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I absolutely think part of it was from the coaching staff and possibly a spillover from the dysfunctionality of the front office as a whole with Haralabob.

For example, I've already detailed how I think Carlisle didn't help him in the post up and why several times on the board, so I think absolutely it was coaching to a degree. 

Carlisle talking down the postup and how it doesn't work with the analytics -- KP with "I want to post up" pushback privately and publicly -- the extremely limited way they went about getting him into the post which was lame -- the poor (or no) entry passes.

I think if they ran a decent postup set for KP, you might not see him slipping every screen to try to pin some dude down.   I remember KP talking about his limited minutes when he was working his way back from injury, where he said he felt more pressure to force up shots to get into a rhythm because of the limited minutes/touches, etc.   That's telling to me, so you have to manage that.

And for the RECORD, I don't like that kind of talk from a player, but if he's here, then you have to work around that, get rid of the employee or correct that, because slinking off to the break room and having complaining sessions about it will only make it worse all over your organization the longer it goes on.  Some change has to be made, and they've made one giant one, in the coaching staff and front office...and hopefully, Haralabob being gone or at least extremely limited in his personal contact with the team.

If Haralabob is the jerk that people portray him to be, I don't see Kidd taking any of that crap from him anyway and probably less so than Rick.

(08-03-2021, 09:47 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]All of that to say (and again, might be semantics) I don't believe they looked at it and thought "Carlisle was the reason KP sucked - he'll be fine." I think it's more like "we're screwed if KP isn't better - let's make sure that happens."

Another way to maybe put it....

"Carlisle better have sucked...or we are screwed."

(08-03-2021, 09:42 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think Slovenia (as @"dirkfansince1998" has stated) has the blue print. You don't need other stars to be successful with Luka....AND it isn't doesn't have to be "hero ball" at all.

Fixed that for you.  Slovenia also has exhibited some of the same stagnant offensive problems as the Mavs when Luka is off the floor (especially early on), but any team would do that without their best player.

I absolutely think that it degenerated into a more hero ball system as Rick lost interest toward the end of the year (and yes, I think he was burning out on being here, and that could have multiplied when he realized that Indiana might have been open -- JUST my opinion, no sources, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in some interview 10 years from now or in someone's autobiography in the future, that this was confirmed.

(08-03-2021, 09:59 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]Carlisle talking down the postup and how it doesn't work with the analytics -- KP with "I want to post up" pushback privately and publicly -- the extremely limited way they went about getting him into the post which was lame -- the poor (or no) entry passes.

Yeah, I agree there was a tug-of-war here. 

The thing is: I happen to believe Carlisle was right (I get that you disagree). I just don't see many people this side of Jokic and Embiid living in the post much around the league, and they're both AMAZING players. KP hasn't really been very good with the ball in his hands here, and it seems like everyone has been trying to tell him that, from Carlisle's comments to Luka not passing to him, on down the list. 

Ironically, before everything hit the fan, Carlisle was very complimentary of KP's exit interview, saying things like "he finally understands how modern centers need to play...can't just back off in deep drop..." etc, etc. I have no idea if this was sincere excitement or just political posturing meant to send KP off for a good summer of work with the right attitude, but I'm a little disappointed that we might have just started this whole "teaching KP" process all over again. 

But, none of that is to say that I believe Carlisle was 100% in the right about this. Obviously, the KP situation, no matter where your mind goes to examine the problem, IS a problem, and one that's holding the team back. It was SOME combo of the player himself, his injury/rehab stuff, the coach and staff, the player's fit within the coach's system, the player's desire to fit into that system, his relationship with Luka and/or other players on the team, Luka's experience level playing with someone like KP who thinks of himself as a huge deal, the fact that KP had just gotten his max extension (that he was clearly worried about in NY), etc, etc, etc. 

I sincerely hope they all get on the same page and get it right. I really, really do. At this point, it's really the only way forward. Not to succeed with KP would mean more pain ahead.

Astute^

(08-03-2021, 10:07 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely think that it degenerated into a more hero ball system as Rick lost interest toward the end of the year (and yes, I think he was burning out on being here, and that could have multiplied when he realized that Indiana might have been open -- JUST my opinion, no sources, but I wouldn't be surprised if, in some interview 10 years from now or in someone's autobiography in the future, that this was confirmed.

Now THIS is some dot-connecting that I agree with. And, to be fair, @"Kammrath" often pointed out during the season that he felt Carlisle didn't have the "fire" he seemed to have in previous seasons. 

My take is that he played his Luka relationship really conservatively, letting himself get pushed around too much, knowing that taking the kid on aggressively (which might have needed to happen) might have resulted in disaster for himself and/or the team. I think this sucked the life out of him over time, and while it's obviously insane to imagine someone not wanting to be here with Luka (and he knows this) I think he was unconsciously ready to bounce when he did (though still having the utmost respect for Luka's future and talent).

(08-03-2021, 10:12 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I agree there was a tug-of-war here. 

The thing is: I happen to believe Carlisle was right (I get that you disagree). I just don't see many people this side of Jokic and Embiid living in the post much around the league, and they're both AMAZING players. KP hasn't really been very good with the ball in his hands here, and it seems like everyone has been trying to tell him that, from Carlisle's comments to Luka not passing to him, on down the list. 

Ironically, before everything hit the fan, Carlisle was very complimentary of KP's exit interview, saying things like "he finally understands how modern centers need to play...can't just back off in deep drop..." etc, etc. I have no idea if this was sincere excitement or just political posturing meant to send KP off for a good summer of work with the right attitude, but I'm a little disappointed that we might have just started this whole "teaching KP" process all over again. 

But, none of that is to say that I believe Carlisle was 100% in the right about this. Obviously, the KP situation, no matter where your mind goes to examine the problem, IS a problem, and one that's holding the team back. It was SOME combo of the player himself, his injury/rehab stuff, the coach and staff, the player's fit within the coach's system, the player's desire to fit into that system, his relationship with Luka and/or other players on the team, Luka's experience level playing with someone like KP who thinks of himself as a huge deal, the fact that KP had just gotten his max extension (that he was clearly worried about in NY), etc, etc, etc. 

I sincerely hope they all get on the same page and get it right. I really, really do. At this point, it's really the only way forward. Not to succeed with KP would mean more pain ahead.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him getting 15 touches in the post, but I think there's got to be some effectiveness in the midpost to the post to maximize him.  With the way our offense was so stagnant when Luka went out, because our offense was Luka dribble around until someone gets open and without Luka, that doesn't work, they've got to find some other options there, and KP just jacking 3s or driving left (why not right) won't get it.  

My hope is that he works on a post/midpost go to and driving right (among other things) in this off-season to help it out.

(08-03-2021, 10:18 AM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]Don't get me wrong, I don't want him getting 15 touches in the post, but I think there's got to be some effectiveness in the midpost to the post to maximize him.  With the way our offense was so stagnant when Luka went out, because our offense was Luka dribble around until someone gets open and without Luka, that doesn't work, they've got to find some other options there, and KP just jacking 3s or driving left (why not right) won't get it.  

My hope is that he works on a post/midpost go to and driving right in this off-season to help it out.

Yeah, I gotcha. And trust me, we ALL want the Mavs' MAX player to be able to thrive on the team.

(08-02-2021, 11:05 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]My first rough draft for the new roster (as of tonight)....certainly with lots of mistakes:

Two things that have stuck out to me with all of this SnT talk. The Mavs new FO can make a decision on Brunson's long term future with the team as early as right now, since he's eligible for an extension. That move/decision will be a big key in roster construction this year and next. Also, DFS has made very little money to this point and has developed nicely. He will be 29 next year and 3&D guys have been getting paid, it's his last chance for a decent payday... If the Mavs don't want to be the team that dishes out the "big" contract next year (~10M per year) then they can move him this offseason or he can be a SnT piece next offseason? I think DFS is the movable piece for any roster upgrades, with Green (development) hopefully being the cheaper replacement and Bullock being the vet replacement.

(08-04-2021, 08:52 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]Two things that have stuck out to me with all of this SnT talk. The Mavs new FO can make a decision on Brunson's long term future with the team as early as right now, since he's eligible for an extension. That move/decision will be a big key in roster construction this year and next. Also, DFS has made very little money to this point and has developed nicely. He will be 29 next year and 3&D guys have been getting paid, it's his last chance for a decent payday... If the Mavs don't want to be the team that dishes out the "big" contract next year (~10M per year) then they can move him this offseason or he can be a SnT piece next offseason? I think DFS is the movable piece for any roster upgrades, with Green (development) hopefully being the cheaper replacement and Bullock being the vet replacement.

I'd offer DFS an $8m per extension and see if he bites.

On salary chart, Brunson is fully guaranteed salary. Bullock is MLE, so less than that number. THJ is probably closer to 16M or 16.1M.

(08-04-2021, 01:27 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]THJ is probably closer to 16M or 16.1M.

Oh, really? I thought that was the number when the report was $84M, then the next report came out at $88M.

(08-04-2021, 01:17 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'd offer DFS an $8m per extension and see if he bites.

I'm willing to go as high as 12m per year for DFS. Money whip him early and lock him up.

(08-03-2021, 10:17 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]My take is that he played his Luka relationship really conservatively, letting himself get pushed around too much, knowing that taking the kid on aggressively (which might have needed to happen) might have resulted in disaster for himself and/or the team.

I believe this. Carlisle was aware of the risks of fighting that battle. And KP was coming along given the curve he was on coming off the injury treadmill.

Kidd now has a healthy KP and a new philosophy, and hopefully a reservoir of respect that he can lean on to push KP a little. Plus it already looks like there is going to be some give n take. Which I think will be good for KP’s engagement. Carlisle was not the type to give.

(08-03-2021, 10:16 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Astute^

Bless you

(08-04-2021, 01:31 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, really? I thought that was the number when the report was $84M, then the next report came out at $88M.

I thought the original number was $72M, then changed to $74M...

...is it possible you're confusing the numbers with the rumored Detroit and Pelicans offers that he turned down?

(08-04-2021, 04:13 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm willing to go as high as 12m per year for DFS. Money whip him early and lock him up.

I think that's too much.  He still has decencies in dribbling, passing and his stroke can be a little inconsistent.  After $10m, I'd start to have pause.

(08-04-2021, 05:23 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I think that's too much.  He still has decencies in dribbling, passing and his stroke can be a little inconsistent.  After $10m, I'd start to have pause.

To me, the interesting thing to observe isn't the price, it's whether or not they're willing to extend anyone besides Luka this summer. In other words, have they started to truly transition to being an over-the-cap team, or are they leaving the door open to stay near it next summer by letting DFS go and just sliding Bullock into his spot? 

I think that might tell us a lot about how much they truly believe in KP, and it might have implications on how the lockerrom works in the short term. To stick with this, specific example, DFS isn't stupid. They sign Bullock to a longer deal, and then refuse him an extension? That's alarm bells, imo. He's a great person (seems like it anyway) so I'm not suggesting he'd cause problems or give less than 100% (consciously) but there is an "I am a part of something" aspect to all of this that could possibly be upset, imo.

(08-04-2021, 05:40 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]DFS isn't stupid

darn right

(08-04-2021, 04:13 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm willing to go as high as 12m per year for DFS. Money whip him early and lock him up.

$12M/year to DFS would

a) bring out the pitchforks for the new MBT "bidding against themselves"
b) quickly turn DFS into the new DP in the eyes of internet fandom