MavsBoard

(06-19-2022, 12:36 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]  Just saying I see it as highly unlikely we spend the TPE AND the TP MLE.

You make a great point. It's one reason why I keep focusing on moves that use the old TPE to create a new TPE, without really bumping salary.

The THJ - for - Holmes/Holiday/37 swap works even better, as it recycles the existing TPE while also trimming several mill off the payroll total at the same time! Or Powell-Holmes is almost payroll neutral in 2022-23.

dirkfansince1998 Wrote:I am by no means and expert but to me it looks like Cuban has cashed in on the Mavs in the last couple of years. Among the league leaders in operating income each year. 




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Yeah Cuban saved a lot of money post championship. It was a horrible basketball strategy, too. He acted like he was competing, but was really not. Even worse he didn´t want to "rebuild" through the draft under this decade long "Dirk compete"-mantra. Dirk is just too good for this world. Dirk put all the butts in the seats and Cuban gave him one poor roster after another. Guys like LeBron or Kobe would have forced Cuban to spend more money or Cuban would have sold tickets to the Monta & Chandler show. Therefore, while I have no delusions about Cuban´s willingness to spend, I also have no sympathy or time for him being cheap.

He had the three best players (Luka, Brunson, DFS) on the team on contracts worth a combined $20M (for three years!!!!) and somehow managed to navigate the team into cap hell.

(06-19-2022, 02:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]My case for signing Jalen Smith to the tax MLE.

I realize he may not want to sign here for the max tax MLE (roughly 3/20), but this is why I think he should be our top target.

1. Asset.  He would be the youngest with most upside option we could sign.  He was a lottery pick just 2 years ago and is already a rotational level player.  We would basically only be paying him a little over a million more than his club option that the Suns waived (which was crazy).  After trading our pick away, it would be a good way to add cost controlled youth with upside.  From a purely asset standpoint, he would be the top choice.

2.  Defensive big wing.  There is a lot of talk of adding a defensive big wing using the tax MLE.  If we add Jalen to the center rotation, then we can slide Maxi down to the 4.  I would argue he is probably a better option than anyone we could get in the market.  An argument could be made that Maxi is probably at his best at the 5 (one I would agree with) and there is a good chance he will spend time there in the playoffs (Jalen might not be ready for primetime, or TDL trade).  But from a wear and tear standpoint it might be better to play most of minutes at the 4 during the regular season.

3.  Wood insurance.  There is a very real chance that Wood does not work out.  Hopefully, if that is the case we can move him at the deadline instead of letting walk at the end of the season.  Assuming Jalen is playing at a rotational level here, that allows us to trade Wood at the TDL for something other than a center.  Maybe that defensive wing like a Crowder or Covington.  Maybe they could even package Wood and Green for Grant.  Having Jalen gives us a lot more options to make that Wood TDL trade without crushing our center depth (like we did with the KP trade).

I prefer Hartenstein for his defense, but I agree with this approach in general. Do the Mavs? I'm doubtful. I hope they at least consider this the backup plan if they can't find a wing.

(06-19-2022, 02:17 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]My case for signing Jalen Smith to the tax MLE.

I realize he may not want to sign here for the max tax MLE (roughly 3/20), but this is why I think he should be our top target.

1. Asset.  He would be the youngest with most upside option we could sign.  He was a lottery pick just 2 years ago and is already a rotational level player.  We would basically only be paying him a little over a million more than his club option that the Suns waived (which was crazy).  After trading our pick away, it would be a good way to add cost controlled youth with upside.  From a purely asset standpoint, he would be the top choice.

2.  Defensive big wing.  There is a lot of talk of adding a defensive big wing using the tax MLE.  If we add Jalen to the center rotation, then we can slide Maxi down to the 4.  I would argue he is probably a better option than anyone we could get in the market.  An argument could be made that Maxi is probably at his best at the 5 (one I would agree with) and there is a good chance he will spend time there in the playoffs (Jalen might not be ready for primetime, or TDL trade).  But from a wear and tear standpoint it might be better to play most of minutes at the 4 during the regular season.

3.  Wood insurance.  There is a very real chance that Wood does not work out.  Hopefully, if that is the case we can move him at the deadline instead of letting walk at the end of the season.  Assuming Jalen is playing at a rotational level here, that allows us to trade Wood at the TDL for something other than a center.  Maybe that defensive wing like a Crowder or Covington.  Maybe they could even package Wood and Green for Grant.  Having Jalen gives us a lot more options to make that Wood TDL trade without crushing our center depth (like we did with the KP trade).

I agree with pretty much everything you said. I was a big fan of Jalen Smith leading up to his draft class, he should be a priority for the Mavs, especially since we no longer have a 1st rounder. 

I would also say he serves as Maxi Kleber insurance as well; Maxi is getting older and worn down the last 2 seasons; Maxi has 1 year left on his deal (which is non-guaranteed iirc) so if he's not extended, he's a FA next summer. 

I'd dump Powell for Jalen Smith in a heartbeat. Is a sign-and-trade with the Pacers (c'mon Carlisle you owe us) a possibility if the TPMLE is not in the cards?

(06-19-2022, 02:32 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with pretty much everything you said. I was a big fan of Jalen Smith leading up to his draft class, he should be a priority for the Mavs, especially since we no longer have a 1st rounder. 

I would also say he serves as Maxi Kleber insurance as well; Maxi is getting older and worn down the last 2 seasons; Maxi has 1 year left on his deal (which is non-guaranteed iirc) so if he's not extended, he's a FA next summer. 

I'd dump Powell for Jalen Smith in a heartbeat. Is a sign-and-trade with the Pacers (c'mon Carlisle you owe us) a possibility if the TPMLE is not in the cards?

We can't S&T a player in and I'm not sure Indy could sign him to a contract to trade to us anyways (don't have bird rights).

Maxi has a team option.  I would be really surprised if the Mavs don't exercise that, especially given how he just played in the playoffs.  His defense and position versatility is too valuable even if he can't play big minutes.

(06-19-2022, 02:18 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]He had the three best players (Luka, Brunson, DFS) on the team on contracts worth a combined $20M (for three years!!!!) and somehow managed to navigate the team into cap hell.

A lot of that had to do with Carlisle sabotaging Brunson. Carlisle favored veteran guards to supplant Brunson like Delon Wright, Josh Richardson, Trey Burke, Seth, THJ, etc. Lots of wasted $$$ and 2nd rounders on those guys.

Thinking more about guys who fit next to Wood, I really think we will want someone like a younger Maxi Kleber, or PJ Tucker. Someone with a lot of defensive versatility, who can capably guard the perimeter while providing some help-side shotblocking. So, how about P.J. Washington? I'd offer Josh Green and Dwight Powell for P.J. Washington and Kelly Oubre Jr. If we can follow that up with successfully re-signing Brunson, add Dragic, and then trade THJ for something like Favors and Ja. Green, the depth chart now looks like this:

Luka / Dinwiddie / Dragic
Brunson / Ntilikina / Pinson
DFS / Bullock / Oubre
Washington / Bertans / Ja. Green
Wood / Maxi / Favors

Primary rotation in bold. Lots of versatility and veteran depth there.

(06-19-2022, 09:40 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking more about guys who fit next to Wood, I really think we will want someone like a younger Maxi Kleber, or PJ Tucker. Someone with a lot of defensive versatility, who can capably guard the perimeter while providing some help-side shotblocking. So, how about P.J. Washington? I'd offer Josh Green and Dwight Powell for P.J. Washington and Kelly Oubre Jr. If we can follow that up with successfully re-signing Brunson, add Dragic, and then trade THJ for something like Favors and Ja. Green, the depth chart now looks like this:

Luka / Dinwiddie / Dragic
Brunson / Ntilikina / Pinson
DFS / Bullock / Oubre
Washington / Bertans / Ja. Green
Wood / Maxi / Favors

Primary rotation in bold. Lots of versatility and veteran depth there.

Josh Green does not have nearly enough value to land PJ Washington.

(06-19-2022, 09:46 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Green does not have nearly enough value to land PJ Washington.

You're forgetting who owns the Hornets. MJ loves gifting us trade wins.

I think we could see PJ Tucker be the coveted 3rd defensive wing brought in. Lot of noise there. Connections make sense.

(06-19-2022, 09:56 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]I think we could see PJ Tucker be the coveted 3rd defensive wing brought in. Lot of noise there. Connections make sense.

Would require a multi year deal. Otherwise PJ could simply opt in. Right now he makes slightly more than the taxMLE Dallas could offer. Are the Mavs willing to pay 3/20 for his age 37-39 seasons?

(06-19-2022, 10:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]3/20 for his age 37-39 seasons

Yuck. Yuck. Yuck.

(06-19-2022, 10:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Would require a multi year deal. Otherwise PJ could simply opt in. Right now he makes slightly more than the taxMLE Dallas could offer. Are the Mavs willing to pay 3/20 for his age 37-39 seasons?

Mark’s all in. The new 5-member MBT (Kidd, Nico, Fin, Sween, and, of course, Mark) are wanting proven vets for the 2 other spots (with Pinson taking the 3rd). Tucker and Avery Bradley are the favorites.

3/20 math:

= 6.66 per

6.66/stretch waive = 1.33 per after one year?

correct my bad math.

Mavs split KP into two smaller contracts with more term.  Could they do the reverse of that while offering shooting to 76ers around Embiid and Simmons?

THJ and Bertans for Harris

Sign Smith or Hartenstein for TP-MLE

Sign Dragic for minimum

Luka, Dinwiddie
Brunson, Dragic, Frank
DFS, Bullock, Green
Harris, Maxi
Wood, Hartenstein/Smith, Powell

Harris is overpaid but he could at least be an overpaid starter as opposed to an overpaid bench player like THJ and Bertans.

I didn't think Harris fit before, but I really don't think he fits with Wood.

Lots of talk about finding the defensive wing, center, and even the direction of the roster.

So far when it comes to a defensive wing like others have said it's going to be really hard to find any sort of consistent minutes for this new guy with Hardaway and even Green on the roster. 

We've done some breakdowns before but I want to give a rough restatement before we talk about adding this wing we need to cut minutes anyways. 

Luka(35), JB (30), Dinwiddie (27), Bullock (30), DFS (33), Maxi (25), Wood (28-30?) is 210 minutes there already. We have 38 mins to split among Green, THJ, Powell, Bertans, and Frank. Add in the supposed Dragic connection as well. Assume Powell, Bertans, and Frank and even Dragic are DNP's every night unless there's an injury report, that's still just 19 mins a game for both Green and THJ. Not ideal. 

Getting another guy to fill this wing role just isn't going to happen with that kind of minute distribution. Especially if we're trying to develop Green into something more, which will require minutes. Looking at the fact the Mavs stated they're looking for a wing still, this feels like it almost guarantees that we're going to trade THJ to me.

But onto a list of guys that I really like for the wing we're supposedly looking for:

• Joe Ingles-Dude is a vet, is savvy, and has connections on the team already. This hinges on him being ready to start the next season healthy, and the jury is out if he can even still perform, but I think he can be had for the TPMLE and he brings the feistiness every team needs.
  
• PJ Tucker- kind of a pipe dream, he's the ideal guy. Others have already mentioned how we'd need to money-whip him for it to make sense. I'm honestly ok with throwing 3/20 at him as long as he comes here.
  
• Kyle Anderson- Slowmo as a 3rd wing off the bench is a luxury. He's long, solid defender, that can sometimes hit a three. We could do worse. 
  
• Either of the Martin twins- both are solid forwards that are fine riding a bench. And both could probably be had for a minimum contract
  
• Thad Young- Another ideal fit. I really like him next to Wood as he can guard the perimeter and even bigger bodies.
  
• Nic Batum- Another pipedream that might be already dead given that he's already stated how he wants to stay with the Clips, but figured I'd mention him here to cover the bases. 
  

One trade target I think that could make sense is Josh Hart. Dude is a rebounding machine and is fine coming off the bench. Portland is desperate for talent in their weird 1 year rebuild plan, and Timmy would make sense next to Dame there. This mostly is predicated on the idea that POR is going to have a tough time rebuilding on the fly and would be motivated to accumulate as much above average talent as possible when they inevitably miss on all the big fish. 


I also am incredibly intrigued by Dan's idea of splitting either THJ or SD into 2 smaller contracts in an attempt to save money. I think that's a viable strategy and am sort of convinced the next move will mimic the general framework of that idea. I don't think Dinwiddie is realistically available though, as I think he's core to what the Mavs are trying to do and there aren't much better creators available to replace him right now. 


THJ for Hart works straight up, and saves the Mavs 7 mil in the process. Getting Hart gets the Mavs their defensive minded wing, and allows the TP-MLE to be used on a center, whoever that may be. This move also maintains the amount of current roster spots available, thus letting us keep Pinson, and add the elusive Slovenian Dragon the Mavs have been hunting for the last 2 years.

Josh Hart would be great but not sure Portland takes THJ when they already have a lot of bad perimeter defenders.

I like Kyle Anderson.

(06-20-2022, 01:08 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Josh Hart

He would be fantastic.

(06-20-2022, 01:08 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]THJ for Hart works straight up, and saves the Mavs 7 mil in the process.

This makes a lot of sense. 

I don't think the Mavs make another trade that doesn't save money, which this would do. Also, it's been laid out how little playing time there is for all 3 of THJ/Green/Frank as the roster stands - so adding a 'Wing', without one outgoing, seems unlikely as well.