MavsBoard

(01-19-2022, 02:14 AM)OBX Maverick Wrote: [ -> ] 
Agreed…..and I’ll add one more thing. He’s paper thin which prevents him from regularly finishing at the rim and from consistently being in good defensive/rebounding position.

IMO, he'll bulk up as he ages. Natural progression.

Moses worked with Ty Chandler during last offseason. If he continues, is it reasonable to expect future improvement?

A lot of energy and a big desire to play hard makes you want to root for his success.

(01-19-2022, 09:36 AM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, he'll bulk up as he ages. Natural progression.

Yep...and get even slower. 

Not in response to @"michaeltex":
I can't believe I'm getting resistance the simple (objective) idea that this kid doesn't move his feet to change direction  (or start from a stopped position) fast enough in half court defensive situations. It's pretty much the the biggest thing about his game that sticks out to me when I watch him.

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(01-19-2022, 09:36 AM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]A lot of energy and a big desire to play hard makes you want to root for his success.

Totally agree with this! Love the kid's tendency to play hard!

Wait - an actual full strength game?
https://twitter.com/mavspr/status/148385...22563?s=21

(01-19-2022, 12:30 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Wait - an actual full strength game?
https://twitter.com/mavspr/status/148385...22563?s=21

Good.  I want to see more of that starting lineup, especially against better competition.

(01-19-2022, 12:51 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Good.  I want to see more of that starting lineup, especially against better competition.

What is everyone's preference of DFS vs Bullock.   I thought when we signed Bullock that probably meant DFS would eventually be moved or not resigned as Bullock was targeted by the new regime.   I wanted to give a lot of time to get to know Bullock's game before I made a decision.   Bullock has played better recently and I would still want to get a bigger sample size before I made a final determination.  But so far, it has been a TKO in favor of DFS.  Even if DFS comes in at 13-15 million per year.   At this point, I would prefer to sign DFS and try to move off Bullock if there were tax considerations with the front office.  I wouldn't expect any movement now and there is still a lot of time left in the season.   But this offseason.....Thoughts?

(01-19-2022, 02:25 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]What is everyone's preference of DFS vs Bullock.   I thought when we signed Bullock that probably meant DFS would eventually be moved or not resigned as Bullock was targeted by the new regime.   I wanted to give a lot of time to get to know Bullock's game before I made a decision.   Bullock has played better recently and I would still want to get a bigger sample size before I made a final determination.  But so far, it has been a TKO in favor of DFS.  Even if DFS comes in at 13-15 million per year.   At this point, I would prefer to sign DFS and try to move off Bullock if there were tax considerations with the front office.  I wouldn't expect any movement now and there is still a lot of time left in the season.   But this offseason.....Thoughts?

So far I also prefer DFS over Bullock.  DFS seems to positively affect the game more with his overall play than Bullock.  Bullock has played better recently...if you had asked me about him a month or so ago...I'd have paid to trade him.  Now we might get a little for him...

I don't need a bigger sample size.

(01-19-2022, 02:25 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]What is everyone's preference of DFS vs Bullock.   I thought when we signed Bullock that probably meant DFS would eventually be moved or not resigned as Bullock was targeted by the new regime.   I wanted to give a lot of time to get to know Bullock's game before I made a decision.   Bullock has played better recently and I would still want to get a bigger sample size before I made a final determination.  But so far, it has been a TKO in favor of DFS.  Even if DFS comes in at 13-15 million per year.   At this point, I would prefer to sign DFS and try to move off Bullock if there were tax considerations with the front office.  I wouldn't expect any movement now and there is still a lot of time left in the season.   But this offseason.....Thoughts?

Don't think of Bullock as a potential replacement.  DFS can play the 4 (and does quite a bit).  Bullock can't really play that role.  Last year DFS was our only plus wing defender (Looking at Maxi as a big) and I think the goal was to bring in more perimeter defense (Bullock/Brown/Frank).  I was never a fan of the Bullock contract but I don't think its an either/or with him and DFS.  Personally I believe in order for this defense to perform at high level we need at least 2 of (Maxi/DFS/Bullock/Green/Frank) on the court at all times.

(01-18-2022, 08:19 PM)BackToSquareOne Wrote: [ -> ]I did some calculations on "double" S&T - such as Robinson for Brunson. This is decidedly dicey to figure out!

However, just as a sample, with Brunson 18mm and Robinson 10.8mm in the first year, the Mavs adding 19.01mm and the Knicks 24.21mm seems (I hope!) to work. I don't think either side probably want those additional salaries or even possibly have them on hand, but it is (extremely) theoretically doable.

[numbers edited for one less error]

So, for example, a double S&T (Brunson and Robinson at 18mm and 10.8mm, resp.) structured like

Brunson + Powell, Boban, Burke and one of either Chriss or Ntilikina 

for

Robinson + Walker, Burks and Reddish

seems to work (but substituting Toppin for Reddish, or Sterling Brown for Boban or Burke, or Moses for Frank/Chriss all don't). [caveat emptor, no numbers guaranteed]

(01-19-2022, 02:53 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Don't think of Bullock as a potential replacement.  DFS

Totally agree. 

To me, DFS is the only player of his type on the roster. I think there's some overlap with Bullock on one end of his spectrum, and some with Kleber on the other end. But there's nobody else right in DFS's sweet spot, and to my mind they should have 2-3 guys like that. 

Bullock, to me, brings up a healthy debate about whether or not THJ is needed here, and I think we can mix Josh Green into that conversation now, too, but it doesn't even occur to me to compare Bullock to DFS. I've always been a little surprised that people make that connection. I guess because they're both supposedly defenders? Past that, I think they're completely different types - different types of defenders, even.

(01-19-2022, 04:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Totally agree. 

To me, DFS is the only player of his type on the roster, imo. I think there's some overlap with Bullock on one end of his spectrum, and some with Kleber on the other end. But there's nobody else right in DFS's sweet spot, and to my mind they should have 2-3 guys like that. 

Bullock, to me, brings up a healthy debate about whether or not THJ is needed here, and I think we can mix Josh Green into that conversation now, too, but it doesn't even occur to me to compare Bullock to DFS. I've always been a little surprised that people make that connection. I guess because they're both supposedly defenders? Past that, I think they're completely different types - different types of defenders, even.

I figured Bullock was an addition of "talent" in an area (wing) where the Mavs simply needed more good talent to put on the floor. With the idea being less about him being here to replace anyone in particular, and more about just adding talent to the roster in an area of obvious need.

So, once he's in the mix, then you figure out the ramifications, the minutes, the rotations, any changes that will flow from it, etc.

So to me, it's all a work in progress to determine where they'll end up. Right now, it does look like THJ might need to be on the way out. But what if we got back the THJ from the last 2 seasons (because, consider that we assume we'll eventually get back the Luka that can shoot)? If so, we might think very differently, so that chapter is still being written imo.

(01-19-2022, 04:24 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Right now, it does look like THJ might need to be on the way out. But what if we got back the THJ from the last 2 seasons (because, consider that we assume we'll eventually get back the Luka that can shoot)? If so, we might think very differently, so that chapter is still being written imo.

Totally agree about the idea that "effective THJ" which, contrary to popular opinion, has existed here in Dallas and might very well exist again, would be helpful and possibly not worth giving up on just yet. 

The reason I brought him up is because I see three players who seem to be in competition for the same minutes: THJ, Bullock and Green. Every player has their individual strengths and weaknesses, of course, so I'm not suggesting that the three are anything close to the same player, but I do think that now that we've seen how each is used here in this system, those are the three in competition with each other for a specific group of minutes. 

I think DFS and Ntilikina could be lumped in with that group, but I think both of their games are different enough (in two opposite directions) to prevent them from directly conflicting with that trio. I suppose Green has more overlap with Ntilikina than either Bullock or Hardaway, given how great he is at defending the point of attack around those high screens, but that's a different conversation. I honestly don't look at Bullock and think "you know, the Mavs don't really need DFS anymore." 

My premise (for argument sake) is that we're dealing with three, distinctly (enough) different groups here:

1) Guard/wing (point of attack, 1-2 types) - Ntilikina, Green (both have to eat minutes leftover by Luka and Brunson)
2) Wing (2-3 types) - THJ, Bullock, Green
3) Wing/Forward (3-4 types) I think DFS is the only one on the roster who fits this mold

I think Brown is super interesting, because to my mind he has been tried in all three of those roles this year, with success and failure accrued in each. I think he might be the closest player to DFS that's on the roster, but doesn't have the size for it, really. I think they hoped he'd be a solution for category 1, but I like Ntilikina and Green both better in that job. 

Maybe I'm overthinking this, idk. I feel pretty strongly though that DFS is an NBA starter, and honestly, a better than average one. A good one, even. Further, I just don't think he should be viewed as expendable in any way, at least until there's another player who can do what he does on the roster.

(01-19-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Totally agree about the idea that "effective THJ" which, contrary to popular opinion, has existed here in Dallas and might very well exist again, would be helpful and possibly not worth giving up on just yet. 

"effective THJ" has only ever existed under Carlisle as the coach. None of his other stops has THJ come close to replicating the kind of efficiency he put out under RC. 

With that in mind, I don't have much confidence in getting him back. And I'm quite disappointed. I wrote before the beginning of last season that we should move of THJ and cash in on his career year because he might likely regress. Turns out I was wrong on the timing by about a year. THJ has to be moved. Hopefully for someone that can either move Powell down the totem pole (i.e. Turner, Holmes, etc.), or for someone to replace him (i.e. Danny Green, Buddy Hield, Jerami Grant etc). 

(01-19-2022, 04:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I'm overthinking this, idk. I feel pretty strongly though that DFS is an NBA starter, and honestly, a better than average one. A good one, even. Further, I just don't think he should be viewed as expendable in any way, at least until there's another player who can do what he does on the roster.

DFS is 100% an NBA starter. He is a solid role player and exactly what this team needs more of. In fact the true goal of the Mavs is to get such good wing depth that DFS is moved to the bench!

(01-19-2022, 04:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]In fact the true goal of the Mavs is to get such good wing depth that DFS is moved to the bench!

You had me until this false propaganda...tried to sneak @"ItsGoTime"'s agenda in without me noticing. 

DFS deserves to start here until he's too old to walk, if that's what he wants. He's a treasure.

(01-19-2022, 05:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You had me until this false propaganda...tried to sneak @"ItsGoTime"'s agenda in without me noticing. 

DFS deserves to start here until he's too old to walk, if that's what he wants. He's a treasure.

You don't think the Mavs would be a better team with a player that is a better version of DFS to the point it makes sense to bring DFS off the bench?

(01-19-2022, 06:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]You don't think the Mavs would be a better team with a player that is a better version of DFS to the point it makes sense to bring DFS off the bench?

That would push someone else out of the starting rotation.  It would KP/X/DFS/Luka/Brunson.  Depending on how good X is, that might be in contending territory.

(01-19-2022, 07:02 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]That would push someone else out of the starting rotation.  It would KP/X/DFS/Luka/Brunson.  Depending on how good X is, that might be in contending territory.

Agreed, that's the way I go, and frankly, DFS probably wouldn't even be the next guy I'd try to upgrade after that.

(01-19-2022, 06:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]You don't think the Mavs would be a better team with a player that is a better version of DFS to the point it makes sense to bring DFS off the bench?

Who is this mythical creature that you speak of; this better version of DFS?

(01-19-2022, 04:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]"effective THJ" has only ever existed under Carlisle as the coach. None of his other stops has THJ come close to replicating the kind of efficiency he put out under RC. 

Effective THJ was a mirage. Rick did good with him, we should have just wished THJ well on his way when his contract expired. Instead we signed him to a big deal that makes absolutely no sense.

(01-19-2022, 07:56 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Who is this mythical creature that you speak of; this better version of DFS?