MavsBoard

(04-04-2022, 12:01 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]This team is very good.  Our front court could use an infusion of talent at this point but right now this group is playing at a level as high as anyone in the league.  Sometimes this team has some issues getting up for games that are against lesser opponents but we can't ignore how this team has performed when the stakes are high.  

Still interesting to see so many folks with some negative outlooks but as of right now I can't help but ask myself "why not us?" when it comes to getting out of the western conference this year.

The answer that comes to mind is the Suns.  They are really good and a tough matchup for us.  The reason folks want to get the third seed is not have to play this team in the second round.

I think there's still some hope for Chriss. The swarm & switch defense looks to be working well and he's got the right build to run it. Ideal player is probably like Powell's quick feet & athleticism but longer? In terms of physical ability, Chriss is a high lottery talent. We'll see how the defense does in the playoffs of course, but it's bothered pretty much every top tier team faced in the regular season so far. Chriss' issues right now are all mental from what I can tell. Luka is having to point where to be on offense, mental errors on defense etc. So he can't stay on the court. He got here late though. If he still has mental struggles after a full offseason early into next season, then it's probably safe to give up on him.

Hopefully they can get a series win or 2 to get info on how the defensive system is in different matchups. I think there should be a much better idea of what type of center defensively to look for in the offseason after the playoffs are done. On offense, I think the minimum of rim runner lob threat is a given now. Powell's doing a lot of scoring catching passes directly under the basket without a lob as well.

(04-04-2022, 12:35 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The answer that comes to mind is the Suns.  They are really good and a tough matchup for us.  The reason folks want to get the third seed is not have to play this team in the second round.

Yes, absolutely. There's almost no chance that Dallas can beat PHX this season. 

But...I will say that I think the direction they went with the center position after the Porzingis trade gives them a slightly better chance against PHX (and a healthy GS, for that matter) than they would've had. I'm not meaning to "bash" Porzingis, specifically, I just think a high-priced guy in weak drop coverage is a huge issue against those two teams.

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(04-04-2022, 12:37 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Ideal player is probably like Powell's quick feet & athleticism but longer?

Absolutely! Very short list, however.

(04-04-2022, 12:26 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I get that they could find ways to squeeze in another high-minutes center somehow. But as I see it
1 in so doing you are planning to move a center to play another position, and then play him and others in positions that are not their best,
2 iow you have put yourself in a box, planning to have players playing out of position, which is going to lower your ceiling, and
3 in a perimeter- oriented league, you will suffer in the ability to defend in space when playing multiple centers, which you have forced yourself to do

I also think the "add-a-center" thinking is going to be counter-productive cap-wise, because you're going to be layering on a big chunk of salary cost at a position where there are lots of playable bargains to be had. Unless you have an elite player like Jokic or Embiid, it really should be your least-expensive position, not your most.

Maxi has played most of his career as a PF, and he is undersized for a center.  I think you could argue that getting a starting center would allow Maxi to go back to his natural position.  You could also make the argument that DFS makes just as much sense at the 3 as the 4.

Regardless, the biggest hole on this team is rim protection, and the biggest hole in the closing lineup is a legit starting big.  Getting a legit starting center addresses both of those issues.  It could be someone as cheap as Holmes (if he gets his issues cleared up).  Other good options are Turner or Capela.  Gobert would be a costly route to take.  In all of those cases, we could send one of Maxi/Powell out, but I don't think its necessary.

KillerLeft

Jakeospikez Wrote: "[url=https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?pid=132638#pid132638][/url]Ideal player is probably like Powell's quick feet & athleticism but longer?"

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Absolutely! Very short list, however.


Which do you see as the desirable and possibly available suggestions on your very short list?

I think Maxi has the highest chance to be moved this offseason.   I expect Powell to be here for the foreseeable future.    Maxi could work if they found a starting caliber front court player that can also fill in at center.   Although this was before DFS and Bullock have worked so well as the starting wings.   

I don't expect there is any way to move off Bertans, so we will need to make it work here.  There is a world where I think he can be a decent fit.  I don't like him as the third big matched with Maxi and Powell.   So I think the easiest route is upgrade with a better Maxi.  Who that is I am not sure.   But I think that is the cleanest way for improvement.   There is risk there because Maxi does some things really well.   But just looking at options, I think he is the clearest guy they look to upgrade...especially considering DFS and Powell aren't going anywhere and there is no way to move off Bertans.

One of the reasons I have been interested in some of the bigs in this draft is I thought they could be a low cost option to develop to fill the center minutes.  Then I would use our remaining assets to target a PF type to fill out the roster.  I am not really sure if my thoughts are the same with their recent strong play and lineups they have been playing.

For all of those people banging the "trade Maxi" drum, you do know that he is at a low point in his value.  I am not a big fan of trading distressed assets.  Maxi's game has value - here and for other teams.  I would not be interested in trading maxi unless he brings back a clear upgrade.  I would probably wait to see what he has next season as well.  He was playing very well earlier this season, (and in past seasons) and fits JKidd's defensive scheme extremely well with his versatility. Last year, the guy shot 41% from 3 and no one would have dreamed of moving off of him.  This season is an aberration for him - and even then, just on offense.  

I still think that the mavs road to improvement lies through THJ - not that he will bring a huge return, but that when/if we re-sign JB, he will be the rotation player left without a spot.  Trading him (and a pick if necessary), seems to be the way to balance the lineup.  Where is he going to find minutes with 2 ballhandler lineups, and with Josh Green's move into rotational relevance?  Is the two ballhandler, two wing defender, one big a format the mavs want to keep to, or is THJ's injury and the KP mid-season trade making that a necessity?  I think it is the template, and THJ is the one to go - not maxi - especially with Bertans (and his less mobile contract) here to fill the role of designated shooter off the bench.

(04-04-2022, 12:43 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Maxi has played most of his career as a PF, and he is undersized for a center.  I think you could argue that getting a starting center would allow Maxi to go back to his natural position.  You could also make the argument that DFS makes just as much sense at the 3 as the 4.

Regardless, the biggest hole on this team is rim protection, and the biggest hole in the closing lineup is a legit starting big.  Getting a legit starting center addresses both of those issues.  It could be someone as cheap as Holmes (if he gets his issues cleared up).  Other good options are Turner or Capela.  Gobert would be a costly route to take.  In all of those cases, we could send one of Maxi/Powell out, but I don't think its necessary.

Maybe the question is, is Maxi a 4 in Kidd's current schemes? I'm not sure of the answer.

Can't remember which post way up there that I'm responding to, or who wrote it. But the Luka/Powell chemistry has gotten back to the point where the upgrade thought process needs to involve not Powell vs Player Z, but Luka/Powell vs Luka/ Player Z

(04-04-2022, 01:30 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Which do you see as the desirable and possibly available suggestions on your very short list?

My "short list" comment is meant to describe the number of players who can be the type of switchable, quick-feet bigs who I'd judge able to do what Powell is already doing well on defense AND improve on his rim-protection/post defense, along with defensive rebounding. Obviously the list gets even shorter when you factor in what Powell gives this team on offense. 

Off the top of my head, I'd say Adebayo, Williams and JJJ would all be improvements without losing much of what Powell is currently giving the team (though clearly not avaiable). It's possible that Holmes would be, too, but I'm less sure about that than most. I'm honestly not confident he's a good player, at this point, but maybe he's just having a really down year. If so, it would be a good time to target him, so I'll just watch and see what types of teams are interested this summer. 

To be clear, I'm not sure anyone who fits these criteria definitively will be available, which is kind of my whole point. I'm not at all worried about upgrading Powell. Sure, it would be nice, but I don't think it's an emergency situation like many from the board seem to believe. 

I can see some validity in changing course (slightly) to include one stronger, more traditional center for next season, but imho, this only makes sense if the player in question is one of the better players of that type in the league. I suppose I'd be open to Turner, Gobert or Capella to varying degrees, as I can envision ways in which what they bring to the table might offset the negatives that come with being locked into "dinosaur big" mode for portions of each game. But, a player lesser than any of those three (Baynes, Adams, etc, etc) and I think you're in a worse situation than you are right now with Powell/Kleber. And, even with a guy north of the quality line I'm arbitrarily drawing here, I think Powell/Kleber (whoever is left) is still going to be the better option in a lot of situations, so I'm not super thrilled about the idea of having to pay this hypothetical newcomer so much. 

And, to be even more clear about where I stand on this, I would be FINE with an Adams/Baynes type replacing Boban. In fact, I think that should happen, but don't expect it to. But in that scenario, they'd play only slightly more than Boban does, anyway, so it's nothing to get in a huge twist over imho.

(04-04-2022, 02:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Off the top of my head, I'd say Adebayo, Williams and JJJ would all be improvements without losing much of what Powell is currently giving the team

When @"F Gump" asked you the question, I started my wait for your reply, figuring it would be good, and then had the thought "I bet Bam is his first choice"  :-)

(04-04-2022, 02:28 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]"I bet Bam is his first choice" 

You got me, pal. 

I'm a sucker for that guy's game. I love it so much.

(04-04-2022, 02:34 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You got me, pal. 

I'm a sucker for that guy's game. I love it so much.

I also thought, "I wonder if he'll include Rudy G"

You answered that one too

(04-04-2022, 02:39 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]I also thought, "I wonder if he'll include Rudy G"

I share the concerns of Gobert's detractors over his contract and the inevitability that he slows down during the life of it.

But, I also agree with his fans that at his best, in the right situation, he's a difference maker. I think when both sides of the ledger are totaled you kind of have no choice but to give it a try. If it's possible, of course. But, it's a risk. I don't think there's any doubt about it. If it doesn't work, you're right back where you were with Porzingis in some ways.

"Why didn't Gobert finish the game last night?"
"Is Kidd using Gobert right?"
"Do Gobert and Luka get along?"
"Is Gobert happy in Dallas?"
"Who in their right mind is going to take Gobert's contract off of the Mavs' hands?"
Etc, etc, etc.

(04-04-2022, 02:43 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]"Why didn't Gobert finish the game last night?"
"Is Kidd using Gobert right?"
"Do Gobert and Luka get along?"
"Is Gobert happy in Dallas?"
"Who in their right mind is going to take Gobert's contract off of the Mavs' hands?"
Etc, etc, etc.

You just gave me deja vu

Here's an argument against: The center position in the current NBA may not be worth the risks described above, especially when we already have someone starting there who isn't expensive, is a perfect teammate, and has amazing chemistry with Luka.

If you're going to name anybody, might as well go all out. Anthony Davis, Evan Mobley, Jarrett Allen, Giannis. Lesser known name, maybe like Jaxson Hayes.

(04-04-2022, 02:54 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]Anthony Davis, Evan Mobley, Jarrett Allen, Giannis. Lesser known name, maybe like Jaxson Hayes.

Good additions.

I'll acknowledge that Davis might be the perfect name to add, but I want no part of him, personally. I think he's lazy, entitled, oft-injured, unwilling to fight through minor injuries for the sake of the team, void of any leadership and too famous to be led. In short, I don't think he's a winner. I think Lebron hand-picked him, thinking that he (Lebron) could eventually coast a bit in Davis' wake, and now that it's clear that can't happen, I think LAL is in a tense, uncomfortable place.

I admit I don't know Mobley's or Hayes' games enough yet to comment on them. I'll trust you. 

Giannis is THE standard for the type of player I'm talking about, but of course that ship sailed when he signed his extension. They're NEVER going to trade him. 

I think Jarret Allen is pretty interesting, and used to really like him for the Mavs, but I think he has already found a home.

(04-04-2022, 02:54 PM)Jakeospikez Wrote: [ -> ]If you're going to name anybody, might as well go all out. Anthony Davis...

That's not going all out, that's begging for heart ache. He plays less than the center who we just traded.

Yeah I just meant the player tools/skillset. Obviously AD's biggest problem is watching the game in street clothes. He's a superstar when he's actually playing though. Also, the Mavs don't really need a superstar at this position I don't think. They can be great with a high quality roleplayer.

I think this scouting report looks pretty spot on to what the Mavs should be looking for. Hayes is even developing his shot. Maybe someone to keep an eye out for in a couple of years when he's approaching RFA as a possible trade target if he remains underutilized in NO.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/jaxson-hayes/

I'll add another name, though even I admit talking about him is starting feel tedious and ridiculous:

Ben Simmons. 

The NETS seem to be planning to use him exactly the way we many of argued the Mavs could, in theory. It's going to be really interesting to see how it works when he actually plays (if he ever does). 

But, a guy who can hold his own in the paint AND shut down someone like Booker after a switch, 1-on-1? That's the freaking dream.