS while you can get a return and open up breathing room for the offseason.
This is exactly how I remember it too. I remember MC saying he never had a chance to match the offer as he was called when the deal was done.
(01-17-2022, 11:48 AM)Mikelo Wrote: [ -> ]Surely we will have to wait for the off-season, for salary equalization...
FWIW, I believe that a S&T deal in the offseason is going to be difficult in Brunson's case because his new deal will trigger the base year compensation rules. On a more immediate note, that will likely increase his trade value before the deadline to any team who wants to acquire him but doesn't have huge projected cap space.