MavsBoard

(08-20-2021, 05:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]BE PREPARED!!!!!!!!!!

Actually really like the Mavs adding Rubio somehow. Huge fan of his and the fit in DAL.

(08-20-2021, 06:54 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Actually really like the Mavs adding Rubio somehow. Huge fan of his and the fit in DAL.

Here's a man who is prepared ^^^^^

(08-20-2021, 06:54 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Actually really like the Mavs adding Rubio somehow. Huge fan of his and the fit in DAL.

Same, I'd rather have Rubio than Dragic if I had a choice (though I think either would be great for the Mavs, dependent on cost of course)

I apologize in advance for my rudimentary knowledge of the cap, but I had a question on JJ Reddick.

Dragic is still a solid player but for Toronto the concern needs to be is how do they find value back for him at his salary.   Even if he plays well there, it will be tricky to move him and get value back.

So, if our package to Toronto included WCS (expiring at a good #) and Moses Brown (small contract), how much would we need to sign Reddick to receive Goran back?   10 millionish?   I believe he would need to agree and be signed for a three year deal but only the first year needs to be guaranteed, right?   If so, Toronto gets the lesser player but one who has the elite skill everyone is looking for.  So maybe eventually moving Reddick could be easier than moving the 19 million dollar Goran.

They also get a young developmental big in Brown and another tradeable asset in the expiring WCS.

So, is this possible?  Could this be a realistic compromise?  If this is possible, I assume the same offer could be used for Lauri, but Chicago may be a little far for the Reddick family.

(08-21-2021, 08:29 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]So, is this possible?  Could this be a realistic compromise?  If this is possible, I assume the same offer could be used for Lauri, but Chicago may be a little far for the Reddick family.

My gut says no, and it honestly has less to do with location and more to do with the current competitive status of Toronto. I think Reddick is at the age where he'd simply rather retire than play for a young, developing team. My bet is that he'd prefer to play in Dallas than Toronto, and none of us seems confident he'll be back here - just for comparison.

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(08-20-2021, 10:36 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]Same, I'd rather have Rubio than Dragic if I had a choice (though I think either would be great for the Mavs, dependent on cost of course)

Personally, I'd rather have Dragic, since he addresses the problem (lack of offensive creation) much more directly, but I agree there are benefits with Rubio that don't exist with Dragic, and I agree that either would be scores.

(08-20-2021, 10:36 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]Same, I'd rather have Rubio than Dragic if I had a choice (though I think either would be great for the Mavs, dependent on cost of course)

I’d rather have Dragic, but Cleveland would be a good backup option. Nance into the TPE. Rubio for Powell and the rookies that need minutes we don’t have

(08-21-2021, 08:29 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]So, is this possible?  Could this be a realistic compromise?

If Redick agrees, than yes.

(08-21-2021, 08:37 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]but I agree there are benefits with Rubio

I really don't get the Rubio love. Offensively he is a low volume low percentage 3 point shooter who is only effective if he has ball in his hands. Defensively he might be ok, but I doubt it would outweight the offensive bad fit. He is basically Wright/Richardson 3.0 with way worse shooting. 

I think Rubio works next to non playmaking scorer like LaVine or Booker. Doncic is way better PG than Rubio so it makes zero sense to give him the ball a lot. I think Dragic is way better option. When you need defense you sit Dragic and play Bullock/DFS or any other 3D wing. When you need offensive help you play Dragic next to Luka. I guess Dragic can also play decent defense in limited minutes. Rubio will never play decent offense

(08-21-2021, 09:16 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]If Redick agrees, than yes.




I really don't get the Rubio love. Offensively he is a low volume low percentage 3 point shooter who is only effective if he has ball in his hands. Defensively he might be ok, but I doubt it would outweight the offensive bad fit. He is basically Wright/Richardson 3.0 with way worse shooting. 

I think Rubio works next to non playmaking scorer like LaVine or Booker. Doncic is way better PG than Rubio so it makes zero sense to give him the ball a lot. I think Dragic is way better option. When you need defense you sit Dragic and play Bullock/DFS or any other 3D wing. When you need offensive help you play Dragic next to Luka. I guess Dragic can also play decent defense in limited minutes. Rubio will never play decent offense

Disagree. Rubio is on another level as a ballhandler and decision maker. Was a clear net positive on offense in the last three seasons and for most of his career. Just a really smart player that can read the defense and create for others. If the Mavs want to use whatever playmaker they can get in the Wright/Richardson kind of role the name won´t matter. They are better off with a 3&D wing. If they really want to bring in some playmaking Rubio might not be the best shot creator but he is easily one of the best floor generals.
Your proposed situational adjustments are a nice thought but it´s not like the Mavs can make football like offense/defense subs. When it matters most the Mavs will need both.

(08-21-2021, 08:29 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I apologize in advance for my rudimentary knowledge of the cap, but I had a question on JJ Reddick.

Dragic is still a solid player but for Toronto the concern needs to be is how do they find value back for him at his salary.   Even if he plays well there, it will be tricky to move him and get value back.

So, if our package to Toronto included WCS (expiring at a good #) and Moses Brown (small contract), how much would we need to sign Reddick to receive Goran back?   10 millionish?    

$8.64mm

$1.7 + $4.1 +$5.0 + X = $19.44.

(08-21-2021, 11:09 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]$8.64mm

$1.7 + $4.1 +$5.0 + X = $19.44.

Interesting.  That is not a bad number.   Instead of picking up an extra year of Powell, they can either try to move Reddick (does any of the teams in the East have an TPE near this range?) or a buyout would be easier at this range.  Maybe Reddick makes a million or two, and then signs with someone else at the minimum during the season.   Could Dallas even throw in cash in the trade as well?    Not sure any of this is possible and there is some complexity, but if I was Toronto I would probably prefer this avenue over taking on around 10 million of Powell for two years.

(08-21-2021, 01:05 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting.  That is not a bad number.   Instead of picking up an extra year of Powell, they can either try to move Reddick (does any of the teams in the East have an TPE near this range?) or a buyout would be easier at this range.  Maybe Reddick makes a million or two, and then signs with someone else at the minimum during the season.   Could Dallas even throw in cash in the trade as well?    Not sure any of this is possible and there is some complexity, but if I was Toronto I would probably prefer this avenue over taking on around 10 million of Powell for two years.

Much depends on how much tax Dallas is willing to take on...now and in 22/23.  Doing a Dragic trade like that leaves us $5mm under the tax with the potential of using an $11mm TPE.  So, they would probably prefer to send out more in the way of actual salary than creating more salary using Redick.

We are $9mm under the tax for 22/23 and have a draft pick to add plus presumed bumps Brunson and DFS to account for.  The $136mm on the books now accounts for 12 players (Luka, KP, THJ, DP, Bullock, Maxi, Boban, Burke (PO), Green (TO), Brown (NG) and Terry.  If R. Williams is a reasonable model, count on $24mm for Brunson/DFS?  Now we are at $160k plus the pick and are $15mm over the tax.

I go through all of that to say that dealing Powell/Burke/Something minor for expiring Dragic would probably be very attractive from a tax management standpoint.  It gives more room to do other things this season and keeps them within striking distance of getting under the tax a year from now.

(08-21-2021, 09:44 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Disagree. Rubio is on another level as a ballhandler and decision maker. Was a clear net positive on offense in the last three seasons and for most of his career. Just a really smart player that can read the defense and create for others. If the Mavs want to use whatever playmaker they can get in the Wright/Richardson kind of role the name won´t matter. They are better off with a 3&D wing. If they really want to bring in some playmaking Rubio might not be the best shot creator but he is easily one of the best floor generals.
Your proposed situational adjustments are a nice thought but it´s not like the Mavs can make football like offense/defense subs. When it matters most the Mavs will need both.

You didn't actually negate what I said. He is a better floor general than Wright/JRich but is even worse shooter. So every time you play him off ball he will just kill all the spacing for Luka. He can only be effective with ball in his hands and Mavs are not looking for primary PG. I think the primary request for the guard playing next to Luka is that he must be a good shooter. 

As for situational adjustment - I said Dragic can play decent defense in short amount of time, at least I hope so. We can't expect him to do it for 30 minutes per game, but I would hope he could bring another gear for playoffs. I don't think Rubio has another gear for playoffs (if you can't shoot you can't shoot) and his limitations will be even more obvious come playoff time. 

In any case, debate is theoretical, imho. I don't think Cleveland is trading Rubio for Powell (unless of course you add substantial assets).

(08-21-2021, 02:11 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]You didn't actually negate what I said. He is a better floor general than Wright/JRich but is even worse shooter. So every time you play him off ball he will just kill all the spacing for Luka. He can only be effective with ball in his hands and Mavs are not looking for primary PG. I think the primary request for the guard playing next to Luka is that he must be a good shooter. 

As for situational adjustment - I said Dragic can play decent defense in short amount of time, at least I hope so. We can't expect him to do it for 30 minutes per game, but I would hope he could bring another gear for playoffs. I don't think Rubio has another gear for playoffs (if you can't shoot you can't shoot) and his limitations will be even more obvious come playoff time. 

In any case, debate is theoretical, imho. I don't think Cleveland is trading Rubio for Powell (unless of course you add substantial assets).

There is more to playing off ball than just being a shooter. Wright and Richardson both lacked the necessary awareness and court vision to take advantage of the space Luka created.
Rubio certainly showed another gear in the olympics. Dropped 38pts on Jrue Holiday. And in the last FIBA world cup (MVP and finals MVP). Just couldn´t show it in the NBA because he spent most of his career in Minnesota. Based on the two playoffs series he played in the NBA and his performance in international tournaments I would make the case that he plays his best basketball on the biggest stage/ in the biggest moment.

(08-21-2021, 01:05 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting.  That is not a bad number.   Instead of picking up an extra year of Powell, they can either try to move Reddick (does any of the teams in the East have an TPE near this range?) or a buyout would be easier at this range.  Maybe Reddick makes a million or two, and then signs with someone else at the minimum during the season.   Could Dallas even throw in cash in the trade as well?    Not sure any of this is possible and there is some complexity, but if I was Toronto I would probably prefer this avenue over taking on around 10 million of Powell for two years.

I like your idea and don’t think it’s getting enough attention. Maybe cause the board is dead right now. At least DS seemed to take you seriously.

I know one answer to your question is Brooklyn, which is Reddick’s preferred destination. They have an 11.5 million exception from the Dinwidde deal:

https://www.netsdaily.com/2021/8/4/22610...ds-in-2025 

I have always believed the Mavs signed him last year with an eye to getting an asset out of his inevitable, eventual move to the Nets. Rules implicating the hard cap have thwarted, so far, any of my ideas for making that happen. But perhaps sending him to Toronto for a short stint would allow the Nets to avoid that. I dunno.

(08-21-2021, 02:51 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]There is more to playing off ball than just being a shooter. Wright and Richardson both lacked the necessary awareness and court vision to take advantage of the space Luka generated.
Rubio certainly showed another gear in the olympics. Dropped 38pts on Jrue Holiday. And in the last FIBA world cup (MVP and finals MVP). Just couldn´t show it in the NBA because he spent most of his career in Minnesota. Based on the two playoffs series he played in the NBA and his performance in international tournaments I would make the case that he plays his best basketball on the biggest stage/ in the biggest moment.

One good game (where his team convincingly lost) playing as primary creator is not a proof he shines where matters most in a secondary creator role. He got his chance with a good team (Utah) and it didn't work, Utah moved on to Conley. He was decent with Phoenix but CP3 took that same team to a whole different level. I could make a case his playoff series where bad. He did score a bit more points than in regular season but his efficiency was a disaster. Low 40 % EFG in both series, 47 % and 51 % TS. Career playoff shooting % below 40 %, below 30 % from three. 

I will just repeat. I think Rubio is a decent player, I agree he is a good floor general. But I don't think he fits with Mavs next to Luka for the reason above - his bad shooting.