Dear lord almighty,
please, oh pretty please, don't let the Mavs trade for such scrubs as Bamba, Hield, THT and so on.
On the other hand I would really enjoy reading this forum after Buddy's stellar defensive performances!
Buddy Love would replace THJ so you'd be swapping junk defense for junk defense but with better shooting. Love's contract expires a year earlier and he's healthy. I'm assuming he'd be a downgrade as a teammate. It's a bit of a wheel spinning move but I don't hate. I'm pretty sure RC would rather have THJ, especially if they can squeeze assets out of a trade.
(02-09-2022, 01:51 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Buddy Love would replace THJ so you'd be swapping junk defense for junk defense but with better shooting.
I think "better shooting" is accurate, especially this season. But, I think "swapping junk defense for junk defense" miiiiight be underselling just how junky Hield is on that end. I'm not saying Hardaway will ever remind anyone of prime Bruce Bowen, but I feel like it's wrong to lump him in with Hield on that end.
Not against it, necessarily, just saying...
Is it impossible to imagine a world where Kidd helps Hield become a serviceable defender in his system? I would like to think effort and system change, with a defensive minded coach, could bring Buddy closer to a neutral team defender. It most definitely can't be worse than THJ, who's also worse offensively, a year older and another year on his contract.
Hell, Kidd has me thinking Powell is a good defender these days.... jk jk
(02-09-2022, 01:58 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Is it impossible to imagine a world where Kidd helps Hield become a serviceable defender in his system?
No, not impossible. Big gap between
possible and
likely though.
(02-09-2022, 01:58 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]It most definitely can't be worse than THJ
Oh, but it can. It most definitely can. Also a big gap between
can and
will, but we tend to overemphasize the flaws of the players we see every night.
(02-09-2022, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think "better shooting" is accurate, especially this season. But, I think "swapping junk defense for junk defense" miiiiight be underselling just how junky Hield is on that end. I'm not saying Hardaway will ever remind anyone of prime Bruce Bowen, but I feel like it's wrong to lump him in with Hield on that end.
Not against it, necessarily, just saying...
If I'm underselling the defensive delta, I'd say you are underselling the shooting delta. Let Buddy get open looks from Luka and let's hear that nylon pop. In truth, it seems like a neutral move that you'd make because THJ got hurt. I'd be okay throwing in Josh and a SRP. Josh has played better but I'm far from being sold on him as anything more than a project.
(02-09-2022, 02:09 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm underselling the defensive delta, I'd say you are underselling the shooting delta. Let Buddy get open looks from Luka and let's hear that nylon pop. In truth, it seems like a neutral move that you'd make because THJ got hurt. I'd be okay throwing in Josh and a SRP. Josh has played better but I'm far from being sold on him as anything more than a project.
This is all fair.
I think I'm leaning the other way, mostly because I just don't think this team uses shooters the same way Carlisle's team did. I just didn't see them running Hardaway around screens before the catch like in years past, so I'm not sure what value there truly is in getting a guy like Hield who is qualified for a role like that but would be relegated to a standstill catch-and-shoot spacing role.
I honestly think you can find guys to do that well enough who are also defenders.
And maybe it's naive of me, but I'm starting to buy-in on this "defense first" thing they have going. I'm kind of ok with just letting Green and Ntilikina continue to duke it out for the 4th guard minutes. You're basically only going to play three of them in the playoffs, anyway. If one of those three gets hurt, I suppose I'd rue that statement, but something tells me Hield wouldn't be thrilled to come here and be the
4th guard, which is the role I believe he'd get.
(02-09-2022, 12:32 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Ross's contract isn't all that awful (though his play could be considered that way). Ross/expiring filler for Hardaway would actually be great for us financially.
I consider 11 mil for a player that does not belong on the court a terrible contract (and its not expiring). He would literally make our team worse unless he never played a minute. That is how bad he has been. I would rather hold on to THJ and pay the tax. If this is the kind of move we make, I will be horribly disappointed.
Been too, too long since I actually posted so I have been lurking the last few days. LOL. Given our challenges with assets, desire to keep JB/DFS & the real chance Lillard/Beal hit the market this summer, I think DAL could look into variations that land us Hield, Dragic & Holmes or Bagley. How that all goes down is tough to say exactly. I think there is absolutely an easy deal to make the swap for THJ/Hield. We'll sweeten a little to offset the extra years on THJ's contract vs Hield. Dragic is very likely a buyout but if we could trade and acquire a pick, that could be used to clear some money and the sweetener for the Hield deal, leaving our limited assets intact. After those two, let's use that TPE and bring in Holmes or Bagley(realizing that Holmes may require and actual asset). If we can trade Maxi for Holmes, all the better because it would leave the TPE in play. By Thursday afternoon we could be looking at:
Brunson/Dragic
Luke/Hield
Reggie
DFS
KP/
Plus insert whatever combination of bigs we have, depending on the actual deals made. Two of Powell, Maxi, Holmes, Bagley could be here and, maybe, a TPE acquisition.
That's an exponentially better team that we are fielding currently and would, if healthy, get us into the second round. It's also a team with better assets for next level moves in the summer at the draft.
Glad to see this place as active as it appears to be and so many of y'all here! I miss the old boards. The move to SI killed dallasbasketball.com, in my opinion. The level of their work, when compared to back in the day, has just become miserable. I still read and check in but, man, the days of Fish & DLord ruined me. LOL
(02-09-2022, 02:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]This is all fair.
I think I'm leaning the other way, mostly because I just don't think this team uses shooters the same way Carlisle's team did. I just didn't see them running Hardaway around screens before the catch like in years past, so I'm not sure what value there truly is in getting a guy like Hield who is qualified for a role like that but would be relegated to a standstill catch-and-shoot spacing role.
I honestly think you can find guys to do that well enough who are also defenders.
And maybe it's naive of me, but I'm starting to buy-in on this "defense first" thing they have going. I'm kind of ok with just letting Green and Ntilikina continue to duke it out for the 4th guard minutes. You're basically only going to play three of them in the playoffs, anyway. If one of those three gets hurt, I suppose I'd rue that statement, but something tells me Hield wouldn't be thrilled to come here and be the 4th guard, which is the role I believe he'd get.
Buddy had a great season in 18-19 when he was the guy. Things went downhill with the emergence of Fox and Luka Walton being the coach. Less of a focal point in the offense and less catch and shoot opportunities. He seems like a perfect candidate for needing a change of scenery and unfortunately for him, he landed with Carlisle which I think will be a disaster. A Kidd pairing would be preferable as would a defined and consistent role. He's bad on defense as everyone has mentioned so I wouldn't expect anything different. The nod I would give to THJ is effort. The question I'd have is who is better at creating their own shot, THJ or Buddy?
I'm not going to be bothered either way and we'll probably get outbid by the Lakers. I don't want to give up a FRP for the experiment. The Lakers trading for him would be funny because of his defensive weakness.
They're going to play 8-9 guys in the playoffs.
Luka
Brunson
DFS
Kleber
Porzingis
Bullock
Powell
All of the above will be in that rotation.
Green, Ntilikna, Sterling Brown and Burke all seem to be under some level of consideration for the 8th spot. If recent trends are telling, it would appear that Green has won that spot for now.
For the 9th spot, I assume that against certain teams, the runner up for #8 (Ntilikina, SBrown or Burke) will get a little burn. Against other teams, those minutes would go to Chriss.
If a trade target isn't going to clearly knock Green (and friends) or Chriss completely out of the conversation above, it's not worth doing, imho.
It's also kind of a guessing game. Will Porzingis be healthy? If so, I honestly don't know how much better you get by adding Holmes, who'd basically just be knocking Powell, who is already playing well these days, out of the mix. That doesn't address any of the current holes, really. If Porzingis is NOT healthy, you'd LOVE to have Holmes rotating with Powell, but not if you've traded Kleber and they have to play with Chriss, or even worse - together.
This is harder than it looks.
I think Hield is good enough to justify playing him ahead of Green and stifling the development we've been seeing recently, but will it yield enough juice for us to be glad they did that in a couple of years, or is it better to ride the promising kid in that spot right now? For all I know, some of his fans might want him to play ahead of Bullock, but I doubt he would (maybe I'm wrong).
(02-09-2022, 02:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Luka
Brunson
DFS
Kleber
Porzingis
Bullock
Powell
I like looking at it this way. Unless you are upgrading one of those 7, don't pull the trigger (with the exception of making a small move that sets up a "top-7 rotation player" move).
The problem with that rotation is THJ was supposed to be there. And everyone's assumption is that after the TDL, Dragic would be there too. Both of those things are looking less and less likely. Shot creation is a massive issue.
(02-09-2022, 02:35 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]They're going to play 8-9 guys in the playoffs.
Luka
Brunson
DFS
Kleber
Porzingis
Bullock
Powell
All of the above will be in that rotation.
Green, Ntilikna, Sterling Brown and Burke all seem to be under some level of consideration for the 8th spot. If recent trends are telling, it would appear that Green has won that spot for now.
For the 9th spot, I assume that against certain teams, the runner up for #8 (Ntilikina, SBrown or Burke) will get a little burn. Against other teams, those minutes would go to Chriss.
If a trade target isn't going to clearly knock Green (and friends) or Chriss completely out of the conversation above, it's not worth doing, imho.
It's also kind of a guessing game. Will Porzingis be healthy? If so, I honestly don't know how much better you get by adding Holmes, who'd basically just be knocking Powell, who is already playing well these days, out of the mix. That doesn't address any of the current holes, really. If Porzingis is NOT healthy, you'd LOVE to have Holmes rotating with Powell, but not if you've traded Kleber and they have to play with Chriss, or even worse - together.
This is harder than it looks.
I think Hield is good enough to justify playing him ahead of Green and stifling the development we've been seeing recently, but will it yield enough juice for us to be glad they did that in a couple of years, or is it better to ride the promising kid in that spot right now? For all I know, some of his fans might want him to play ahead of Bullock, but I doubt he would (maybe I'm wrong).
THJ should be back for the playoffs
(02-09-2022, 02:09 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]If I'm underselling the defensive delta, I'd say you are underselling the shooting delta. Let Buddy get open looks from Luka and let's hear that nylon pop. In truth, it seems like a neutral move that you'd make because THJ got hurt. I'd be okay throwing in Josh and a SRP. Josh has played better but I'm far from being sold on him as anything more than a project.
Had this same argument with Hero not long ago. Hield's actual on court offensive impact has not really been much better than THJ the last couple of years. He is a 6th man making over 20 mil a year. I could live with sending THJ and a second, but my guess is when he gets here he we are going to have the same issues with him as THJ, and I don't believe he has the same locker room presence THJ does.
Also, not sure why you are so down on Green? He is showing a lot of improvement and is young. If we get actual value out of him in a trade I am fine with it, but don't really think it makes sense just to dump him in a trade like a second round pick.
(02-09-2022, 02:39 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Had this same argument with Hero not long ago. Hield's actual on court offensive impact has not really been much better than THJ the last couple of years. He is a 6th man making over 20 mil a year. I could live with sending THJ and a second, but my guess is when he gets here he we are going to have the same issues with him as THJ, and I don't believe he has the same locker room presence THJ does.
Also, not sure why you are so down on Green? He is showing a lot of improvement and is young. If we get actual value out of him in a trade I am fine with it, but don't really think it makes sense just to dump him in a trade like a second round pick.
I went into Love more a few posts down. Carlisle maximized THJ and it has shown this season. Walton tanked Love. Maybe Carlisle and Love will be a great fit but I really imagine it will go the opposite direction with how terrible he is on defense.
Green is a great athlete. He's got good vision and passing ability. He's a bad shooter and is way too timid. He can use his athleticism to stay in front of guys but he doesn't seem to stop players from getting to were they want to go or bother their shots. He's too much of a liability on the offensive end to use in a playoff rotation.
(02-09-2022, 02:39 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with that rotation is THJ was supposed to be there. And everyone's assumption is that after the TDL, Dragic would be there too. Both of those things are looking less and less likely. Shot creation is a massive issue.
1) I think THJ's injury has helped to clear things up quite a bit. But, sure, pencil him into Green's spot, or into Bullock's moving Bullock down, and Green gets the shaft, which to your point is the same as adding Hield. But, my question is: given that the 4th guy won't play that much when it matters, isn't it simply better to roll with Luka/Brunson/Bullock for now and develop the kid? Hasn't he shown enough to earn that? It's subjective, so I'm really asking.
2) Ditto for Dragic, for that matter. I think the convo there is a bit different, because A) he brings a different skillset than Bullock/Hardaway/Hield, and therefore not so much overlap. Him playing 4th guard ahead of Green or Ntilikina makes a little more sense to me for that reason (adding a different dimension) and B) you don't have to can Green or Ntilikina to get him (if he's bought out and wants to come here). You just don't play those guys in
this season's playoffs is all. They'd still be here and still play a bit between now and then. Hield is going to want minutes and a role right away. He's not old like Dragic, who has been there and done that. Plus, I'm assuming at least one of those guys would be in the deal for Hield (might be wrong about that part).
BTW, GREAT TO SEE YOU, @"jdb152"!!!!
(02-09-2022, 02:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]It's subjective, so I'm really asking.
See above re: Green.
I'm not championing the Love trade. It's fine either way.
The defensive story is nice for the Mavs and all but the playoffs is a different animal. We might be okay against Utah but I don't think we have the firepower for the Suns, Memphis, or GSW. I want no part of Jokic either.
(02-09-2022, 02:51 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The defensive story is nice for the Mavs and all but the playoffs is a different animal. We might be okay against Utah but I don't think we have the firepower for the Suns, Memphis, or GSW. I want no part of Jokic either.
Well, we can all agree on that.