MavsBoard

(02-12-2022, 04:49 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Is the Mavs 1st round pick going to be enough to dump THJ this offseason? I'm not sure what the going rate is to absorb 3yrs $54m coming off a broken foot. It seems like Dinwiddie might be easier to get rid of with only 2 years left.

I think one or both of them might be movable in a trade that doesn't qualify as a "dump." At least I'm sure that's the hope.

(02-12-2022, 04:49 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Great stuff.  Here's a technique we've not thought of regarding 2023...

I was complaining about total lack of creativity from Mavs in one of recent posts. We only owe 1 FRP, which means we don't owe 6 in next 7 seven years, yet Mavs seem complitely blocked by this one owed pick.

(02-12-2022, 04:49 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Is the Mavs 1st round pick going to be enough to dump THJ this offseason? I'm not sure what the going rate is to absorb 3yrs $54m coming off a broken foot. It seems like Dinwiddie might be easier to get rid of with only 2 years left.

The goal should not be salary dump. The goal should be to use the salary in a trade for a better player.

(02-12-2022, 05:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]The goal should not be salary dump. The goal should be to use the salary in a trade for a better player.

Absolutely. And, I don't think anyone is confused enough to think they're in position to put a package together for a star right now, but I think it's possible to make 1-3 moves this summer that improve the team and get headed in the right direction. From there, you can imagine they'll get closer at the following deadline or the next summer. I think this is all more possible now that Porzingis is out and gone, as there will be more options for mixing and matching to find something that works. 

It's definitely not a great place to be, 4 years in, but at least now they can get started on the second attempt. 

Safe to say the whole "rookie contract/early cap space" part of Luka's era here was a failure on the part of the front office. I just think some of us started grieving earlier than others. I mourned all of this over a year ago when it became clear Porzingis had been an extremely expensive misfire, but held out hope that they could snag someone this past summer with the last bit of cap room. Once Giannis signed that extension though, it was all probably over in reality (I realize there were still other paths that could've led to a better place than they we are now - just saying). 

Hell, I give credit to @"ItsGoTime" and some others who knew the cap space wouldn't work out. They were right! I still think the right choices could've made that plan work for the team, it's just that they targeted the top level, who (predictably) didn't want to come play with a Euro who was barely old enough to drink. 

If they find themselves in that position again when Luka is 28 or so, I think it will be a different story, but it seems ridiculous to plan for that now - too far away. Time to start making those incremental upgrades, in the meantime. In that context, I believe it's good that KP is gone, for reasons pertaining to salary structure, hierarchy in the locker room, deal making flexibility and on-court style of play. 

Now, they can start to improve. They still have to make better choices than they have, recently, but this was a necessary first step, imho.

(02-12-2022, 04:49 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]This has enormous short-term trade implications for the Heat. Since they aren't giving away a first-round pick until 2025, they suddenly have access to either the 2022 or 2023 pick for a possible deal. They could...save it for the offseason and package both of them together for something bigger. 

Once the Heat actually make their 2022 pick, the Stepien Rule doesn't apply to it, theoretically allowing them to make the pick on behalf of another team before consummating a trade. If the Heat go hunting for another superstar this offseason as they so often do, having multiple upcoming first-round picks to dangle will likely be quite helpful.

I'll plant a seed I don't really want to plant.  

D. Rose is a great fix for any BYC issures related to Brunson in NY this summer.  He's $14,520,730 next season.  Brunson's deal can start between $18,840,000 and $19,620,000 and not have a BYC issue in a swap for Rose.  Dallas will still have it's TPE, so other things could come back our way from NY.  Maybe part of the deal is doing something like what Miami did above.  Then suddenly we have two picks to pair with someone in a larger deal.

(02-12-2022, 05:31 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Safe to say the whole "rookie contract/early cap space" part of Luka's era here was a failure on the part of the front office. I just think some of us started grieving earlier than others. I mourned all of this over a year ago when it became clear Porzingis had been an extremely expensive misfire, but held out hope that they could snag someone this past summer with the last bit of cap room. Once Giannis signed that extension though, it was all probably over in reality (I realize there were still other paths that could've led to a better place than they we are now - just saying). 

Hell, I give credit to @ItsGoTime and some others who knew the cap space wouldn't work out. They were right! I still think the right choices could've made that plan work for the team, it's just that they targeted the top level, who (predictably) didn't want to come play with a Euro who was barely old enough to drink. 

This is where I am at. Well...except for the capspace could have worked part. Maybe I am just out of energy for another rant. I complained about the Johnson/Burke/WCS summer. Was super toxic when they traded for Redick. Lashed out when they presented Bullock and Brown as the new key pieces last summer.
I am not overly positive but at least they realized that the current path with KP was a dead end. It should have happened earlier but it is a small step in the right direction. Maybe they will fall right back into the same old patterns next summer. But for now I am more hopeful than a week ago.

(02-12-2022, 05:47 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I am not overly positive but at least they realized that the current path with KP was a dead end. It should have happened earlier but it is a small step in the right direction. Maybe they will fall right back into the same old patterns next summer. But for now I am more hopeful than a week ago.

(02-12-2022, 04:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think one or both of them might be movable in a trade that doesn't qualify as a "dump." At least I'm sure that's the hope.

Everyone is movable, but the issue I see is how much salary has to come back. Even though Cuban has indicated he's willing to pay the luxury tax, I don't think he's going to go overboard with it on a team that may not be capable of winning a playoff series. 

Let's assume all they do is waive Frank, sign their 1st round pick, and re-sign Brunson to a deal starting at $18m. That would likely put them around $167m in total salary with a projected tax level of $147m. That equates to a tax bill of $45m. Adding a starting center through free agency or moving THJ for a (likely) marginal upgrade is going to get incredibly expensive.

(02-12-2022, 05:02 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]The goal should not be salary dump. The goal should be to use the salary in a trade for a better player.

I would much prefer the upgrade path, but I'm trying to be realistic based on the likely trade value of those players and how much tax the Mavs are going to be paying. I think if THJ had any value whatsoever he would have already been gone at the deadline.

(02-12-2022, 07:12 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]I think if THJ had any value whatsoever he would have already been gone at the deadline.

It all depends how many picks you attach to him and who are you dealing them for.

How much difference does a creative cap guru make? Anwered with another question:

— How many times have had to watch other teams clear cap space and get valuable players? Miami, wherever Daryl Morey is, Lakers, Chicago (this last off-season)….it goes on and on.  We just have not been on par IMO. Probably not close to be honest.

Enter Andrew Baker (I promise he is not a known acquaintance of any sort) and the first significant trade move is “weird” and mostly unpopular. I think (i hope, please, please, please!) it is because this guy is seeing things that need to be done 5 steps before the old regime did.  We may be in for another iffy looking trade or even two before he can he can structure the salaries and talent in a way we can be flexible, creative, and proactive in our FO.  Could it mean a THJ dump? I dont know…but if he is what I am hoping….whoever comes back will have a salary and talent level that is a chess piece for the future.  I think we have to give Nico and Baker a chance and hope Cuban does not mess it up. 

The trade was definitely different and unsettling…..are we on a new path? It appears so.  It MIGHT be a big improvement. Lets see what happens……

(02-12-2022, 07:40 PM)Davemo Wrote: [ -> ]How much difference does a creative cap guru make? Anwered with another question:

— How many times have had to watch other teams clear cap space and get valuable players? Miami, wherever Daryl Morey is, Lakers, Chicago (this last off-season)….it goes on and on.  We just have not been on par IMO. Probably not close to be honest.

Enter Andrew Baker (I promise he is not a known acquaintance of any sort) and the first significant trade move is “weird” and mostly unpopular. I think (i hope, please, please, please!) it is because this guy is seeing things that need to be done 5 steps before the old regime did.  We may be in for another iffy looking trade or even two before he can he can structure the salaries and talent in a way we can be flexible, creative, and proactive in our FO.  Could it mean a THJ dump? I dont know…but if he is what I am hoping….whoever comes back will have a salary and talent level that is a chess piece for the future.  I think we have to give Nico and Baker a chance and hope Cuban does not mess it up. 

The trade was definitely different and unsettling…..are we on a new path? It appears so.  It MIGHT be a big improvement. Lets see what happens……

KL has basically been beating this drum only worded differently. This is basically my biggest hope for this trade cause hoping SD and DB become close to equal value to their contracts has a very small likelihood. I’m basically hoping DB can at least get to custodian status.

I don’t see the deals we could’ve made if we just had the ability to free up cap space or picks. I don’t see any reason to believe our front office has been incapable of creative cap works. Rather, they’ve been unable to secure the opportunity to need such maneuvers. Am I wrong?

(02-12-2022, 07:40 PM)Davemo Wrote: [ -> ]How much difference does a creative cap guru make? Anwered with another question:

— How many times have had to watch other teams clear cap space and get valuable players? Miami, wherever Daryl Morey is, Lakers, Chicago (this last off-season)….it goes on and on.  We just have not been on par IMO. Probably not close to be honest.

Enter Andrew Baker (I promise he is not a known acquaintance of any sort) and the first significant trade move is “weird” and mostly unpopular. I think (i hope, please, please, please!) it is because this guy is seeing things that need to be done 5 steps before the old regime did.  We may be in for another iffy looking trade or even two before he can he can structure the salaries and talent in a way we can be flexible, creative, and proactive in our FO.  Could it mean a THJ dump? I dont know…but if he is what I am hoping….whoever comes back will have a salary and talent level that is a chess piece for the future.  I think we have to give Nico and Baker a chance and hope Cuban does not mess it up. 

The trade was definitely different and unsettling…..are we on a new path? It appears so.  It MIGHT be a big improvement. Lets see what happens……

Plan Powder is definitely dead.  

I think this is a very good take and aligns with what Nico and Cuban are saying.

(02-12-2022, 07:09 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]Let's assume all they do is waive Frank, sign their 1st round pick

My expectation is that both could be gone in a draft night deal this summer.

(02-12-2022, 08:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]My expectation is that both could be gone in a draft night deal this summer.

Don't forget that back on October 28, that Marc Stein said the Mavs have "big plans" for Frank.

(02-12-2022, 09:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Don't forget that back on October 28, that Marc Stein said the Mavs have "big plans" for Frank.

Sure. “could be” though.

Just meaning to double down on the idea that big changes could be coming this summer. That’s my prediction, anyway.

(02-12-2022, 09:25 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Sure. “could be” though.

Just meaning to double down on the idea that big changes could be coming this summer. That’s my prediction, anyway.

All I am suggesting is that we not think of FN as the first casualty in situations. Of course move him and deal him if you need to upgrade the roster, but I don't think he will be a casualty like Moses.

If they waive Frank instead of Burke I am going to through the biggest tantrum this board has ever seen.

(02-12-2022, 09:27 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]All I am suggesting is that we not think of FN as the first casualty in situations. Of course move him and deal him if you need to upgrade the roster, but I don't think he will be a casualty like Moses.

Yeah, I get it, trust me.

All that I am suggesting is that with the kind of changes I think are coming in the very near future, I don’t think anyone is safe. I think decisions are going to be made based on salary matching and not much else.

I don’t think they are trying to get rid of him or anything. I think not going after Dragic pretty much proves that they don’t view him as expendable like Moses.

(02-12-2022, 09:32 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, I get it, trust me.

All that I am suggesting is that with the kind of changes I think are coming in the very near future, I don’t think anyone is safe. I think decisions are going to be made based on salary matching and not much else.

I don’t think they are trying to get rid of him or anything. I think not going after Dragic pretty much proves that they don’t view him as expendable like Moses.

I think "not going after Dragic" tells us nothing, except that they had decided to invest those minutes in SD. Going into next season, if Brunson re-signs, there will still be 16 players with contracts fighting for 15 roster slots (including 1st rounder), and FN hasn't really distinguished himself to any degree.

I think they are likely to lessen the load with one or more deals, but FN's only selling point to the Mavs seems to be cheap contract/theoretical upside. There needs to be more.